Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

[catharina]

Once again, if Trayvon had been left alone, then he would be fine. Zimmerman was an instigator. His instigation didn’t stop at mere following from an SUV with a loaded gun. It stopped when an innocent person was killed. The media is not stirring racial tensions. There are racial issues in this country, and they are being reported. Zimmerman is being called a white Hispanic because one of his parents is Caucasian, while the other is Hispanic. I have not heard that Trayvon had a history of stealing and drug abuse, but even if that is true, it has nothing to do with this story. He did not deserve to be shot for any past misdoings. Zimmerman did not know anything of his history when this event took place. If the media is reporting that Trayvon engaged in drug use and stealing, then they are trying to shift focus from the crux of the story, and that is horrible reporting. I am sickened an appalled that you say this 17-year-old was likely to blame for his death. Listen to the 911 call, where you hear him scream for help in the background after he has been shot. Then listen to the silence. It’s the silence of an innocent death, and a moral human being should feel sadness when they hear it. I personally felt sickened.

I agree with you, 100%.
A child is DEAD. A future has been lost.

 

[Pork_Roll]

Listen to the 911 call, where you hear him scream for help in the background after he has been shot. Then listen to the silence. It’s the silence of an innocent death, and a moral human being should feel sadness when they hear it. I personally felt sickened.

One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him — and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest at very close range, according to authorities.

When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.

Guess what, that wasn’t Trayvon but Zimmerman. Trayvon’s death was tragic, but all evidence is that it was his fault. That’s why Zimmerman is still a free man.

 

[catharina]

Guess what, that wasn’t Trayvon but Zimmerman. Trayvon’s death was tragic, but all evidence is that it was his fault. That’s why Zimmerman is still a free man.

Nothing can change the fact
that Zimmerman initiated this horror.

Zimmerman, and only Zimmerman.

 

[Et_Cetera]

Nothing can change the fact
that Zimmerman intiated this horror.

Zimmerman, and only Zimmerman.

Exactly. This is the essential piece of the story. Zimmerman initiated this. He followed Trayvon in his SUV with a loaded gun. The police force that he called 46 times in the previous year told him not to follow Trayvon. He defied those orders and continued to follow him. If Trayvon fought back against Zimmerman and perhaps got a few punches in, then he had every right to. Trayvon was defending himself against a pursuer. If Zimmerman had left him alone, then Trayvon would be alive and Zimmerman wouldn’t have been punched or fought back against.

In regard to the 911 call:
A police officer “corrected” a key witness. “The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help.” [ABC News]

Zimmerman pursued Martin against the explicit instructions of the police dispatcher:
Dispatcher: “Are you following him?”
Zimmerman: “Yeah”
Dispatcher: “OK, we don’t need you to do that.”
[Orlando Sentinel]

Martin’s English teacher described him as “as an A and B student who majored in cheerfulness.” [Orlando Sentinel]

 

[catharina]

Exactly. This is the essential piece of the story. Zimmerman initiated this. He followed Trayvon in his SUV with a loaded gun. The police force that he called 46 times in the previous year told him not to follow Trayvon. He defied those orders and continued to follow him. If Trayvon fought back against Zimmerman and perhaps got a few punches in, then he had every right to. Trayvon was defending himself against a pursuer. If Zimmerman had left him alone, then Trayvon would be alive and Zimmerman wouldn’t have been punched or fought back against.

In regard to the 911 call:
A police officer “corrected” a key witness. “The officer told the witness, a long-time teacher, it was Zimmerman who cried for help, said the witness. ABC News has spoken to the teacher and she confirmed that the officer corrected her when she said she heard the teenager shout for help.” [ABC News]

Zimmerman pursued Martin against the explicit instructions of the police dispatcher:
Dispatcher: “Are you following him?”
Zimmerman: “Yeah”
Dispatcher: “OK, we don’t need you to do that.”
[Orlando Sentinel]

Martin’s English teacher described him as “as an A and B student who majored in cheerfulness.” [Orlando Sentinel]

It stuns me that some people aren’t appalled by these facts.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Trayvon was walking in his father’s neighborhood and minding his own business. He was followed by Zimmerman, even after the police instructed Zimmerman to stop following him. Even if Trayvon did fight back, he had the right to defend himself. After all, he was the one who was being pursued. Zimmerman was the sole instigator. Trayvon had no weaponry on him and was physically smaller than Zimmerman. Zimmerman was not in danger, and he murdered an innocent person. This story sickens me. That people are defending the shooter and blaming the victim makes me lose faith in this country. I am a middle class white person, and I recognize that Zimmerman was completely in the wrong.

YOu should also recognize that you got the reported facts completely wrong too.

 

[Et_Cetera]

YOu should also recognize that you got the reported facts completely wrong too.

Which of my facts, specifically, are incorrect? I got them completely wrong? As in all of my facts are wrong? Nah, they’re not. Come on. Zimmerman initiated contact. That is the key piece of the story here. I won’t be back on this forum until tomorrow afternoon, and I’m sure there will be more replies, but I must say that I am disturbed by what I’m reading in here. Is this a Christian forum or a Republican one? Catholicism is supposed to be pro-life.

I shouldn’t have checked this thread again right before bed. Now I’m all riled up again.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

This is the last thing that I will post on this topic. This whole thing has come down to speculation, race baiting, baseless accusations, and hyperbole. I will wait until the people who are duly appointed under the law make a decision on what happened and what happens next. I am semi-guilty of feeding the frenzy and if it is going to stop, it has to stop somewhere. For me, it will stop with me. I’ve posted an articule that expresses exactly my feelings on the subject.

lewrockwell.com/sowell/sowell80.1.html

For the rest of you, have a good time with this topic. I just hope you remember that he who screams loudest isn’t always right.

 

[pnewton]

Guess what, that wasn’t Trayvon but Zimmerman. Trayvon’s death was tragic, but all evidence is that it was his fault.

Not all.

 

[GaryTaylor]

This is the last thing that I will post on this topic. This whole thing has come down to speculation, race baiting, baseless accusations, and hyperbole. I will wait until the people who are duly appointed under the law make a decision on what happened and what happens next. I am semi-guilty of feeding the frenzy and if it is going to stop, it has to stop somewhere. For me, it will stop with me. I’ve posted an articule that expresses exactly my feelings on the subject.

lewrockwell.com/sowell/sowell80.1.html

For the rest of you, have a good time with this topic. I just hope you remember that he who screams loudest isn’t always right.

You know what Scott I respect your opinion, and I probly shouldn’t even even be discussing this issue with a son exactly 17. So if I said anything offensive my heart felt apology.

Its my opinion though the problem existed long before this fatal night. And certainly the young man was way out of line. However, that man was in way over his head long before he stepped into his vehicle that fatal night.

You know as much as I am a firm advocate of the right to bear arms. Situations like this certainly make me question the whole procedure before we as a state or country are impowering people with firearms.

I guess the magnitude of this responsibility weighs heavy on me.

 

[pnewton]

You know what Scott I respect your opinion, and I probly shouldn’t even even be discussing this issue with a son exactly 17. …I guess the magnitude of this responsibility weighs heavy on me.

Many of us are too close on this, seeing in this young man our own children. Even the well-behaved can be victims of prejudice and violence just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It may not be right, but I do put an emphasis on appearance and the importance of not looking like a hoodlum, not because it is right, but because it is prudent. There are too many Zimmerman’s out there that will judge you guilty based on your dress, appearance or skin color. Two of these are controllable.

 

[GaryTaylor]

It may not be right, but I do put an emphasis on appearance and the importance of not looking like a hoodlum, not because it is right, but because it is prudent. There are too many Zimmerman’s out there that will judge you guilty based on your dress, appearance or skin color. Two of these are controllable.

Exactly right.

 

[SamH]

He defied those orders and continued to follow him. If Trayvon fought back against Zimmerman and perhaps got a few punches in, then he had every right to. Trayvon was defending himself against a pursuer.

Again, there is nothing that supports that claim. The transcript of the phone call and an eye witness confirms that when he was told “You don’t need to do that” he complied and returned to his vehicle. Complying with that request is probably what got Trayvon killed. When Zimmerman turned his back to go to his vehicle Trayvon saw it as an opportunity to sneak up and attack him.

 

[johnnyjones]

I have no idea if he stepped aside when advised to do so.
It has not been publicized. Maybe you have a secret news source?

Well it’s about time you said YOU HAVE NO IDEA IF HE STEPPED ASIDE instead of placing blame. I’m going by what the man said, (operator)- "we don’t need you to do that (Zimmerman) “OK”. The burden is on you to prove the shooting wasn’t provoked.

 

[57classic]

The unfortunate conclusion of this, regardless of what any or all evidence concludes is this: race riots, more people killed and Obama being re-elected because of his race alone, again.

BTW, I haven’t heard anyone condem the Black Panthers for the “dead or alive” reward they have put on Zimmerman’s head. Yesterday I caught the tail end of a rant mentioning a million dollars. Anybody here want to defend that?

 

[pnewton]

BTW, I haven’t heard anyone condem the Black Panthers for the “dead or alive” reward they have put on Zimmerman’s head

It was condemned. This is a very long thread, a continuation of one that already topped the 1000 mark.

 

[Sarabande]

As more information comes out on this case, I have decided to try to not make judgements until all the facts come out and it goes to trial. It is a tragedy no matter which way you look at it. Bad choices were obviously made, leading to the tragedy of a young man being killed.

I am not appreciating the media on both sides of the issue. There is too much sensationalism going on and the media seems to be focusing too much on race, rather than two humans and those related to these people whose lives will be forever changed… especially that of Trayvon whose life is now a memory. I do agree that using the term “white hispanic” is strange, just because his father is caucasion. It’s like calling anyone who is racially mixed with caucasion, “white”, even if they don’t look “white” or vice versa… when it suits their purposes. As racially mixed, myself, I know this all too well.

“White Hispanic” didn’t need to be mentioned, just as it would be unneeded to describe the victim as African-American or Black in the news. To me, using that term by the media was just a way to stir up more debate and controversy and possibly more violence. It has caused people to emotionally shoot from the hip, so-to-speak even more so. At the same time, I do understand the emotions. It upsets me that a young man was killed, but not because he was black and the person who shot him was not as brown, but because he lost his life and his family will be forever changed. The media should be solely focusing on the tragedy rather than bring in the color of those involved.

I just pray for all of them… Martin, Zimmerman, their families, friends and those who are working on the case and who will be involved in a trial. Anyway, that is all I will contribute to the discussion.

 

[Havard]

As more information comes out on this case, I have decided to try to not make judgements until all the facts come out and it goes to trial. It is a tragedy no matter which way you look at it. Bad choices were obviously made, leading to the tragedy of a young man being killed.

I am not appreciating the media on both sides of the issue. There is too much sensationalism going on and the media seems to be focusing too much on race, rather than two humans and those related to these people whose lives will be forever changed… especially that of Trayvon whose life is now a memory. I do agree that using the term “white hispanic” is strange, just because his father is caucasion. It’s like calling anyone who is racially mixed with caucasion, “white”, even if they don’t look “white” or vice versa… when it suits their purposes. As racially mixed, myself, I know this all too well.

“White Hispanic” didn’t need to be mentioned, just as it would be unneeded to describe the victim as African-American or Black in the news. To me, using that term by the media was just a way to stir up more debate and controversy and possibly more violence. It has caused people to emotionally shoot from the hip, so-to-speak even more so. At the same time, I do understand the emotions. It upsets me that a young man was killed, but not because he was black and the person who shot him was not as brown, but because he lost his life and his family will be forever changed. The media should be solely focusing on the tragedy rather than bring in the color of those involved.

I just pray for all of them… Martin, Zimmerman, their families, friends and those who are working on the case and who will be involved in a trial. Anyway, that is all I will contribute to the discussion.

Here, here. :clapping:

 

[ringil]

The unfortunate conclusion of this, regardless of what any or all evidence concludes is this: race riots, more people killed and Obama being re-elected because of his race alone, again.

BTW, I haven’t heard anyone condem the Black Panthers for the “dead or alive” reward they have put on Zimmerman’s head. Yesterday I caught the tail end of a rant mentioning a million dollars. Anybody here want to defend that?

I personally called the New Black Panther Party (which is not the historic party but a tiny fringe group) racist and anti-semitic. I also stated that they are seeking to incite violence through their irresponsible commentary.

This fringe group’s response, nor the bombastic comments by Sharpton do not characterize the calls for justice in this case. Focussing on this dynamic by the some segments in this issue is equally race baiting.

It is them saying “look at that mob! Look how they act? Fear them!”

Most folks (72% of Americans) simply want this case investigated properly, as it was not done initially.

 

[Seamus_L]

Zimmerman supposedly called 911, 46 times in the last year, but that is not as unreasonable as it sounds when you take into consideration the fact that there were 8 break ins in the area in the last few months.
I'm still trying to understand what Zimmerman did that was so wrong by tailing Martin (provided that he took no other action) Last year, we had a suspicious man around my girlfriend's home. He was seen standing in front of her house a couple of times, and on another occasion, I saw him as he trespassed across the back of the property before disappearing into some adjacent woods. So the following week I spotted him in the area and began following him in my car, with no other intent but to find out where he lived, and nothing else, and I was not armed. He probably never even noticed me, but I lost him when he went on to another property, where I later learned he did not reside. Still, I don't think my actions were in anyway illegal and I made no effort to confront him.