Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

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To be totally honest here-----
And as has been pointed out before-----

Zimmeman says “OK” after being told not to engage the suspect----may of his friends and others take that as a sign he WAS following directions to not engage the suspect.

We may need to get back to the eyewitness testimony in this. If there is any. Also to doublecheck Zimmeman’s story and see if it is consistent.

Many are saying it has not been consistent. Nancy Grace had one of the Martin family lawyers on last night saying there was evidence that GZ’s story had changed at least three times. Which should be investigated.
Also, it needs to be looked at whether the police ignored and “covered-up” the fact that Zimmerman had been inconsistent in his story and whether they checked ALL of the witness’s veracity.

Whichever way you look at it, the police dropped the ball here. They closed the case before getting all the facts.
The cops may have looked at GZ’s face and condition, listened to the eyewitness and saw self defense. I guess some people just believe no matter what that GZ walked right up to TM and shot him mob style in the back of the head . Doesn’t fit.
 
Well, no. There’s no evidence that they closed the case. They simply didn’t make an arrest that night. It’s a safe bet that they took his gun away for evidence, so he presumably wasn’t going to be a danger to the community for a little while; go ahead and marshall your evidence before presenting it to the prosecutor.

Once you arrest him, the speedy-trial laws kick in, and you no longer have the luxury of gathering all the evidence you need. The clock is ticking.

So: gather the evidence first, then start the clock.
True as well.

Would not surprise me in the least if the police are waiting for the “right time” to make an arrest. 👍

Personally, (IMO, of course) I hope they DO. 👍
 
The cops may have looked at GZ’s face and condition, listened to the eyewitness and saw self defense. I guess some people just believe no matter what that GZ walked right up to TM and shot him mob style in the back of the head . Doesn’t fit.
I personally have never thought that, Johnny.

Can you at least admit that not all the angles were covered here?

It may be also, I guess, that I tend to not trust the police as much as you. Maybe I’m being too conspiratorial here. But simply, I just feel that the ball was dropped in some way here and things were ignored. So basically because me and millions of others say this should be investigated that we are being “divisive” and “outrageous?”

You probably lean towards GZ being innocent. I don’t know. Maybe I’m wrong. If so, I apologize.
I tend to lean towards GZ not telling all of the story and maybe doing something he should not have.

Can you AT LEAST admit there has to be a THOROUGH INVESTIGATION about this?
 
The cops may have looked at GZ’s face and condition, listened to the eyewitness and saw self defense. I guess some people just believe no matter what that GZ walked right up to TM and shot him mob style in the back of the head . Doesn’t fit.
I agree that it doesn’t make a lot of sense. On the other hand, why would Trayvon initiate aggression?

I don’t feel like it makes sense that either attacked the other based on the evidence that’s been leaked out. That said, odder things have happened. 🤷
 
I agree that it doesn’t make a lot of sense. On the other hand, why would Trayvon initiate aggression?

I don’t feel like it makes sense that either attacked the other based on the evidence that’s been leaked out. That said, odder things have happened. 🤷
On the other hand, why would Trayvon initiate aggression?
That’s what I’ve been wondering and stating here. 👍

OTOH------like you said, odder things have happened. 🤷

Who knows, ultimately. Weeeeeeird.
 
I personally have never thought that, Johnny.

Can you at least admit that not all the angles were covered here?

It may be also, I guess, that I tend to not trust the police as much as you. Maybe I’m being too conspiratorial here. But simply, I just feel that the ball was dropped in some way here and things were ignored. So basically because me and millions of others say this should be investigated that we are being “divisive” and “outrageous?”

You probably lean towards GZ being innocent. I don’t know. Maybe I’m wrong. If so, I apologize.
I tend to lean towards GZ not telling all of the story and maybe doing something he should not have.

Can you AT LEAST admit there has to be a THOROUGH INVESTIGATION about this?
Yes , this should be investigated intensely. Too many hands is not good either though. A special prosecutor and a grand jury to settle it. That’s how the law works. I don’t lean towards Zimmerman, I lean towards facts and common sense. Zimmerman may be as guilty as you no what, but there is just not enough knowledge yet to say GZ just pulled the trigger for no reason. Thats the crux of the case, motive. I don’t see premeditation to commit murder. That will have to be proven.
 
Following his logic and the fact that perception CAN be subjective, though…that is what YOU interpret the “OK” as. We don’t know what Ole Zimmie meant by “OK.” Open to a lot of speculations and interpretations. Unfortunately. :o

And what he did immediately after saying “OK.” There needs to be rechecking and verification of that. What DID he mean by “OK?”
Thing is, I agree with EasterJoy. This is so convlouted and subjective we will probably never know.

Not circularity------just allowing to for the subjectivity of the interpretation and looking at it from ALL POVs.👍
Right, he said “OK”. But to assume that GZ did more than what he said is wrong to.
 
That’s what I’ve been wondering and stating here. 👍

OTOH------like you said, odder things have happened. 🤷

Who knows, ultimately. Weeeeeeird.
What makes matters worse is that our minds have this urge (instinct?) to fill in gaps with conjecture, and clearly that doesn’t help.

It’s entirely possible that we may never know the answer, regarding why aggression was really initiated. 😦
 
Yes , this should be investigated intensely. Too many hands is not good either though. A special prosecutor and a grand jury to settle it. That’s how the law works. I don’t lean towards Zimmerman, I lean towards facts and common sense. Zimmerman may be as guilty as you no what, but there is just not enough knowledge yet to say GZ just pulled the trigger for no reason. Thats the crux of the case, motive. I don’t see premeditation to commit murder. That will have to be proven.
You know, I agree with you-------whatever happened, this was NOT premeditated. And I don’t think most of the people involved (including the Martin family) are implying that.

Could have been manslaughter------one of the initially detectives apparently thought so and wanted GZ charged-----according to some sources.

But yeah----most folks I know are NOT implying premediated murder----except maybe Al Sharpton’s opportunistic little mind and the paranoid racist mindset of the Black Panthers.🤷

OTOH--------just because it may not be first-degree murder does not mean something illegal and wrong did not happen. :)😛

Maybe involuntary manslaughter?
Well, I’ll just let the PTB determine what that may be. And I hope they do.👍
 
The only problem with that version is that doesn’t explain how they got back to GZ’s truck. If the “fight” happened a couple blocks away from his truck it would match the story better than GZs.
Good point. If Z kept following M, as M’s girlfriend claims, how the heck did they get back to Z’s truck?
The problem I have with the girlfriends account is that the account was given to the family lawyer, rather than the police. Last I read/heard she had not made a statement to the police. So she hasn’t been questioned about the account.
So, if this account is not a true testimony given to police, that makes it practically useless. I would want to hear what she said to police, not what she said to Martin’s family lawyer.
 
What makes matters worse is that our minds have this urge (instinct?) to fill in gaps with conjecture, and clearly that doesn’t help.

It’s entirely possible that we may never know the answer, regarding why aggression was really initiated. 😦
Good point. But maybe like T. Brawley and the Duke lacross cases we will find out over a period of years. Unfortunately by then the damage is done.
 
What makes matters worse is that our minds have this urge (instinct?) to fill in gaps with conjecture, and clearly that doesn’t help.

It’s entirely possible that we may never know the answer, regarding why aggression was really initiated. 😦
That would be horrible-----not for me and others, but for the Martin family. 😦

Hopefully they can get some sort of answers and closure from this.

I pray for everybody involved in this. May we learn from this and this help make us a better nation and better Christians. Through the prayers of the Mother of God, have mercy on us and save us. Amen.:signofcross:
 
Good point. If Z kept following M, as M’s girlfriend claims, how the heck did they get back to Z’s truck?

So, if this account is not a true testimony given to police, that makes it practically useless. I would want to hear what she said to police, not what she said to Martin’s family lawyer.
Yes-------she needs to talk to the police.

Indeed.

And QUICKLY.
 
Following his logic and the fact that perception CAN be subjective, though…that is what YOU interpret the “OK” as. We don’t know what **Ole Zimmie **meant by “OK.” Open to a lot of speculations and interpretations. Unfortunately. :o

And what he did immediately after saying “OK.” There needs to be rechecking and verification of that. What DID he mean by “OK?”
Thing is, I agree with EasterJoy. This is so convlouted and subjective we will probably never know.

Not circularity------just allowing to for the subjectivity of the interpretation and looking at it from ALL POVs.👍
ok means he’s agreeable to what is being said to him. it’s pretty plain english. now if you want to say that he conveyed that he was agreeing with the dispatcher and then went ahead and did the the opposite of what he agreed that is another thing, but where’s your proof. you never got back to the first question i asked you.

also, (i could have misread you) but you and many others seem to think this is about racism. again, i’ve listened to the tapes and with all my heart, as God is my witness, i believe he is saying punks. the world is after him for racism when we have no evidence of that, yet what we do have is evidence that he was not a racist.

let’s turn this around to make a point. you just called zimmerman, *Ole Zimmie *. what is with the ole? are you trying to make a derogatory mexican or spanish joke? now we can all accuse you of being racist. let’s bombard the media telling everyone that you are racist because you used the term ole in front of zimmerman’s name. what do you think all hispanics are from mexico or spain? what about cubans? let’s join the mob’s chant and bombard the media so your life is now threatened.

see how that works? obviously i don’t think you are racist, but i was just making a point that it is not very charitable to accuse someone of that without any good evidence as the repercussions of being labeled such are incredibly severe.

edit: i removed the word crucifying as it was over the top and a poor word choice.
 
The problem I have with the girlfriends account is that the account was given to the family lawyer, rather than the police. Last I read/heard she had not made a statement to the police. So she hasn’t been questioned about the account.
Don’t you think there’s a good chance she’d be biased in her account?
 
You know, I agree with you-------whatever happened, this was NOT premeditated. And I don’t think most of the people involved (including the Martin family) are implying that.
Contrast this to the 13-year old Allen Coon’s case in Kansas City. The boy was attacked on the porch of his home as he was coming home from school, was doused with gasoline, and set on fire. That was clearly a pre-meditated attack, yet the public’s attention is captivated by the Trayvon Martin case, and not many people are paying attention to the vicious, hate-motivated events that took place in Kansas City.
 
Good point. But maybe like T. Brawley and the Duke lacross cases we will find out over a period of years. Unfortunately by then the damage is done.
Another reason not to rush to prosecute… there’s no statute of limitations:

2011 Florida Statutes, §775.15(1): “A prosecution for a capital felony, a life felony, or a felony that resulted in a death may be commenced at any time.”

Underline added, for emphasis.

Once a man is acquitted, he can’t be tried again for the same crime (double jeopardy). So do it right the first time!
 
ok means he’s agreeable to what is being said to him. it’s pretty plain english. now if you want to say that he conveyed that he was agreeing with the dispatcher and then went ahead and did the the opposite of what he agreed that is another thing, but where’s your proof. you never got back to the first question i asked you.

also, you seem to be so sure this is about racism. again, i’ve listened to the tapes and with all my heart, as God is my witness, i believe he is saying punks. the world is crucifying him for racism when we have no evidence of that, yet what we do have is evidence that he was not a racist.

let’s turn this around to make a point. you just called zimmerman, *Ole Zimmie *. what is with the ole? are you trying to make a derogatory mexican or spanish joke? now we can all accuse you of being racist. let’s bombard the media telling everyone that you are racist because you used the term ole in front of zimmerman’s name. what do you think all hispanics are from mexico or spain? what about cubans? let’s join the mob’s chant and bombard the media so your life is now threatened.

see how that works? obviously i don’t think you are racist, but i was just making a point that it is not very charitable to accuse someone of that without any good evidence as the repercussions of being labeled such are incredibly severe.
Any “proof” that comes of this will be found out by the DA assigned to the case. I’m sure she will be be thorough.
And if it turns out that it was really a “tragic accident” and/or self-defense. I will be the first one to accept this and be the first one to admit this here. I just want an investigation that will be acceptable for EVERYONE, particularly the Martin family.

BTW—

It’s very unintentionally ironic what you said about “Ole”-------
Since I happen to be of Hispanic descent. 😃
Don’t mention it here, because I consider it irrelevant to my faith and what I have to say to folks here. And yes, I know you did not mean that as a racist insult. 👍

Just thought it funny.

LOL.
 
Another reason not to rush to prosecute… there’s no statute of limitations:

2011 Florida Statutes, §775.15(1): “A prosecution for a capital felony, a life felony, or a felony that resulted in a death may be commenced at any time.”

Once a man is acquitted, he can’t be tried again for the same crime (double jeopardy).
As you probably know the rush to judgement has begun. Enter -Al Sharpton, New Black Panthers, Spike Lee. It’s a mess.
 
As you probably know the rush to judgement has begun. Enter -Al Sharpton, New Black Panthers, Spike Lee. It’s a mess.
Spike Lee should be sued for what did to that poor couple-----who are now being basically forced to move by his irresponsible, all-out-stupid texting actions.

At the very least he owes them an apology and some help in moving out.

Sheesh.
 
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