Unofficial Election Thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter PaulinVA
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
OraLabora said:
Perhaps the Church should then become more realistic on the failure of abstinence as a means of preventing illicit pregnancies and review her stance on (non-abortifacient) contraceptives? Perhaps having more realistic expectations for human sexuality?
Click to expand...
Nobody is prevented from contraceptives, Church teaching has nothing to do with it.
 
Last edited:
This is just pure nonsense. You can’t just cry “fraud” without any actual evidence of fraud. If there are legitimate claims of issues, they can be brought up to the proper forum. But right now we are just seeing baseless braying that is motivated by a fear of losing.
 
OraLabora said:
It might not be for a family that lost health care coverage because of the inane practice of tying it to a job rather than the person(s). Especially if a family member has a serious health condition.
Click to expand...
I do not see ow this is a proportionate reason. Abortion directly kills a child. Lack of health care coverage does not directly kill a child.
The health care argument you shared seems, to me, to be an argument from self-interest, while the abortion argument seems to be an argument reflecting concern for another.
 
Lack of health care coverage can kill a child. Consider a family where the child has cancer.
 
Try reading the forum, plenty of threads have been posted on this.

Yes, fraud has to go to court, it may not be proven in a court of law as of now, this only happened days ago, so it’s not baseless to discuss.

Pennsylvania Judge did one ruling (there are many) in favor of the Trump side.

This will be a mess hard to undo. Yes, allegations are unproven but we will see what happens.
 
Last edited:
Anyone saying I’ll vote for such and such a pro-abortion or choice candidate because I strongly dislike a certain candidate is still enabling abortion, even if they have their proportional reasons. Such a viewpoint should be shunned.
OraLabora said:
It might not be for a family that lost health care coverage because of the inane practice of tying it to a job rather than the person(s). Especially if a family member has a serious health condition.

That most certainly is a “proportionate” reason to vote Democrat especially since Trump wants to dismantle Obamacare without offering a viable alternative.

The bishops can make general statements for the average voter, but cannot condemn valid proportionate reasons that different individuals may have.
Click to expand...
OraLabora said:
And the Vatican also makes it clear that one can vote Democrat for proportionate reasons, as long as one is voting for them in spite of their views on abortion, not because of them. Pope Benedict made this crystal clear when he was head of the CDF.
Click to expand...
You may not have proportional reasons that you assert.

Jobs? The economy? Taxes? Education? The environment? Immigration? Forget it. We do not have nine million people dying in a typical president’s term of office due to bad job programs, bad economic policies, bad taxes, bad education, bad environmental law, bad immigration rules—or even all of these combined. All of them together cannot provide a reason proportionate to the need to end abortion.

Make no mistake: Abortion is the preeminent moral issue of our time. It is the black hole that out-masses every other issue. Presenting any other issues as if they were proportionate to it is nothing but smoke and mirrors.
Click to expand...
jeannetherese said:
What is an illicit pregnancy?
Click to expand...
Ectopic?
 
Last edited:
MagdalenaRita said:
I thought he did a very good job in his press conference.
Click to expand...
Yes I cant work out why multiple media outlets cut it off, that is stupid imho
Will they make statements as to why they did it.
 
Last edited:
Independent Alaska Senate candidate (who would caucus with the Democrats) making noise that he thinks he has the votes to win. Don’t know if it’ll pan out but would be excellent news if so.
 
jeannetherese said:
I do not see ow this is a proportionate reason. Abortion directly kills a child. Lack of health care coverage does not directly kill a child.
The health care argument you shared seems, to me, to be an argument from self-interest, while the abortion argument seems to be an argument reflecting concern for another.
Click to expand...
The Church in no way teaches it is necessary to sacrifice one’s life or a family member’s for the greater good.

Nor a nation’s for that matter. Lack of adequate health care access most certainly can kill.

It’s a fundamental necessity of life and very much part of Church teaching. If a leader is promising to remove access to health care for a significant number, that is not “pro-life”, it is the opposite. If he’s anti-abortion, given that ending abortion is a long-term project, it most certainly can be proportionate to select a pro-health care candidate who is also pro abortion, in the current election cycle until a truly pro-life candidate comes along.

Moreover, proportionate reasons are a matter of individual conscience, not something to be imposed by others. We should thus in charity refrain from condemning Catholics who voted Biden even if we disagree with their notion of proportionate.
 
Not yet time to say ‘you’re fired’ to either candidate yet.
 
OraLabora said:
The Church in no way teaches it is necessary to sacrifice one’s life or a family member’s for the greater good.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is just vague. It could mean anything.
Nor a nation’s for that matter. Lack of adequate health care access most certainly can kill.

It’s a fundamental necessity of life and very much part of Church teaching. If a leader is promising to remove access to health care for a significant number, that is not “pro-life”, it is the opposite. If he’s anti-abortion, given that ending abortion is a long-term project, it most certainly can be proportionate to select a pro-health care candidate who is also pro abortion, in the current election cycle until a truly pro-life candidate comes along.

Moreover, proportionate reasons are a matter of individual conscience, not something to be imposed by others. We should thus in charity refrain from condemning Catholics who voted Biden even if we disagree with their notion of proportionate.
Click to expand...
Abortion is not healthcare, period. Why don’t these standards apply to the unborn? This is hypocritical.

Please post the exact quote or link the document, we should reject what is not proven, enough of this “I’m pro-life but…” We respect one’s words, it may be so. Nobody doubts the truth of it, however, these points are not proven.

Nothing is substantiated. Just mentioning Cardinal Ratzinger doesn’t do it. The CA article mentions Ratzinger too.


As CA says, you can’t support the Holocaust because the government won’t pay for a hip operation for Granma.

I would hope, one would be charitable enough to actually back up what they are asserting. The article says in no way what you are asserting is correct but that it is misleading.

I would hope that one would be charitable to realize that Catholics respect the sanctity of life and that the right to life is as cherished as that of anyone here as to the unborn.

It also lacks charity to make attacks on the president with unsubstantiated claims and rationalizing voting to enable abortion.

It should be noted that the unborn deserve health care too.

Let’s see, one can make the same case you are, if the Democrats were anti-abortion, I could say, “I can enable abortion, they call for the defunding of the police which puts my family in danger and protect criminals”. Voila.

Continued below:
 
Last edited:
Continued from previous post:

We must be weary, it is a disservice to rationalize enabling abortion in my view and we can make the same pitch you do and accuse the Democrats of wanting to defund the police and so on, endangering us all.

That is the problem of just making up theology.

Your family is not the only ones that can be endangered.

And so by the same token, the Democrats put us all in danger with these calls to defund the police. Undocumentel illegals come in, they kill Americans, thus, open borders crowds endanger us all. Drugs come across the border, Fentanyl kills thusands of Americans and Canadians, so that is reason to vote against the Democrats. 2 can play this game.

Consider:


Maybe we can have a constructive conversation and not go down these rabbit holes if I am not being too bold.
StudentMI said:
Lack of health care coverage can kill a child. Consider a family where the child has cancer.
Click to expand...
Abortion can kill a child. Oh, consider that.

One has come up with your arguments, fine but I don’t think they are what the Catechism says, just one’s own views again.

The unborn don’t have a right to health care??
 
Last edited:
OraLabora said:
Everybody has a right to health care.
Click to expand...
Enanbling abortion is not health care.

Everybody has a right to public safety, calling for police to be defunded is not so.

Everybody has a right to a secure border, an open border results in the deaths of many.

Everybody has a right to life, see where this discussion leads. I will respect what the Church teaches.

They have told us the preeminent issue is abortion.

Canada and the US don’t need partial birth abortions, late term abortions and so on.

Not backing up one’s assertions simply leaves us to just have our own homespun vision on this.
 
Last edited:
Apparently Biden now has a slim 917 vote lead in Georgia according to Montreal’s La Presse.
 
Neither candidate for president has the power to make abortion laws stricter.

Neither one have the power to make them more liberal.

They both have the power to remove healthcare.

Roe v Wade can only be deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.

Roe was reconfirmed by planned parenthood vs Casey.

The current members of the Supreme Court are 6 Republican appointees, 3 Democratic appointees.


The video is worth a watch.
 
OraLabora said:
Nor is ending coverage for adults and kids. How is that “pro-life”? Pro-life means from conception until natural death. That is the Church’s position.
Click to expand...
But you are promoting the idea of enabling the termination of life.

You back up nothing you say. You are not citing any Catholic doctrine in specifics. Also, to say people are being denied coverage may be slander. Please name one person denied health coverage because of Trump? Some people were denied it because of Obama as well, it can not be afforded.

Calling for the police to be defunded endangers one’s family, of course, this was not addressed.

Calling for gun control endangers one’s family.

Open borders endangers one’s family.

This is just a rabbit hole, again, anyone can play that game.

Obamacare, unaffordable to thousands.

 
Last edited:
F_Marturana said:
Neither candidate for president has the power to make abortion laws stricter.

Neither one have the power to make them more liberal.

They both have the power to remove healthcare.

Roe v Wade can only be deemed unconstitutional by the Supreme Court.

Roe was reconfirmed by planned parenthood vs Casey.

The current members of the Supreme Court are 6 Republican appointees, 3 Democratic appointees.
Click to expand...
But the president has the power to defund for example, abortion funding for overseas.

So, there is a lot more to it.

Government Cuoumo ir is said has enabled infanticide in New York. We don’t need those values. President Trump in his errors has none the less saved babies in the 3rd world at the least.


The article is worth a read.

Senate advises and consents to SCOTUS nominees. Nobody got through without that.

Democrats largely push infanticide.

Thanks for the video, I’ll follow Catholic doctrine.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top