Unofficial Election Thread

[OraLabora]

The Bishops themselves have said this is the preeminent issue.

It might not be for a family that lost health care coverage because of the inane practice of tying it to a job rather than the person(s). Especially if a family member has a serious health condition.

That most certainly is a “proportionate” reason to vote Democrat especially since Trump wants to dismantle Obamacare without offering a viable alternative.

The bishops can make general statements for the average voter, but cannot condemn valid proportionate reasons that different individuals may have.

This is a Catholic forum, Catholic teaching makes it clear.

And the Vatican also makes it clear that one can vote Democrat for proportionate reasons, as long as one is voting for them in spite of their views on abortion, not because of them. Pope Benedict made this crystal clear when he was head of the CDF.

 

[OraLabora]

I’ve always considered Fox the Trump White House Ministry of Propaganda. Is that not the conservative view?

I wouldn’t call Trump a “conservative” at least in the sense I understand the term. A populist reactionary perhaps.

That said I agree Fox is his Ministry of Propaganda…

 

[RhodesianSon]

Nah, I don’t even watch fox. I find them quite annoying. If anything they’re what I’d consider centrist.

I don’t like any cable news networks. It’s not really news, it’s just a bunch people giving their opinions. I can hear that at the VFW hall and at least enjoy the company.

 

[PaulinVA]

I don’t like any cable news networks. It’s not really news, it’s just a bunch people giving their opinions. I can hear that at the VFW hall and at least enjoy the company.

Well, after dark the news leaves most cable “news” networks, unless there is a legitimate breaking news event.

 

[Victoria33]

Fox is said to have some sour grapes on the president but that’s a bit conspiratorial in calling AZ for Biden, they were asked to retract.

It’s all no big deal, if I don’t like Fox, there is Newsmax, there is OANN, heck, there’s CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, Fox Business and so on. I’d have to check the dial, CSPAN.

342 on Direct TV, Black News Channel TV, seen them???

And al Jazeera use to be on, for news itself, I don’t mind them.

This Fox news obsession, what an obsession over the years on Fox news. Some is okay.

 

[umamibella]

I will listen to the Vatican.

I will listen to my conscience . Period. Allowing abortion in a rape case is still abortion.
Its not about a personhood argument. Its about killing an innocent baby.

I’m almost puzzled about what you are trying to say.

I am puzzled why there are people who think abortion in a rape case is an acceptable thing to do. They then allow it.
So we are both puzzled.

The Bishops and the Vatican would be struggling to state it as preeminant here , so they dont.

And al Jazeera use to be on, for news itself, I don’t mind them.

Aljazeera is pretty good I find. They tend to report without all the emotion of some of the others. They are truly global though.

 

[RhodesianSon]

I prefer to read. I typically stick to the Atlantic.

 

[PaulinVA]

Fox is said to have some sour grapes on the president but that’s a bit conspiratorial in calling AZ for Biden, they were asked to retract.

Someone on here posted that there are two groups doing exit polling, and the one that the AP and Fox use produced valid results in AZ (so they called it) but the one the other networks use messed up AZ and couldn’t predict anything.

 

[Feanor2]

Lol. You think so?

How long you gonna hold on to that?

 

[Rockoh22]

This Fox news obsession, what an obsession over the years on Fox news. Some is okay.

This came from Barack Obama. He took Fox News down often. Saying things like “Unless you watch Fox News”

This now when people talk about news, if people disagree is because they watch Fox News. Which is laughable today, but old habits die hard.

I was a CNN only guy, and today? I loath CNN. Can not stand them, their hate reality TV show is nauseating to me.

I can not stand MSNBC is un-ernergetic and depressed, Fox News I can watch but the News section only, I like Bret Baier, I find him level headed. The opinions on Fox News are too energetic and very very bias.

 

[umamibella]

This is a Catholic forum, Catholic teaching makes it clear.

Catholic teaching makes this clear, there is no exception for abortion for rape.

Again, your statement is a bit ambiguous but I believe the Vatican makes it very clear.

This is a pretty clear statement and the Vatican makes it clear. I am not sure what is unclear about what the Vatican makes clear in :
There should be no exception for abortion for rape.
Perhaps you could explain where it is confusing to you and then I can clear it up.

Clear? The post was broken up into two posts.

 

[Jeanne_S]

I will agree that these exceptions for abortion have been used as a caveat by the republicans as a means of pandering to voters’ Having said that,the fact still remains that allowing for the rare but possible pregnancies that occur under these circumstances,bears far less culpability than a candidate the endorse abortion any time any where for any reason up u til birth.

 

[Victoria33]

What’s clear is you link to no document so your point is not proven at all.

"However, if, for a period of time, Catholic politicians and voters are unable to enact a law prohibiting all abortion, then Catholic politicians and voters may in good conscience vote for whichever law offers the greatest restrictions and limits on abortion. Subsequently, Catholic politicians and voters are required by the moral law to continue to enact further restrictions and limits on abortion, to the greatest extent possible, and, at every possible opportunity, to vote for laws which completely outlaw abortion."

Abortion and Excommunication - Catholic Ethics.

You can vote for the most pro-life. Not perfectly pro-life, that would be a debate in itself, one could claim, I am most pro-life because I believe in personhood. It opens more debate.

Clear?

I will agree that these exceptions for abortion have been used as a caveat by the republicans as a means of pandering to voters’ Having said that,the fact still remains that allowing for the rare but possible pregnancies that occur under these circumstances,bears far less culpability than a candidate the endorse abortion any time any where for any reason up u til birth.

Yes, those abortions too are extremely rare. Maybe less than 1% of all abortions.

In every case, a Catholic should vote in such a way as to obtain as many restrictions on abortion as possible, and so as to obtain the end to legalized abortion as soon as possible.

 

[umamibella]

I will agree that these exceptions for abortion have been used as a caveat by the republicans as a means of pandering to voters’ Having said that,the fact still remains that allowing for the rare but possible pregnancies that occur under these circumstances,bears far less culpability than a candidate the endorse abortion any time any where for any reason up u til birth.

No exceptions for rape. Its hypocracy otherwise. Pregnancy is not that rare with rape. The other issue is it is an exception used as a loophole.

I wont talk of the exception if the mothers life is in danger because I am not up with the ethical arguments and what constitutes a life in danger, or the regulations around it.

 

[Jeanne_S]

I agree there are no exceptions it’s not a grey area.Yet taking that issue out of the equation,it is still obvious that Trump or any republican candidate is a better option than what the Dems ever offer,now or past

 

[umamibella]

What’s clear is you link to no document so your point is not proven at all.

Linking a document is absolutely irrelevant to the
no exceptions for abortion for rape.

Yes, those abortions too are extremely rare. Maybe less than 1% of all abortions.

They are far more common. As stated there is also the loophole involved here too.

then Catholic politicians and voters may in good conscience vote for whichever law offers the greatest restrictions and limits on abortion. Subsequently, Catholic politicians and voters are required by the moral law to continue to enact further restrictions and limits on abortion, to the greatest extent possible, and, at every possible opportunity, to vote for laws which completely outlaw abortion."

No need to shout
Clear?

You can vote for the most pro-life. Not perfectly pro-life, that would be a debate in itself, one could claim, I am most pro-life because I believe in personhood. It opens more debate.

A person can vote for whoever they want, not just the big two. I would vote completely prolife , absolutely no exceptions if that was my preeminent concern.
I believe God gives life at conception and we have no right to extinguish it. I wont debate that with God. As I am sure any practising Catholic believes.

 

[umamibella]

I agree there are no exceptions it’s not a grey area.Yet taking that issue out of the equation,it is still obvious that Trump or any republican candidate is a better option than what the Dems ever offer,now or past

Neither would be my choice, for the reason they both condone abortion, to different degrees, amongst other reasons. I would go into the whys and why nots of my voting choices , but for the knowing of folks with flaggy trigger fingers who might be offended. I would not want to offend anyone. Its uncharitable.

 

[RhodesianSon]

We’ll never have a 100% abortion ban in a democracy. Few people support making a rape victim carry her attackers child against her will. Which is a pretty glaring reason ruling by the will of “the people” doesn’t mean we’ll have just or good laws. Just mostly popular ones.

 

[umamibella]

We’ll never have a 100% abortion ban in a democracy. Few people support making a rape victim carry her attackers child against her will. Which is a pretty glaring reason ruling by the will of “the people” doesn’t mean we’ll have just or good laws. Just mostly popular ones.

We should strive for it. Absolutely. It sounds harsh and cruel, but we need to put in supports so those women can do so.
Our job as Catholics is swimming against the tide, swimming upstream, where our beliefs are not those of secular world, one becoming increasingly hostile to us.

 

[RhodesianSon]

I completely agree. I would love to see communities set up where single mothers and their children can be housed and fed while they try and get their feet under them. I think any man who makes a child and refuses to support the mother should be put to work on a labor farm to generate revenue to support the mother and child. I’m all for expanding social programs to stop abortion.