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StudentMI
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Oh no not facebook, the last word in fact checking!
Yeah that’s not an answer to what I posted.
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MagdalenaRita
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So if you read the article you will find there is much information, mostly from the CDC. I only mentioned Facebook because it started with a Facebook post and that led to PolitiFact’s article confirming it.
Abortion will always be with us if we do not fight it, so if we allow it by not fight against it or vote for people that encourage and push for it, it will always be here.
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Daisy
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Abortion numbers have been going down no matter who is in office. This is most likely thanks to an increase in prenatal sonogram technology and education.
A president’s influence on abortion is not at all immediate. It is a slow and arduous bureaucratic process, such as appointing Supreme Court justices and passing laws through agreements and finally enactment.
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StudentMI
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You are aware abortion has been with us since ancient times? Even Hildegard of Bingen mentioned an abortifacient in a writing of hers.
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Daisy
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I dont respect this poster’s tone.MagdalenaRita:
Oh no not facebook, the last word in fact checking!
Yeah that’s not an answer to what I posted.
I’m outta here.
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Rockoh22
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I think you missed my point. But if you feel I attacked you, I do not know what to say to that. I spoke about the constant attacks on Trump supporters by prominent left wing pundits. Calling for Trump supporters to be removed from society is not an insignificant thing from a well known personality.
Are you agreeing that all Trump supporters need to be eliminated?
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StudentMI
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Do you really want me to look up all the incidents where right wing pundits said similar things about liberals as traitors and abettors to terrorism? The incidents where right wingers spoke of rounding up leftists and deporting them if not doing worse to them? The only good commie is a dead commie?
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MagdalenaRita
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Ah, yes, so has theft, other murders, assault, arson, kidnapping and other crimes. Should we allow those also because they have been around since ancient times?
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StudentMI
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You’re not getting my point. I’m saying even with laws against something they still happen. So aren’t you interested in what would make numbers go down regardless of whether there are laws against something?
Take theft. Theft increases as poverty increases. Isn’t there therefore something to be said for targeting poverty as a means of eliminating theft?
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Rockoh22
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That is what people said when I was a child. They got it from their parents. Not cool, I did not like it then and do not like it now. Are you a commie?
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StudentMI
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Why do you ask?
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MagdalenaRita
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I get your point.
I don’t believe that a democratic pro abortion president makes the abortion rates go down.
As Daisy said abortion rates have decreased due to medical technology, education and access to contraceptives.
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Rockoh22
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The way you wrote it, to me sounded like you took offense personally.
It does not matter. That language is not good either. The rhetoric we have is from wealthy people. And us the poor laymen, pay the price.
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OraLabora
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Exactly, we are a fallen species. Infanticide was sometimes used as well (of live-born infants).
We live in an ugly world. So reduction is what we can probably realistically achieve. And laws aren’t the only way to achieve that. Your theft example is excellent.
Perhaps the Church should then become more realistic on the failure of abstinence as a means of preventing illicit pregnancies and review her stance on (non-abortifacient) contraceptives? Perhaps having more realistic expectations for human sexuality?
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MagdalenaRita
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Completely disagree here. Of course this goes back to Humanae Vitae and exactly what Pope Paul VI said would happen has: marriage and society would suffer.
The Church changing to fit the world’s desire would only make matters worse.
We have to continue to fight the good fight.
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StudentMI
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Unfortunately this seems like what is needed. I have no idea how to square it with Humanae Vitae, however.
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Jeanne_S
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This is the reality of contraception. We now have infertility Issues with women who have used contraceptives for years.They then turn to fertility drugs or in vitro fertilization to,achieve pregnancy. Both means are in defiance of God’snatural law. Now this procedure is used for SS couples by way of a surrogate to carry their baby also disordered. Oftentimes multiple babies result in some being aborted fir a better outcome for a few. See how the use of a pill to prevent a pregnancy results in more and more disorder?
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MagdalenaRita
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There is no way to square it with Humanae Vitae and be faithful to Christ and His Church.
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OraLabora
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Well, I used to agree with you. I have become more jaded with age. Both abstinence for we little people, and celibacy for the priesthood, appear to be abject failures as effective means of 1) birth control and 2) keeping out the riff-raff from the priesthood. Hence pedophilia scandals, homosexual scandals, priests in Africa living openly with concubines… the only result has been hypocrisy.
I think somewhere between total abstinence including even from self-pleasure, and total licentiousness, there is a balance somewhere.
I think as an ideal to strive for, Humanae Vitae and the Church’s teaching on sexuality have some validity. As a realistic expectation though, not so much.
My own answer would be not to take such a granular view, and instead look at the bigger picture. Ask families to be fecund, but give them the moral right to select the best non-abortifacient means to balance fecundity against economic realities. Ask young adults to do their best to remain chaste, but given them the tools to protect themselves when nature and youthful hormone levels catch up with them. As for telling a 14 y.o. kid to wait until (s)he marries at 30 for any kind of sexuality, including masturbation… well I have some prime swampland in Florida to sell you.
I disagree. The Protestants don’t all have the same take on masturbation and contraception within marriage as the Catholic Church. They don’t appear to descend into moral depravity any more or less than we do. When we try to short-circuit nature, nature somehow manages to short-circuit our efforts to short-circuit nature. And it often leaves us looking like fools.
Contraception is like the Internet: it can be used with restraint in a family context, or it can be used wrongly. We as humans have been misusing good tools to evil purposes since the Garden of Eden. Just because something like the Internet can effectively be used maliciously doesn’t mean we should ban the Internet (or the phone for that matter). Just because contraception can be used by a rapist, doesn’t mean it should be banned for families or other monogamous relationships.
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MagdalenaRita
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That is because of our fallen nature but that doesn’t mean we don’t strive to do what God tells us to do and also it is because of contraceptives and the sexual revolution that we have all these issues. To encourage it further will only create more problems.
The problem isn’t within families but sex outside of marriage. Also as I am sure you are aware the only monogamous sexual relationship the Church condones is marriage between one man and one woman.
My other thought that came to me on this matter is, why is the solution for unwanted pregnancy for women to take pills that have harmful and dangerous side effects?
IMHO we need a new sexual revolution, one that puts us back in line with Church teaching.
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