US Catholics back bishops on religious freedom, but still favor Obama, poll shows [CWN]

[Yerusalyim]

American Catholics generally agree with their bishops regarding the threats to religious freedom, a new Pew Forum poll shows. However, despite tensions between the US hierarchy and the …

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I’ve not met these Catholics that support Obama yet. Are there really so many Pelosi-esque Catholics out there?

 

[He_Man]

As a “Social Values” Catholic, I heard nothing at the GOP convention that resemble “Christian Values”. The Gospels tell us that we are to strive to be Christ-Like to use Christ as our “EXAMPLE” in life and in our decisions. Jesus, did not have an indifference to the poor, the aged or the disenfranchised, quite to the contrary he spoke for them. Jesus did not lie to his people in order to accomplish the greater good, if your message is good there is no reason to lie. I don’t know what has happened to the Republican Party but they no longer share my Christian Values and I will be voting for President Obama, he may not be perfect, but then NO ONE IS, but he does share my Christian Values. The HOLY SCRIPTURES reference the poor and social justice 300 times, sanctity of life 13 times (Sanctity of life also INCLUDED the life of the MOTHER), In God we Trust is a symbol or our Christian Values not the Value itself, the Republican have become the modern day Pharisees the modern day hypocrites ;

And you heard that at the DNC? I must have missed over the “noooooo!” chants when they voted to add God and Jerusalem back into the platform.

All I know some people are gullible enough to believe that Democrats are the party of the “poor”, and the only measure that makes this true is that we have a lot more poor now than we did under any Republican. Congratulations.

By the way, if we only looked to Scripture for guidance as Catholics, your post may have had some merit.

 

[austenbosten]

As a “Social Values” Catholic, I heard nothing at the GOP convention that resemble “Christian Values”. The Gospels tell us that we are to strive to be Christ-Like to use Christ as our “EXAMPLE” in life and in our decisions…and I will be voting for President Obama, he may not be perfect, but then NO ONE IS, but he does share my Christian Values.

:ehh:

“Social Values” Catholic huh? Did you forget this is Obama’s position and record?

Obama on Abortion

Obama on Same-sex marraige

Obama’s policies…

Lower-Paying Jobs Account For Nearly 60% Of The Jobs Added Since The Recession Ended In 2009. **
*
“Lower-paying jobs, with median hourly wages from $7.69 to $13.83, accounted for just 21% of the job losses during the recession. But they’ve made up about 58% of the job growth from the end of the recession in late 2009 through early 2012.” (Jim Puzzanghera, “Majority Of New Jobs In Recovery Are Low-Paying, Study Finds,” Los Angeles Times, 8/31/12)
**
The Majority Of New Jobs Created In President Obama’s So-Called Recovery “Pay Much Less” Than Jobs Before The Recession.*

“Although six in 10 jobs lost during the Great Recession paid mid-level wages, the majority of new jobs created in the recovery – positions such as store clerks, laborers and home healthcare aides – pay much less, according to a new study.” (Jim Puzzanghera, “Majority Of New Jobs In Recovery Are Low-Paying, Study Finds,” Los Angeles Times, 8/31/12)

Since President Obama Took Office, Median Household Income Has Declined By Over $4,000.

“In January 2009, the month President Obama entered the Oval Office and shortly before he signed his stimulus spending bill, median household income was $54,983. By June 2012, it had tumbled to $50,964, adjusted for inflation. (See the chart nearby.) That’s $4,019 in lost real income, a little less than a month’s income every year.” (Editorial, “Negative $4,019,” The Wall Street Journal, 8/24/12)

**Since President Obama Took Office, Family Health Care Premiums Have Increased By $2,393. **(Kaiser Family Foundation, 2011)

Since President Obama Took Office, The Average Price Per Gallon Of Gas Has More Than Doubled From $1.85 To $3.84.* (U.S. Energy And Information Administration, Accessed 9/12/12)*

**Since President Obama Took Office, The Average Cost Of In-State Tuition At A Four-Year College Has Increased From $6,585 To $8,244 – A 25 Percent Increase. **(“Trends In College Pricing 2009,” College Board, 2008; “Trends In College Pricing 2011,” College Board, 2011)

The Cost Of College Is Currently At “An All Time High.”

“Nationally, the cost of a full credit load has passed $8,000, an all-time high. Throw in room and board, and the average list price for a state school now runs more than $17,000 a year, according to the twin annual reports on college costs and student aid published Wednesday by the College Board.” (Justin Poe, “College Prices Up Again As States Slash Budgets,” The Associated Press, 10/26/11)

President Obama’s Tax Hikes Would Subject 2.1 Million Business Owners To Higher Taxes And Would Jeopardize 710,000 Jobs.

“Researchers determined the plan would actually subject 2.1 million business owners to higher rates; specifically, those who pay pass-through taxes, like most partnerships, LLCs and S-Corporations. The result, less capital in the hands of business owners and diminished labor supply, would cost the United States an estimated $200 billion in economic output and 710,000 jobs.” (J.D. Harrison, “Obama Plan To Lift Top Tax Rates Would Plague Millions Of Small Businesses, Study Warns,” The Washington Post, 7/17/12)

President Obama’s Tax Plan “Would Hurt Small-Business Job Creators In Particular.

• “New research, released today by the National Federation of Independent Business, shows that allowing tax relief on the top individual rates to expire will hurt job creation and the economy. The report, published by top accounting firm Ernst & Young, shows raising top individual rates would hurt small-business job creators in particular.” (NFIB, Press Release, 7/17/12)*

all in all his policies have and will continue to impoverish Americans and hurt the poor…so I don’t see anywhere in Scripture promoting Abortion, or Same-sex marriage and I highly doubt Obama’s policies that have affected income and jobs have helped the poor

So please explain to me as self-proclaimed “Social Values” Catholic, how do you justify voting for this man? I am really curious, what has Obama done or policies he’s supported to earn your vote as a “Social Values” Catholic?

 

[Yahoo_Thom]

My my, how touchy my FELLOW CATHOLICS have become. I quoted the HOLY SCRIPTURES and for Catholics that is the Church. His Holiness the Pope is bound by the Bible and words of our Lord. I am not saying the the Pro-Life Movement is not important or that I am not pro-life. What I am saying is that I am not SECULAR, I will honor the Nicene Creed, “I believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church”. Whether you like it or not, Barack Obama is a Protestant, he is not perfect, but is a Apostolic Christian. Mitt Romney is not Apostolic, Catholic or Christian, ask you Priest. And I will not be selling my soul so easily…I will follow my conscience and my God…I love being a Catholic, not just being Pro-life. For those of you that reminded me that “SOME” at the DNC wanted to remove God and Jerusalem from the Platform…the APOSTOLIC CHRISTIAN Barack Obama put it back in himself…

 

[jwinch2]

I quoted the HOLY SCRIPTURES and for Catholics that is the Church.

No. For Catholics Sacred Tradition and Magesterial Teaching are to be held co-equal with Sacred Scripture.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

My my, how touchy my FELLOW CATHOLICS have become. I quoted the HOLY SCRIPTURES and for Catholics that is the Church. His Holiness the Pope is bound by the Bible and words of our Lord. I am not saying the the Pro-Life Movement is not important or that I am not pro-life. What I am saying is that I am not SECULAR, I will honor the Nicene Creed, “I believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church”. Whether you like it or not, Barack Obama is a Protestant, he is not perfect, but is a Apostolic Christian. Mitt Romney is not Apostolic, Catholic or Christian, ask you Priest. And I will not be selling my soul so easily…I will follow my conscience and my God…I love being a Catholic, not just being Pro-life. For those of you that reminded me that “SOME” at the DNC wanted to remove God and Jerusalem from the Platform…the APOSTOLIC CHRISTIAN Barack Obama put it back in himself…

I think Obama is Christian in name only, though certainly not Muslim. I actually believe he is a secular humanist.

 

[austenbosten]

My my, how touchy my FELLOW CATHOLICS have become. I quoted the HOLY SCRIPTURES and for Catholics that is the Church. His Holiness the Pope is bound by the Bible and words of our Lord. I am not saying the the Pro-Life Movement is not important or that I am not pro-life. What I am saying is that I am not SECULAR, I will honor the Nicene Creed, “I believe in one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church”. Whether you like it or not, Barack Obama is a Protestant, he is not perfect, but is a Apostolic Christian. Mitt Romney is not Apostolic, Catholic or Christian, ask you Priest. And I will not be selling my soul so easily…I will follow my conscience and my God…I love being a Catholic, not just being Pro-life. For those of you that reminded me that “SOME” at the DNC wanted to remove God and Jerusalem from the Platform…the APOSTOLIC CHRISTIAN Barack Obama put it back in himself…

I’m not touchy, just puzzled and curious. So apparently you are fine with Obama’s anti-Catholic policies because at least he’s not a heretical Mormon like Romney.

Is that right or have I misunderstood you, because in all honesty I am quite baffled by your views.

Oh and I was gonna say it but jwinch beat me to it.

No. For Catholics Sacred Tradition and Magesterial Teaching are to be held co-equal with Sacred Scripture.

That’s what I wanted to say

 

[Yahoo_Thom]

Actuallly I am the one that puzzled, Mitt Romney is not a Christian and is not against the Death Penalty, which is an IMPORTANT part of the PRO-LIFE movement. Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan have been admonished by the Catholic Bishops for their IMMORAL Budget plan…Yet you call Barack Obama’s policies anti-Catholic? You are deluding yourselves my friends…but it is your soul and your salvation…I will take my chances with the Apostolic Christian…you can take you chances with the Non-Christain…it is your choice to make

 

[Yahoo_Thom]

Tampa Dave, Respectfully, I have heard Barack Obama Christianity questioned over and over again for political reasons. You don’t know this man personally and I don’t. So I will do the Catholic thing and take him at this word. But one thing I know for sure, your "SUPPOSITION’ about Barack Obama is only that, but it is a VERIFIED FACT that Mitt Romney is NOT Christian, NOT Apostolic and NOT Catholic and this is not a supposition. You need to follow your hearts, like I said it it your soul…I cannot make a SECULAR vote for a NON-CHRISTIAN…

 

[jediliz]

Yahoo Thom

We are supposed to help the poor, NOT “Caesar”. Food Stamps are good for the truly poor, but there are those who have abused the system (and use their virtually unlimited debit cards to buy alcohol and cigarettes instead of FOOD)

Where does JESUS tell us to let Caesar (The government) take care of the poor? Was it when he said "When I was hungry,you gave me to eat? Or perhaps “When I was thirsty, you gave me to drink?” Jesus did NOT tell us to make the poor become RELIANT on the GOVERNMENT! I would much rather Saint Vincent De Paul Society or Catholic Social Services/Chariites takes care of the poor. NOT the government.

 

[austenbosten]

Actuallly I am the one that puzzled, Mitt Romney is not a Christian

By what standard? Mormons consider themselves Christian. So do you consider Harry Reid to be a non-Christian since he’s a member of the same church as Romney?

…and is not against the Death Penalty, which is an IMPORTANT part of the PRO-LIFE movement.

Well Obama has been President for 4 years and has done nothing to end Capital Punishment, in-fact he exercised capital punishment on Osama Bin Ladin and Anwar al-Aulaqi. one with a firing squad and the other with a Predator drone. So a pretty weak argument on your part.

Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan have been admonished by the Catholic Bishops for their IMMORAL Budget plan

And they have also been praised, Bishops (like Catholic laity) hold differing opinions on politics.

…Yet you call Barack Obama’s policies anti-Catholic?

Ummm yes :doh2:

you think forcing Catholic institutions to provide contraceptives, supporting abortion and same-sex marriage is pro-Catholic

You are deluding yourselves my friends…but it is your soul and your salvation…I will take my chances with the Apostolic Christian…you can take you chances with the Non-Christain…it is your choice to make

Yeah I’m deluded cause I have facts instead of rehtoric

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

American Catholics generally agree with their bishops regarding the threats to religious freedom, a new Pew Forum poll shows. However, despite tensions between the US hierarchy and the …

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This is only further demonstration of the theological and ideological schizophrenia of the American Catholic.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

As a “Social Values” Catholic,

Where does this one fit in to your views as a “Social Values” Catholic?

"For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example. We were not idle when we were with you, nor did we eat anyone’s food without paying for it. On the contrary, we worked night and day, laboring and toiling so that we would not be a burden to any of you. We did this, not because we do not have the right to such help, but in order to make ourselves a model for you to follow. For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat.”

We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies. Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the bread they eat. And as for you, brothers, never tire of doing what is right.

If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed. Yet do not regard him as an enemy, but warn him as a brother." 2 Thessalonians 3:7-15

 

[jwinch2]

Actuallly I am the one that puzzled, Mitt Romney is not a Christian and is not against the Death Penalty, which is an IMPORTANT part of the PRO-LIFE movement.

No. Being against the death penalty is not required of any Catholic. Starting in the most recent Catechism, Catholics are encouraged to be against it, but not required to. The Catechism of the Council of Trent, still holds true.

Mitt Romney and Paul Ryan have been admonished by the Catholic Bishops for their IMMORAL Budget plan…Yet you call Barack Obama’s policies anti-Catholic?

No, there a couple of bishops and a committee of the USCCB made up largely of lay persons. Many bishops have actually come out in support of the Ryan budget and many others have openly acknowledged that spending money we do not have is morally wrong, while falling short of supporting the budget. There are dozens of examples discussed in this thread. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=685217

You are deluding yourselves my friends…but it is your soul and your salvation…I will take my chances with the Apostolic Christian…you can take you chances with the Non-Christain…it is your choice to make

Obama can call himself a Christian all he likes. The question is does he act like one, and the answer is a resounding no. I’ll take a person who emphasizes family, faith, has given large amounts of money to charity, is pro-life, and actually has chance to turn our economy around.

 

[Yahoo_Thom]

I read your comments and I truly am saddened. To go through life thinking that that all that are Idle are lazy. Did Jesus Christ walk around with such a cynical attitude toward the world, did he look at all of us sinners and say hey to heck with them…or did he love us and die on the Cross for ALL OF us. You say that Barack Obama is forcing Catholic Organization for give women contraceptives, you know that is not true, even so that has been going on for quite sometime…where do you see the MORAL EQUIVALENCE in the Democrats having “Insurance” companies pay for contraception, and the Republicans cutting Medicare for the Aged, Medicaid for the poor, food stamps for the hungry…sorry there is none…but like I said, it is your immortal soul…There is NO WHERE in the Bible that you can point out, were Jesus told you to chose NO CONTRACEPTION over any other Social issue…but you can try. Good Night to all of you and may GOD BLESS you and keep you safe…

 

[jwinch2]

where do you see the MORAL EQUIVALENCE in the Democrats having “Insurance” companies pay for contraception, and the Republicans cutting Medicare for the Aged, Medicaid for the poor, food stamps for the hungry…

Show me where. Show me where the cuts are in medicare. Show me where the cuts are for food stamps.

paulryan.house.gov/uploadedfiles/pathtoprosperity2013.pdf

Sadly, it seems that you are woefully ignorant of Catholic teaching. A hallmark of Catholic Social Doctrine is that there are issues we are free to disagree on, namely the best way to help the poor. We are all required to believe we are supposed to help them, but the method of doing so is one of the areas where we can legitimately disagree. However, there are also some issues we are not free to disagree on such as those which represent intrinsic evil like abortion and contraception or religious freedom. You have created a false equivalence based upon your own preconceived preferences.

catholichispanic.org/pdf/Catholic-Voter’s%20Guide-2012.pdf
catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=34477
catholicadvocate.com/2011/05/the-catholicity-of-paul-ryan%E2%80%99s-budget/
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=14639
nationalreview.com/corner/313468/baltimore-archbishop-catholic-voters-cant-vote-candidate-who-stands-intrinsic-evil-kat#

 

[SuperLuigi]

As a “Social Values” Catholic, I heard nothing at the GOP convention that resemble “Christian Values”. The Gospels tell us that we are to strive to be Christ-Like to use Christ as our “EXAMPLE” in life and in our decisions.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Matthew 19:24 “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (Greed, indifference and avarice of the plutocracy)

Lust, politics of envy by the left, all the Obama supporters and #occupy who are elite wannabes.

Think God can’t see through them?

What have they suffered? What have they given up?

Timothy 6:10. For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith, and pierced themselves with many a pang. (Re-Defining Christian Values-the Ryan Budget and prosperity doctrine, indifference to the plight of the Middle Class and the Poor, avarice of the 1%)

How about stealing from our kids and grandkids who aren’t even born yet? Is it right to take from others without their say in the matter?

Is that just?

Matthew 7:1-5“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. (Judgment of each other and intolerance of our differences, Races and Beliefs)

Google KKK and democrat senators and get back to me.

Also look on youtube at TEA PARTY protests in WI last March and at the Catholic TFP ones.

Tell me who is the voice of intolerance.

James 4:11-12 “Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother speaks evil against the law and judges the law, but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor? ” (Tolerance and respect for one another, honoring God’s greatest gift the gift of FREE WILL)

FREE WILL is limited under the shackles of government.

The Founding Fathers have a word for it:

Tyranny.

Galatians 5:14 “For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” (Tolerance and Respect for each other and the pursuit of happiness)

Seems to me it’s only an excuse on your part to ignore evil. That’s why you’re also able to vote democrat w/o it bothering your conscience.

Proverbs 31:9 “Open your mouth, judge righteously; defend the rights of the poor and needy.” (Medicaid, Education, Food Stamps and the Social Safety net)

In this country, no one has a right to any of those things under the Constitution, and they would be better off if all of those things were privatized.

Leviticus 19:34"You shall treat the stranger who sojourns with you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God." (Immigration reform, Anti-Immigrant sentiment, the Dream Act)

So, is that why so many white and educated liberals live OUTSIDE the deep cities and why a lot of the gay rights and immigrant preachers aren’t setting up shop or buying in house in gay central in SF or Minneapolis or the AZ/Mexican border?

Anyone notice how liberals don’t live next to the people, in most cases, that they want to help so bad?

I’m voting for ROMNEY and I’ve lived in downtown Detroit and DC.

Where’ve you been?

Ezekiel 47:22 “You shall allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the aliens who reside among you and have had children among you. They shall be to you as native-born children of Israel. With you they shall be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel." (Immigration reform. the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, The Dream Act)

I’ll be sure and let the illegal immigrants know that.Since you’re so benevolent, I’m sure you won’t mind if they set-up a few dozen tents on your yard. And if there happen to Russian or Chinese spies among them, or al quedia operatives or drug runners or sex traffickers, well, then, that’s par for the course.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Luke 6:24. “But woe to you who are rich, for you are receiving your comfort in full.” (Income inequality, unfair tax rates that only benefit the 1% and Corporate subsidies vs. the Social Safety Net and avarice)

The government shouldn’t be subsidizing anything. But, then again, if taxes were lower, we wouldn’t have that much of a problem.

There would be a much larger social safety net if were turned over to the private sector and the free market.

Proverbs 12:22 “Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, but those who act faithfully are his delight.” Psalm 101:7”No one who practices deceit shall dwell in my house; no one who utters lies shall continue before my eyes.” (“We Built That” misrepresentation by GOP and “Obama is removing the work requirement to welfare, all the speeches at the convention by GOP leaders, blatant lies not good for the Party of so called “Christian Values”)

Obama is removing the work requirement, and I’ll bet real money you didn’t even see half of the GOP convention.

There is no right to student aid or an education. The costs to education rose dramatically when government got involved under the Carter administration and now greedy union bosses, retired democrat politicians, football players, coaches and the academia elite use government money and high tuition to fund their lofty lifestyle, pensions, pet projects and are turning unis into country clubs.

We can’t afford the Dream Act, and that is something the states should decide.

In fact, education would be considerably less expensive if it were returned to the local level.

Matthew. 6:24. “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will hold to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and Money.” (Corporate greed and the avarice of the 1% and Wall Street)

You gotta love the Catholic cafeteria mindset of Obama supporters. How about those Catholics on here who support so-called “gay marriage”? Or abortion? How’s that for putting the world first?

 

[SuperLuigi]

And you heard that at the DNC? I must have missed over the “noooooo!” chants when they voted to add God and Jerusalem back into the platform.

All I know some people are gullible enough to believe that Democrats are the party of the “poor”, and the only measure that makes this true is that we have a lot more poor now than we did under any Republican. Congratulations.