Using most of the MGTOW Philosophy in choosing the right women?

[Xantippe]

I’m extremely short (5"0) so I’m not picky when it comes to height. I think 6" guys would hurt their backs if they have to constantly bend down, lol

I’m almost 5’3" and my husband is about 9" taller than me. Kissing each other is enough of a stretch with that height difference. I’m sure people manage with bigger differences–but I can’t see preferring a situation where you need a stepladder to reach your sweetie.

Edited to add: From my point of view, the majority of men are tall.

 

[Bernoulli]

Edmundus1581:

And of course there are differences in the way men and women become dissatisfied with their spouse and the reasons for leaving, but that’s a topic for another discussion

This article was shared quite a lot a few months ago:

The Bored Sex

Women, more than men, tend to feel stultified by long-term exclusivity—despite having been taught that they were designed for it.

www.theatlantic.com

Both men and women have a novelty bias with regards to their sexual desire. There is a difference how their desire works, in particular, male desire is more indiscriminate while female desire is choosy, and as the article tells, men are less likely to become uninterested in sex with their long-term partner, while women are more likely to do that. The latter is a special case of men’s more indiscriminate desire.

However, even if the facts were true, people are not determined by their feelings and desires. The solution could as well be practicing the virtue of chastity and consciously avoiding depriving their spouse, which is a part of the virtue of justice.

 

[TheLittleLady]

Edited to add: From my point of view, the majority of men are tall.

At 4’ 2". I agree

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

Meanwhile, our president is on wife #3 and has cheated on every single one…

I suppose he fell out of love, too?

You’re shifting the goal posts out of the stadium there. Nice.

I don’t excuse Trump’s personal conduct, do not put those words in my mouth. But I will say 98% of all men are shorter than Trump, 99.9% of all men are less rich than Trump, likely at least 95% of all men have lower social IQ than Trump, at least 98% of all men have less social status than Trump. In both good ways and in bad ways, Trump is truly exceptional. So I don’t see the point of likening the mass of ordinary men like myself with him.

I find a woman who will marry me, I better hang on tight to her. I do not have options like Brad Pitt. But society and culture are not supportive of her keeping her vows. In many cases, not even the local parish or congregation. Don’t talk to me about upper middle class and higher couples who have a better chance of staying together, I don’t live in that world. I live down here in the masses of hard working men where many of my friends have been divorced at least once and only one of those initiated it. Due to his wife’s adultery. For better or worse, this is the world I live in. Deal with it. You can start by not citing Trump as an example for the purpose of this thread topic.

 

[Xantippe]

You’re shifting the goal posts out of the stadium there. Nice.

I don’t excuse Trump’s personal conduct, do not put those words in my mouth. But I will say 98% of all men are shorter than Trump, 99.9% of all men are less rich than Trump, likely at least 95% of all men have lower social IQ than Trump, at least 98% of all men have less social status than Trump. In both good ways and in bad ways, Trump is truly exceptional. So I don’t see the point of likening the mass of ordinary men like myself with him.

I’m sorry if I was unclear. I wanted to point out that society is not punishing Donald Trump for his personal behavior.

I think that you’re greatly overestimating Trump’s social IQ, but that’s a subject for another day.

 

[edwest211]

Flagged. characters

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

I’m sorry if I was unclear. I wanted to point out that society is not punishing Donald Trump for his personal behavior.

The thread is about ordinary men versus a culture that visibly disrespects them. We don’t always make the right choices, but even when we do, we can still get raked over the coals.

Incentives matter. We have to live in this world and these are the incentives tilting the playing field against us. Today every man has either suffered or has watched other men suffer. Sure women suffer too, but if they were the ones who blew up the marriage as often happens, they get no sympathy from me, society gives them plenty, more than it should.

Women need men to commit, but if women continue to support other women who blow up marriages, well, with friends like that, who needs enemies. Men in turn need women to hold fast, to buck the tide, to stop listening to people constantly whispering in their ears about how disrespectable their husbands are. There are not nearly enough of those women. Women do exist who respect men and respect their husbands, when they do that, they’re going against the culture to do so and they should be admired for that. I admire women who do that and I would like one of those to be my wife. But our culture doesn’t extend them that admiration, doesn’t want them to feel good about that and makes it dang hard for men like me to find someone worth marrying and in turn makes it hard on women who tire of the men who won’t commit because of the tilted playing fields.

 

[edwest211]

Starting in earnest in the 1970s, fertile ground was prepared for No-Fault Divorce in the 1980s, and since then, more of the same. Feminists - Second Wave - have not helped women. Their primary goal was to destroy the family and to promote contraception and abortion.

Fear babies? Is that their best message? My body my choice? What about the man? He wasn’t there?

Us versus them thinking needs to stop. Find someone who shares your beliefs and values.

 

[Xantippe]

Today every man has either suffered or has watched other men suffer.

Yes, and every woman has either suffered or watched other women suffer. It’s tough all over and it’s not just guys who have to think long and hard about who they marry.

Catholic women, specifically, need to be more careful because of the possibility/probability of a large family and being unable to work full-time or keep their career going.

Women do exist who respect men and respect their husbands, when they do that, they’re going against the culture to do so and they should be admired for that. I admire women who do that and I would like one of those to be my wife. But our culture doesn’t extend them that admiration, doesn’t want them to feel good about that and makes it dang hard for men like me to find someone worth marrying and in turn makes it hard on women who tire of the men who won’t commit because of the tilted playing fields.

Men in general don’t deserve automatic respect, anymore than women in general deserve automatic respect. Civility, certainly, but not respect.

I think there are a lot of different subcultures in the US, and if that’s what you’re seeing, you may just be stuck in a bad one. I personally don’t see (public) disrespect from women toward their husbands, but I live in the Bible Belt in a primarily solidly middle class married peer group. My peers are respectful to their husbands in public, even if things aren’t very rosy at home. It’s just the culture. Doing otherwise is seen as trashy.

ZR, I have to say, you’ve been doing the Red Pill thing for a long time now. How is it working for you? On the one hand, you haven’t made a bad marriage, but you also don’t seem to be making any progress. At some point, it may be time to consider a different approach. Some of your Red Pill stuff is probably a positive (fitness, good clothes, dancing, etc.) but I wonder if your Red Pill stuff doesn’t make you negative and suspicious and closed-off in a way that makes it hard for you to bond with a good woman. None of us wants to be treated like police suspects by somebody we barely know.

 

[ewohdrol]

Women need men to commit, but if women continue to support other women who blow up marriages, well, with friends like that, who needs enemies. Men in turn need women to hold fast, to buck the tide, to stop listening to people constantly whispering in their ears about how disrespectable their husbands are. There are not nearly enough of those women. Women do exist who respect men and respect their husbands, when they do that, they’re going against the culture to do so and they should be admired for that. I admire women who do that and I would like one of those to be my wife. But our culture doesn’t extend them that admiration, doesn’t want them to feel good about that and makes it dang hard for men like me to find someone worth marrying and in turn makes it hard on women who tire of the men who won’t commit because of the tilted playing fields.

You are generalising an awful lot. Yes, some women don’t respect their husbands - but many do.

In my circle the only divorces that have occurred are because the husband cheated. That doesn’t give me the okay to blame all men for being sexually promiscuous. Anecdotal evidence from my personal small circle is not a good sample size.

OP modern marriages are different now. I don’t think many women are dying to marry a man that expects complete control or to be the ‘leader’. Why would she when she could marry someone respectful and wanting to be a true partnership. Having said that there are many happy marriages around us all where both partners are treated as individuals and respected.

I think your views on women are very one dimentional. Probably a massive turn off for many potential women.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Zzyzx_Road:

Today every man has either suffered or has watched other men suffer.

Yes, and every woman has either suffered or watched other women suffer. It’s tough all over and it’s not just guys who have to think long and hard about who they marry.

For the zillionth time: The law, government benefits, and social attitudes supports a woman leaving her husband for any reason whereas they punish a man, and they also encourage her to make false allegations against him by financially rewarding them.

Women do get bored with their husbands, and/or find someone else, and/or would like a new course in life. They want to keep the kids and house and much of his income, but they just don’t want him in the picture. Sure, it costs a bit of money to remove him, but that’s the choice she makes, and it’s a choice she can make. Such a choice is entirely denied a man - and that is the “tilted playing field”. Women do make that choice in vast numbers, including women who started the marriage in a Catholic church promising lifelong fidelity, respect for the husband, and openness to children.

Society even applauds women who make this choice and makes movies about them! I can’t say that Catholic women are as complicit in the applause as others, but they are prone to listen to excuses such as “he was an abuser”, “she was very unhappy”, etc. And kudos to the fine Catholic women who won’t have a bar of it, but they are a small minority.

This is why marriage is so dangerous for a man and he is a fool to ignore it or to, even worse, listen to the cajooling from women and even some men that:

“You’ll be alright if you pick a good woman and treat her right”. BS! It’s a siren call.

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And that is the last time I will attempt to explain that the background to this thread is not women’s failures etc, vs. men’s, but about the legal, financial and social outcome for them.

 

[edwest211]

If that’s all someone is worried about then don’t get married. In real life, however, you can meet someone, get to know them and if all looks good, talk about marriage. And that means forget the sex, talk about what both of you want and expect. Each person is different. And no arbitrary date for a decision either. Work it out, be honest.

No one should paint a “watch out men, they are all out to get you.” That’s false.

 

[Edmundus1581]

If that’s all someone is worried about then don’t get married.

Good we, agree.

If all a man is worried about is meeting a lovely girl who agrees with him on life goals, loves him very much, and agrees to Catholic marriage vows, only to change her mind after ten years and leave him, or to remain married but exploit and disrespect him, keeping him working hard while ruling the house and children herself, then don’t get married.

That’s MGTOW.

(and, for the zillion+1’th time, the grave problem is that this option is available to her, not whether wive’s or husbands are any better spouses or more prone to desertion).

 

[edwest211]

“grave problem” Right. And the man has been accused of doing the same thing.

 

[Lea101]

That’s MGTOW

The problem with mgtow is these men claim to be ‘going’ but they never actually ‘go’! They stick around online and whine. The community loves to shifts the blame onto women and pretend as if the husbands play no part in ruining the marriage. It’s always ‘she got bored’, but a random divorce out of the blue do not generally happen within a religion that tells women (and men) that they would go to hell for it.

Either God is calling you to marriage, or he isn’t. That’s your key focus. If you don’t resolve this yourself (what your vocation is) you’re just going to be bitter throughout because you seem like you want marriage but are not going for it because of the odds. Rather than you genuinely feeling like you’re meant to be single.

For any Catholic that’s trying to have a successful marriage, it’s hard to find someone out there.

Catholic women, specifically, need to be more careful because of the possibility/probability of a large family and being unable to work full-time or keep their career going.

Not to mention NFP, being expected to defer etc. I know more single traditional women in their 30s who kept delaying marriage because they couldn’t find a guy they’re comfortable with marrying. No surprise there.

It takes two for a successful marriage. And both men and women are screwing that up now.

 

[Edmundus1581]

“grave problem” Right. And the man has been accused of doing the same thing.

Yes, it often leads to the grave.

 

[edwest211]

That’s what Second Wave Feminists were telling women in the 1970s. Stay with him and not only will you get a bad life, you’ll be dead.

 

[edwest211]

And why are men and women not on the same page today? I found women who understood all that but they got massively confused by a bunch of total strangers who said, Listen to us. Apparently, mom and dad were no longer good enough.

 

[Edmundus1581]

That’s what Second Wave Feminists were telling women in the 1970s. Stay with him and not only will you get a bad life, you’ll be dead.

Thanks for the explanation behind the remark. Interesting.

Thanks, but I reject the comparison with the literal grave which does await many men entering marriage these days.

Good catch though

 

[Edmundus1581]

Xantippe:

Catholic women, specifically, need to be more careful because of the possibility/probability of a large family and being unable to work full-time or keep their career going.

Not to mention NFP, being expected to defer etc. I know more single traditional women in their 30s who kept delaying marriage because they couldn’t find a guy they’re comfortable with marrying. No surprise there.

Something else we can agree on!

It takes two for a successful marriage. And both men and women are screwing that up now.

I just don’t get how I have to keep going over this, so I won’t.