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Jupiter_Victor
Guest
and for the record I don’t like being referred to as a “homo” kindly refrain from doing so again.
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Peggy_in_Burien
Guest
She claims to be. Also, our two Democrat senators, Maria Cantwell and Patty Murray, claim to be Catholic, when it behooves them.
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Peggy_in_Burien
Guest
If you are going to accuse one of us of calling you that, then please, for the record quote that person.
That’s the polite way of making accusations here.
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Jupiter_Victor
Guest
Im a person… referring to us as ‘homos’ will get u nowhere!
it’s like calling a black person a N****r. we don’t appreciate it anymore than a black person does. so kindly refrain from doing so!
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Jerome_Fan
Guest
Well, at least get your facts straight - or maybe you prefer to list off rubbish that lives in your own imagination only. Out of the 200+ popes, we have had many saints, including PJII and our present pope is also a saint. Considering our line of popes goes right back over 2,000 years, they are a remarkable bunch of men. Political disturbances in one short period caused the position of pope to be usurped, but things were soon put right. No pope had same-sex relationships and I think one of the imposter popes was a married man. Over 2,000 years, that is good going! No pope ordered the killing innocent people, or of any people - let me know to what you are referring - it may just be more Protestant lies about the Catholic Church. Most of this rubbish comes from them. So, no offence, you are extraordinarily ignorant on this subject. Never mind there is a huge body of learning on this subject, most of which is freely available on the Internet. Listen in on The Vortex on Youtube - it is an excellent source of learning on this subject. As for your not believing in Hell - it does not need you to; but it usually means that it is exactly where you will end up. If you do not believe in Hell, then the Devil has convinced you that you can do what you like. Listen to the testimony of Marino Restrepo- also on Internet. It may wake you up to the truth. If not, God help you.
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Jerome_Fan
Guest
You cannot keep using the victim card. You were called homos for a very long time - it is a shortened version of what you are - homosexuals. I hope for the sake of your Immortal Soul that you are not a practising homo. If not, you are a suffering soul and maybe you could offer up your suffering with this regard for those homos who are doing deeds of darkness that will cost them their souls - they will spend their eternity in Hell.
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Rence
Guest
It is you who do not understand the leadership of the Church. The rules of the Church regarding homosexual couples is the same for heterosexual couples. In order for marriage to be valid in the eyes of the Church, and in order for sex to be valid in the eyes of the Church, two conditions must be met: 1) the unitive properties (which are NOT present in a homosexual couple physically), and 2) the procreative property (obviously not present in a homosexual couple). If you understood these two requirements, you would understand why the Church will NEVER change its views on homosexuality and “SSM”, and even heterosexual relationships that are not chaste. These same two requirements make artificial birth control against the rules for Catholics as well, even for married couples, and especially for married couples. The Church is not “sinning”. The Church has a specific teaching, like any other Church teaching.
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Nec5
Guest
It’s not “us” that we’re trying to get nowhere.
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Jupiter_Victor
Guest
your Joking right??? for a start off the top of my head one of the popes sent the papal army to get rid of the Medici cause the papacy was in debt to the Medici banks. and the pope thought the best way to deal with it was simply to kill them off!. thats just one example.
I kinda studied European History at uni…so ur not going to pull the wool over my eyes.
as for hell…well considering it has more in common with Greek Hades and Hel a goodess of the Nordic pantheon, you still don’t convince me. sorry
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SpeakInSilence
Guest
This is not true, 4-5 year olds have no concept of sexuality, and no research or study has proven differently.
Two, the tenets of Catholicism will not budge because of this oppression, and Conservative Catholicism is on the rise again since people are noticing the rot secular society has given us, (I’m included in those going back to the Church).
The U.S.A. in the near future will not longer represent the spear-head of the Catholic Church, but people from Asia and Africa who understand real pain.
If I ever see a Gay Pride parade where there was horrifying acts of public obscenity I might actually start taking homosexuals in the U.S. seriously.
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SpeakInSilence
Guest
This is some of the worst nonsense I’ve heard in a while, this is like the reasoning most secularist are using now a days. Just take a quick look at wikipedia to see how insanely wrong you sound at this point.your Joking right??? for a start off the top of my head one of the popes sent the papal army to get rid of the Medici cause the papacy was in debt to the Medici banks. and the pope thought the best way to deal with it was simply to kill them off!. thats just one example.
I kinda studied European History at uni…so ur not going to pull the wool over my eyes.
as for hell…well considering it has more in common with Greek Hades and Hel a goodess of the Nordic pantheon, you still don’t convince me. sorry
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Jupiter_Victor
Guest
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Jerome_Fan
Guest
You went to uni??? You know nothing of history; you seem to glean your facts from tabloids; which are usually Protestant and make up all sorts of rubbish about the Catholic Church, especially the Pope. The Pope never ordered the murder of anyone - this was a wild accusation made by one of the muddier tabloids in England. When I advised you to get informed, I meant ‘well’ informed! Ignorance of the true faith is ignorance of God. You seem to know nothing about God. It is up to you to find out the truth - which you will only find in the one true, apostolic faith (that means it is the faith given to the apostles by Jesus before He ascended into Heaven). All of the Truths are contained in the teachings of the Catholic Church. Read some of the popes’ encyclicals for some great reading! God bless.your Joking right??? for a start off the top of my head one of the popes sent the papal army to get rid of the Medici cause the papacy was in debt to the Medici banks. and the pope thought the best way to deal with it was simply to kill them off!. thats just one example.
I kinda studied European History at uni…so ur not going to pull the wool over my eyes.
as for hell…well considering it has more in common with Greek Hades and Hel a goodess of the Nordic pantheon, you still don’t convince me. sorry
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Jupiter_Victor
Guest
oh and then there is Clement V’s allience witht he french king in order to suppress the knights Templar on trumped up charges of heresy and paganism. the Pope knowing full well they would be put to death was blinded by greed.
he may not have drawn the sword himself but he was just as guilty!.
I could go on, BUT i think ive made my point
he may not have drawn the sword himself but he was just as guilty!.
I could go on, BUT i think ive made my point
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Rence
Guest
I don’t think you have, and I don’t have a dog in the fight with regards to SSM. Seriously, I couldn’t care any less. I’m just not called to fight about it either way. What do the crusades, inquisitions, etc. have anything at all to do with the teachings of the Church regarding SSM?oh and then there is Clement V’s allience witht he french king in order to suppress the knights Templar on trumped up charges of heresy and paganism. the Pope knowing full well they would be put to death was blinded by greed.
he may not have drawn the sword himself but he was just as guilty!.
I could go on, BUT i think ive made my point
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SpeakInSilence
Guest
Wikipedia reliability:yeah wikipedia…
um NO and NO and NO lol
nature.com/nature/britannica/index.html
jop.ascopubs.org/site/er/JOP000209.pdf
research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/results.htm
alumni.media.mit.edu/~fviegas/papers/history_flow.pdf
ipo.gov.uk/tm/t-decisionmaking/t-challenge/t-challenge-decision-results/o16907.pdf
To sum up, Wikipedia is a great source for people who have no idea what they are talking about, and for those who know how to use it effectively it can be a wonderful tool.
Every professor I’ve ever had said to use it as a secondary source, and that it’s a great achievement by a collective of individuals.
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Jerome_Fan
Guest
You have, my dear. You really need to do a course on Church history - Catholic Church history. It is fascinating and much more understandable than the rubbish you are coming up with. Of course, there is such a thing as invincible ignorance; which would mean that no matter what I said, you would merely dig deeper into your bag of rubbish on religion generally and the Catholic Church particularly. In which case, there is no point.oh and then there is Clement V’s allience witht he french king in order to suppress the knights Templar on trumped up charges of heresy and paganism. the Pope knowing full well they would be put to death was blinded by greed.
he may not have drawn the sword himself but he was just as guilty!.
I could go on, BUT i think ive made my point
On the off chance that you are a truth seeker; read Evangelium Vitae by Pope John Paul II for an understanding of the value of life and for a wonderfully inspired piece of writing. Well, of course it is inspired - by the Holy Spirit. And there are plenty more. God bless.
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Jupiter_Victor
Guest
it goes to show the church isn’t above breaking moral codes and laws when it suits her fancy to do so! so as I said b4 but I respect (to a point your faith) but Im not going to dictated to by a church where men have murdered their opponents (such as Pope Sergius III) to become pope. nor the other abuses of human rights through history.
the papacy has had to apologize for the stupid things she has done to various groups. it may take a thousand years but one day the church will be apologizing to the gay community too.
say what u want but the gay community is simply the “new Jews” for Catholics to try and oppress.
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rlg94086
Guest
From Cardinal Ratzinger:
catholicinsight.com/online/culture/article_621.shtml
*********** The issue is the rupture between sexuality and marriage. Separated from motherhood, sex has remained without locus and has lost its point of reference: it is a kind of drifting mine, a problem and at the same time an omnipresent power.
*
Man as product
*********** After the separation between sexuality and motherhood was effected, sexuality was also separated from procreation. The [technical] movement, however, ended up going in an opposite direction: procreation without sexuality. Out of this follow the increasingly shocking medical-technical experiments so prevalent in our day where, precisely, procreation is independent of sexuality. Biological manipulation is striving to uncouple man from nature (the very existence of which is being disputed). There is an attempt to transform man, to manipulate him as one does every other “thing”: he is nothing but a product planned according to one’s pleasure.
*********** At the end of this march to shatter fundamental, natural linkages (and not, as is said, only those that are cultural), there are unimaginable consequences which, however, derive from the very logic that lies at the base of a venture of this kind.
*
Equality of all forms of sexuality
*********** It logically follows from the consequences of a sexuality which is no longer linked to motherhood and to procreation, that every form of sexuality is equivalent and therefore of equal worth. It is. a matter. of lucidly drawing the consequences from the premises: it is, in fact, logical that pleasure, the libido of the individual, becomes the only possible point of reference of sex. No longer having an objective reason to justify it, sex seeks the subjective reason in the gratification of the desire, in the most “satisfying” answer for the individual, to the instincts no longer subject to rational restraints. Everyone is free to give to his personal libido the content considered suitable for himself.
*
They become “rights”
*********** Hence, it naturally follows that all forms of sexual gratification are transformed into the “rights” of the individual. Thus, to cite an especially current example, homosexuality becomes an inalienable right. Given the aforementioned premises, how can one deny it? On the contrary, its full recognition appears to be an aspect of human liberation.
*********** There are, however, other consequences of this uprooting of the human person in the depth of his nature. Fecundity separated from marriage based on a lifelong fidelity turns from being a blessing (as it was understood in every culture) into its opposite: that is to say a threat to the free development of the “individual’s right to happiness.” Thus, abortion, institutionalized, free and socially guaranteed, becomes another “right,” another form of “liberation.”*
*
A crisis within the Church
*********** The now dominant mentality attacks the very foundations of the morality of the Church, which, as I have already said, if she remains true to herself risks appearing like an anachronistic construct, a bothersome, alien body. Thus the moral theologians of the Western Hemisphere, in their efforts to still remain “credible” in our society, find themselves facing a difficult alternative: it seems to them that they must choose between opposing modern society and opposing the Magisterium.
The number of those who prefer the latter type of opposition is larger or smaller depending on how the question is posed: consequently they set out on a search for theories and systems that allow compromises between Catholicism and current conceptions. But this growing difference between the Magisterium and the “new” moral theologies leads to unforeseeable consequences, also precisely for the reason that the Church with her schools and her hospitals still occupies an important social role (especially in America). Thus we stand before the difficult alternative: either the Church finds an understanding, a compromise with the values propounded by society which she wants to continue to serve, or she decides to remain faithful to her own values (and in the Church’s view these are the values that protect man in his deepest needs) as the result of which she finds herself on the margin of society.
catholicinsight.com/online/culture/article_621.shtml
*********** The issue is the rupture between sexuality and marriage. Separated from motherhood, sex has remained without locus and has lost its point of reference: it is a kind of drifting mine, a problem and at the same time an omnipresent power.
*
Man as product
*********** After the separation between sexuality and motherhood was effected, sexuality was also separated from procreation. The [technical] movement, however, ended up going in an opposite direction: procreation without sexuality. Out of this follow the increasingly shocking medical-technical experiments so prevalent in our day where, precisely, procreation is independent of sexuality. Biological manipulation is striving to uncouple man from nature (the very existence of which is being disputed). There is an attempt to transform man, to manipulate him as one does every other “thing”: he is nothing but a product planned according to one’s pleasure.
*********** At the end of this march to shatter fundamental, natural linkages (and not, as is said, only those that are cultural), there are unimaginable consequences which, however, derive from the very logic that lies at the base of a venture of this kind.
*
Equality of all forms of sexuality
*********** It logically follows from the consequences of a sexuality which is no longer linked to motherhood and to procreation, that every form of sexuality is equivalent and therefore of equal worth. It is. a matter. of lucidly drawing the consequences from the premises: it is, in fact, logical that pleasure, the libido of the individual, becomes the only possible point of reference of sex. No longer having an objective reason to justify it, sex seeks the subjective reason in the gratification of the desire, in the most “satisfying” answer for the individual, to the instincts no longer subject to rational restraints. Everyone is free to give to his personal libido the content considered suitable for himself.
*
They become “rights”
*********** Hence, it naturally follows that all forms of sexual gratification are transformed into the “rights” of the individual. Thus, to cite an especially current example, homosexuality becomes an inalienable right. Given the aforementioned premises, how can one deny it? On the contrary, its full recognition appears to be an aspect of human liberation.
*********** There are, however, other consequences of this uprooting of the human person in the depth of his nature. Fecundity separated from marriage based on a lifelong fidelity turns from being a blessing (as it was understood in every culture) into its opposite: that is to say a threat to the free development of the “individual’s right to happiness.” Thus, abortion, institutionalized, free and socially guaranteed, becomes another “right,” another form of “liberation.”*
*
A crisis within the Church
*********** The now dominant mentality attacks the very foundations of the morality of the Church, which, as I have already said, if she remains true to herself risks appearing like an anachronistic construct, a bothersome, alien body. Thus the moral theologians of the Western Hemisphere, in their efforts to still remain “credible” in our society, find themselves facing a difficult alternative: it seems to them that they must choose between opposing modern society and opposing the Magisterium.
The number of those who prefer the latter type of opposition is larger or smaller depending on how the question is posed: consequently they set out on a search for theories and systems that allow compromises between Catholicism and current conceptions. But this growing difference between the Magisterium and the “new” moral theologies leads to unforeseeable consequences, also precisely for the reason that the Church with her schools and her hospitals still occupies an important social role (especially in America). Thus we stand before the difficult alternative: either the Church finds an understanding, a compromise with the values propounded by society which she wants to continue to serve, or she decides to remain faithful to her own values (and in the Church’s view these are the values that protect man in his deepest needs) as the result of which she finds herself on the margin of society.
J
Jerome_Fan
Guest
You have really bought into the victim scam, haven’t you? It is the only weapon you can use to get things past the liberals in government. Poor fools; when will they begin to stand up to that form of blackmail. You know the type ‘Unless you meet my demands that men are allowed to have sex with other men, I will call you a homophobe’! That is what I call, calling the victim card. It doesn’t change anything! It will never change hearts - right-thinking people find what you do utterly disgusting and the reasonable man in the street knows that homosexuals destroy the very fabric of the family, which makes up the fabric of the community. Those who indulge in homosexual acts are on the road to Hell, but before they go, they are going to destroy civilisation as we know it. In their wake, will be AIDS, suicide, devastated lives and a people miserable with guilt. Kantz taught that it is utterly destructive of the person to go against a direct teaching of God. See Leviticus 18 and what St Paul says about homosexuals never getting into heaven. These truths will never change, no matter how you whinge about them, play the victim or blackmail weak politicians into giving into your demands. God help you.
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