Washington State makes 7th - gay marriage

[scipio337]

Not just DOMA, but by allowing government recognition of a religious issue to become a mainstream desire by everyone. If marriage was dealt with only by the religious institution and there was no precedent set to give government the ability to regulate it then we wouldn’t be having this problem. Religiously these marriages are invalid anyway, so this only matters legislatively.

People don’t realize that if you cherish something, giving that something to government to protect outside of its normal physical capabilities of military protection which is dangerous itself, is just stupid.

But state governments have issued all marriage licenses, from time out of mind. I’m not sure how the issue was “given” to government.

Legislators have been REactive to the issue. DOMA was a REaction to Baehr v. Miike, and “gay marriage” advocates threatening to use the full faith and credit clause to have them recognized in all states. Some states countered having defined tradtional marriage as “unconstitutional” by amending their state constitutions (as was done in CA).

I don’t think the issue has been “given” to government, by any means. I believe it was a reaction, born of necessity.

 

[bbarrick8383]

But state governments have issued all marriage licenses, from time out of mind. I’m not sure how the issue was “given” to government.

If I’m not mistaken there was a time where many places the certificate was handed out by the Church in which you were married.

Legislators have been REactive to the issue. DOMA was a REaction to Baehr v. Miike, and “gay marriage” advocates threatening to use the full faith and credit clause to have them recognized in all states. Some states countered having defined tradtional marriage as “unconstitutional” by amending their state constitutions (as was done in CA).

I don’t think the issue has been “given” to government, by any means. I believe it was a reaction, born of necessity.

Reacting to government with government is like asking for more lions while being mauled by a lion.

 

[Lokabrenna]

latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2012/02/washington-governor-signs-law-legalizing-same-sex-marriage.html

Washington State becomes the seventh state - this state passed and signed gay marriage into law which becomes effective June7.(Vermont, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, Iowa, Connecticut and Washington D. C.)

Delaware passed civil union a few months ago and it goes on and on.

I hope to see the day when marriage equality is the law of the land in America! (Even though I’m Canadian.)

 

[scipio337]

I hope to see the day when marriage equality is the law of the land in America! (Even though I’m Canadian.)

Vanic Pagan

Shocker! We already have marriage equality in the US. People of all ethnic backgrounds are able to marry one person of the opposite sex.

 

[scipio337]

If I’m not mistaken there was a time where many places the certificate was handed out by the Church in which you were married.

Reacting to government with government is like asking for more lions while being mauled by a lion.

So what’s the viable solution, when government/courts is the vehicle that others are using on the vast majority, who don’t support SSM?

Allow it on a government level, and just be happy that the Church doesn’t recognize such unions?

 

[bbarrick8383]

So what’s the viable solution, when government/courts is the vehicle that others are using on the vast majority, who don’t support SSM?

Allow it on a government level, and just be happy that the Church doesn’t recognize such unions?

At this point fight to get government out of it completely before we end up with an Obama administration or one like it, cramming it down our throats. Get rid of the idea that marriage is only acceptable if government approves it. Get rid of this idea that government has a responsibility to protect marriage and realize that the only entity that can and will protect marriage is the Church. All these Christians are complaining about how they are under secular attack by government, but turn around and beg for government to protect what should be a religious issue only. If marriage, or anything else is that important, getting government involved in the name of protection does not make any sense at all.

 

[Lokabrenna]

Shocker! We already have marriage equality in the US. People of all ethnic backgrounds are able to marry one person of the opposite sex.

But some of those people aren’t free to marry a consenting adult that they love, which is what we have in Canada now, and yes, religious institutions are still free to refuse to marry whoever doesn’t meet their requirements.

 

[rlg94086]

At this point fight to get government out of it completely before we end up with an Obama administration or one like it, cramming it down our throats. Get rid of the idea that marriage is only acceptable if government approves it. Get rid of this idea that government has a responsibility to protect marriage and realize that the only entity that can and will protect marriage is the Church. All these Christians are complaining about how they are under secular attack by government, but turn around and beg for government to protect what should be a religious issue only. If marriage, or anything else is that important, getting government involved in the name of protection does not make any sense at all.

The problem with your argument is the faulty claim that marriage “should be a religious issue only.” The family is the core unit of society, and marriage marriage is a societal good. If you read the excerpt from Cardinal Ratzinger I posted, you can see how Satan’s dupes changed the very core of sexuality and marriage, starting the meltdown process.

 

[bbarrick8383]

The problem with your argument is the faulty claim that marriage “should be a religious issue only.” The family is the core unit of society, and marriage marriage is a societal good. If you read the excerpt from Cardinal Ratzinger I posted, you can see how Satan’s dupes changed the very core of sexuality and marriage, starting the meltdown process.

Of course it is.

Religion is a societal good as well, do you want government involved in making sure that everyone is practicing some sort of religion?

Go ahead, fight the government over this. My states fairly safe until you guys lose at the federal level then I’m going to be upset. In the meantime get them to protect the unborn while their at it.

 

[scipio337]

At this point fight to get government out of it completely before we end up with an Obama administration or one like it, cramming it down our throats. Get rid of the idea that marriage is only acceptable if government approves it. Get rid of this idea that government has a responsibility to protect marriage and realize that the only entity that can and will protect marriage is the Church. All these Christians are complaining about how they are under secular attack by government, but turn around and beg for government to protect what should be a religious issue only. If marriage, or anything else is that important, getting government involved in the name of protection does not make any sense at all.

I’m not sure how you do that. Allow government to issue “Civil Unions for all”, and leave marriages up the the churches? Fine by me, but I wonder how long it takes for “discrimination” lawsuits to be brought for denying church weddings.

The Church can still protect marriage as a Sacrament, but that doesn’t mean that SSM still won’t be forced as a public issue.

“Goverment” and the courts are being used to protect it, because it’s the vehicle by which marriage is being attacked.

 

[scipio337]

Of course it is.

Religion is a societal good as well, do you want government involved in making sure that everyone is practicing some sort of religion?

Go ahead, fight the government over this. My states fairly safe until you guys lose at the federal level then I’m going to be upset. In the meantime get them to protect the unborn while their at it.

But b, your state was already “not safe” because Baehr v. Miike would have forced OK to recognize same sex marriages from HI.

The gay marriage supporters were the first to make this a federal issue. Pandora’s box has been opened, how do you shut it?

 

[Julia_Mae]

This is not true, 4-5 year olds have no concept of sexuality, and no research or study has proven differently…

This is unprovable. They do of course have a concept of gender identity and they have that even earlier. 4-5 year olds play house. Possibly you think being gay has everything to do with genitalia instead of having to do with the person with whom you make your primary emotional bond. It’s quite common for little children to say when they grow up they will “marry” their moms or dads, and this has nothing to do with sex.

It’s very common for gay adults to report having big “crushes” on TV stars or people in their lives of the same gender and wanting to marry them when they grow up.

 

[bbarrick8383]

I’m not sure how you do that. Allow government to issue “Civil Unions for all”, and leave marriages up the the churches? Fine by me, but I wonder how long it takes for “discrimination” lawsuits to be brought for denying church weddings.

The Church can still protect marriage as a Sacrament, but that doesn’t mean that SSM still won’t be forced as a public issue.

“Goverment” and the courts are being used to protect it, because it’s the vehicle by which marriage is being attacked.

So marriage licensing by government is only to prevent discrimination? I would hope that we are creative enough to protect individuals from discrimination without giving up control of a religious subject that’s so important.

We can’t stop any two individuals from entering a legal binding contract so long as they both agree to it for whatever reason.

Marriage is a religious issue, and religions wish to protect it, they will keep it away from the vehicle that’s trying to run it over.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Again, I am amazed at your ignorance, which may have been due to your being bullied. I say this in a Christian way. Homosexuality is the word used in the bible in both Leviticus - the Old Testament and in St Paul - the New Testament. Sorry, you are wrong again.

No, he’s correct. There was no word for “homosexuality” in Greek. There are ways of referring to same gender practices in Hebrew, but I don’t recall them having a word for it, either. But for sure there was no Greek word. But of course, the description of the acts is not mistakeable.

 

[rlg94086]

Of course it is.

Religion is a societal good as well, do you want government involved in making sure that everyone is practicing some sort of religion?

Poor argument. The First Amendment (government) was ratified to protect religion because it is a societal good. Early involvement on that one.

bbarrick8383:

Go ahead, fight the government over this. My states fairly safe until you guys lose at the federal level then I’m going to be upset. In the meantime get them to protect the unborn while their at it.

Of course I’m going to fight for the unborn. Your state is not safe, because of what is going on in other states. Standing by and doing nothing won’t save you.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

 

[bbarrick8383]

But b, your state was already “not safe” because Baehr v. Miike would have forced OK to recognize same sex marriages from HI.

The gay marriage supporters were the first to make this a federal issue. Pandora’s box has been opened, how do you shut it?

Make marriage a religious institution free from government regulation. At this point its going to take a lot of work, and may be impossible. But it’s better than crying about government intervention and advocating government intervention at the same time.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Small correction in the case of Washington State. In 2010 the people of the state voted for civil unions that were “everything, but marriage.” However, what the two houses in the State legislature passed (and was signed by Gov. Christine Gregoire today) is a “marriage equality” bill that allows for marriages–as defined by the State of Washington–to include the marriages between two men or two women. .

That’s interesting, they must have previous language defining the word “marriage” if it’s actually used in the language of the Bill. A large number of states did not. However, it’s still a definition of a civil contract, not a Church Sacrament, as you also said, I believe.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Poor argument. The First Amendment (government) was ratified to protect religion because it is a societal good. Early involvement on that one.

I’m all for an argument protecting marriage as a religious only institution and keeping it from government regulation. Good luck on that end.

Of course I’m going to fight for the unborn. Your state is not safe, because of what is going on in other states. Standing by and doing nothing won’t save you.

I’m not advocating that we stand by and do nothing. I’m advocating that we push a more libertarian approach to marriage, get government out of it. Just like they need to be kept away from the unborn.

 

[Julia_Mae]

But state governments have issued all marriage licenses, from time out of mind. .

No, they actually haven’t. If you do a genealogy study in your family, for instance, it would all be so very much simpler if states had issued marriage licenses for us to look up. They didn’t, I’m not sure when states got involved. Probably as an issue of inheritance, I imagine.

 

[Publisher]

Oregon and California will follow soon. With the decision in regard to Prop8 in CA…marriage equality will soon be a reality in CA Right now in Oregon, domestic partnerships offers most…but not all…of the rights straight married couples have.

In Oregon the ammendment to the State constitution would need to be changed…which will occur through the courts OR repeal of the ban on same-sex marriage, which won’t happen for a few years…now that Washington has legalized same sex marriage, Oregon will move closer to marriage equality as Vancouver is right across the river from Portland and many same sex couples will go to Washington to marry.

From what I have read, New Jersey is going to place it on the ballot…unless it is challenged in the courts. Right now NJ does allow civil unions…eventually marriage will be allowed for same sex couples.

State by state is how the battle will be waged…until the SCOTUS hears a case and rules in favor of same sex marriage…which will open it to all 50 states…gay marriage advocates hope the SCOTUS will hear the case from CA Prop 8…however it is doubtful the SCOTUS will consent to hear a case in the near future.