What did Jesus bring to the world that was not already brought by Moses?

[daler]

Daler, you’ve mentioned all this before in other threads. Perhaps you should refer Joe371 to those threads.

Besides there is no mention of Moses.

MJ

Martin,
. I apologize for repeating myself here. Please forgive me for attempting to answer Joe’s questions on this thread which are off topic. Perhaps some other thread could be created which would welcome pursuance of such questions appropriate to a wider interest held by a diverse audience.

. It seems that in matters of Faith, there is a tendency for people to want to talk about what’s on their mind. People have a need to share what it is that excites them about “God” and what it is that is particularly convincing to them about a certain path which has led them to where they are currently at in their beliefs.

. Would that we could all meet each other in a coffee shop somewhere and get to know each other as “people”, not just words typed on a keyboard, which is so limiting.

God bless, brother,
Dale

.

 

[Servant19]

the new commandment given by Jesus is that we love one another as He has loved us.

I have already acknowledged the new commandment as being new to Jesus, Eddie, why are you playing this game?

Also in response to Joe, with the new commandment in John 13:

---

Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you. 34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. 35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.***

…where Jesus says that “all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another”, He is clearly talking about His disciples showing forth love to His disciples only. A question to ponder if this commandment was intended to be universal. Obviously this does not reflect reality since most Christians I know show loving regard for all, universally, but is this necessarily the teaching of the new commandment?

the communion brought by Jesus did NOT exist before He instituted it at the last supper.

I am kindly asking a question here Eddie. What is the difference between the communion offered through Christ, and the communion Melterboy says is offered through the Torah in posts #185 and #189?

the salvation of souls did not exist until Jesus offered Himself for our salvation. the jews recognized their sinfulness, but they used burnt offerings to try and ameliorate the just judgment they knew was incurred by their sins. through Jesus’ infinite sacrifice we are assured that full reparation has been made in justice for our sins. this is what Jesus taught us.

Eddie, how can you deny what the Jews are adamant about? They put hand on heart and declare that salvation DID exist before Jesus.

When you say that “full reparation has been made in justice for our sins” what do you mean by this? Can one rely on this full reparation and do what they want as long as they have committed Jesus into their lives? We are all sinners. What does Jesus give us as sinners and evil-doers?

Jesus started the RCC. no one else did that.

…this is true. He also started the Christian religion, which is NOT the Jewish religion. So I guess that is new.

 

[Servant19]

as for my comments about the hundreds of thousands of untranslated pages of bahaullah’s writing, i was just repeating what a bahai had told me. if it is untrue, why do you not say that?

Yes, you do KEEP saying this. You think there are no Baha’i scholars in the world who are masters of Arabic and Farsi (the original language of Baha’u’llahs verses)? I can think of 2 friends and 1 relative of mine who have read absolutely everything that was revealed by Baha’u’llah in its original language. And I live in the middle of nowhere. I think in Iran, there are literally thousands of such people.

Secondly, the main crux of what was revealed has been translated into English through an authorised translator, appointed by Baha’u’llah’s Son (the Centre of His Covenant) to carry out such a task. I assure you there is nothing in the untranslated stuff that will be shocking or surprising to any of the English readers…

if it is true, how can a person deny that there could be verses that change what the bahai currently understand the teachings of bahaullah to be.

if it is true, who can dispute how any human being could be come familiar enough with hundreds of thousands of pages so as to understand the essential impact of verses and content in one of the hundreds of thousands of pages to that in another of the hundreds of thousands of pages. there must be millions of individual verses written by bahaullah.

See above.

you ask a question, then you say, but eddie i do not like your answers, what do they mean. the means for learning more about my answers are available to anyone who wishes to do so. the internet is a wonderful thing.

I would like your understanding since you are questioning my motives…

i recognize that your ignorance of the teachings of Jesus Christ and His RCC are great impediments to your understanding of them. but, you are complicit in your ignorance.

If you wish to reduce me to apologizing for my ignorance, I am happy to. I apologize for my ignorance. Please teach me…

the very fact that you do not know that Jesus instituted the communion of His followers with Himself through the unbloody sacrifice of the altar is sufficient evidence that a mere blog about Jesus Christ, His teachings and His Church is not the method needed for you to gain enough understanding for your comments about Jesus Christ to have any weight beyond that of the meaning of the old adage that, “even a blind sow finds an acorn once in a while”. in other words, it is mere chance if one of your comments reflect accurately the life and teachings of Jesus Christ or His Church.

I’m not receiving my information from a blog. If you think I am show me which one?
I understand that there is no more bloody sacrifices at the altar through Jesus. What is Jesus’ alternative?

for example, the Jews were not saved before the time of Christ. there salvation awaits the coming of the Messiah.

Tell me what salvation Jesus can give them? They are awaiting a physical salvation on earth from the Messiah. Did Jesus give that? The Jews have been subjected to innumerable tyrannies in the past 2000 years. How is Jesus their Messiah?

so, withdraw in to your poor me, see how i am misunderstood attitude, but realize your hurt feelings are a result of your ignorance. they are not a result of RCCs answering your questions. many of the questions you ask would be more than adequately explained in a good RCIA class.

but, you are not here to learn about the RCC. you are here to try and lead souls away from the RCC.

sometimes i come across as brusque to those whose ignorance cause them to repeatedly accost people who speak the truth to them. but, more is at stake than your feelings. it is possible that the words you speak from your ignorance could create confusion and doubt in people who do not have great knowledge of their faith, but nonetheless have great faith.

so, you may carry on, but if you expect me to allow your ignorance of Jesus Christ and the RCC to go unchallendged, you are going to be greatly disappointed.

you accuse me of attacking you and your faith, but if you look again at my posts, they are filled with questions. if i have bad information about the bahai, you seem able to correct it. why do not you?

I expect you to provide rational responses to my ignorance.
I do not correct you on bad information on the Baha’i Faith because this is not a Baha’i thread.

You are the one asking questions and pointing fingers at the Baha’is and I have repeatedly tried to avoid any mention of Baha’i in this thread. Go ahead and go back and have a look.

 

[Servant19]

The question I asked had to do with your understanding of what inspired Scripture means. You didn’t answer that.

I think inspired Scripture “relies” on a Messenger of God. So Paul’s inspiration relies on Jesus. Without Jesus, there is no inspiration for Paul. Paul is not the actual “inspiration” itself. As a result, He provides certain Truths which are reliant on the condition of His spiritual inspiration from Jesus. He is not privy to “absolute” Truth, and if he infers that Jesus is greater than Moses, we need to understand in which context he is referring to.

If Paul is trying to say that Moses was not privy to the teachings of Jesus, then I think Paul is wrong, simply because Paul cannot know who Moses truly was, nor what He was privy to. Only God does.

If Paul was trying to infer that the light of the Teachings of Jesus was more potent than the light of the Teachings of Moses, then we can assess that from an objective standpoint ourselves and come to an objective conclusion.

Inspiration does not mean “infallible” by any sense of the word. Paul can right all he likes about who he thinks Moses was and some things he would write may be correct, yet some things are incorrect.

It is important to differentiate inspiration from imagination. Intention may well be pure from Paul’s standpoint, and as he writes he has Jesus’ interests as a foremost priority in his mind and heart, yet, like all humans, there are times when the absolute Truth is not contained within that inspiration, since vain imagination can so easily interfere.

How would you differentiate bewteen inspiration and vain imagination?

The thread topic, of which you are the OP, has to do with Moses and Jesus. Instead, as I suspected, you immediately make this about Baha’u’llah and the Baha’i faith. Like I said, this is nothing more than Baha’i thread number VI in sheep’s clothing. You aren’t here to discuss what Jesus brought to the world that Moses did not. You are here to promote your religion.

This is unfair Steve. I have tried to be extremely strict in regards to talking about my Faith in this thread. Yes, the thread was inspired by Eddies’ persitence in asking “What has Baha’u’llah brought to the world that is new?” yet I made a conscious decision to stick to comaparing Judaism with Christianity in this thread.

If you go back, I have asked Eddie on more than one occasion to address his Baha’u’llah accusations on another thread. Yet, again, you see on the previous page how he is insisting to do so on this thread. Eventually, one has to bow to pressure and respond.

I hope you see with the eyes of justice

 

[doormouse73]

Servant

You and the Baha’is on here said that you don’t believe in sin.
Now a couple of times I see you use the word we when you are talking about sin.

I’ve seen enough on here to see the way Jesus talked about the hypocrites and you and the likes are exactly them.

Now take this as you want to and if I get points for this post for being uncharitable then so be it,

You and your likes are here to mud the water and divide. It’s not happening you see because truth prevails, hypocrites get found out for who they are with there intentions.

 

[Servant19]

Hi doormouse, where did I say I do not believe in sin?

 

[MartinJordan]

Servant19, based on my query if you were writing a thesis and requested you to go for RCIA. in post #13, you replied me:

I would love to do RCIA, but I’m not even close to a tenth of the way through studying the Revelation of Baha’u’llah on a day to day basis!!

Are you really interested in learning what Christianity (in this case what Catholicism teaches) or what is your real intention here?

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Servant19, based on my query if you were writing a thesis and requested you to go for RCIA. in post #13, you replied me:

Are you really interested in learning what Christianity (in this case what Catholicism teaches) or what is your real intention here?

MJ

Hi MJ, my initial intention was to answer questions on the Baha’i thread, and I realised there is a lot of pre-judging and misunderstandings going on here on CAF regarding all other religions (just scroll through the Non-Catholics section for examples), so I am here to assist in the process of “understanding” from a perspective that most Catholics may not have looked at.

It seems this perspective is causing some angst, and I hope that I have not been uncharitable, or insulting in my posts in the process, but we are all human beings, and we should welcome diversity of culture, language, thought, and belief shouldn’t we?

 

[Servant19]

MJ, I’m baffled as to what I have done for doormouse to risk getting points?

 

[Servant19]

One last thing MJ, I genuinely would love to do RCIA. I am simply struggling for time.

 

[MartinJordan]

Hi MJ, my initial intention was to answer questions on the Baha’i thread, and I realised there is a lot of pre-judging and misunderstandings going on here on CAF regarding all other religions (just scroll through the Non-Catholics section for examples), so I am here to assist in the process of “understanding” from a perspective that most Catholics may not have looked at.

It seems this perspective is causing some angst, and I hope that I have not been uncharitable, or insulting in my posts in the process, but we are all human beings, and we should welcome diversity of culture, language, thought, and belief shouldn’t we?

Thanks for your quick response and I will give you the benefit of the doubt in your sincerity.

However, I would really suggest you do not speak for other religions. You aren’t a spokesperson.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

One last thing MJ, I genuinely would love to do RCIA. I am simply struggling for time.

I think you can. Take a break from CAF?

MJ

 

[daisychain]

Hi MJ, my initial intention was to answer questions on the Baha’i thread, and I realised there is a lot of pre-judging and misunderstandings going on here on CAF regarding all other religions (just scroll through the Non-Catholics section for examples), so I am here to assist in the process of “understanding” from a perspective that most Catholics may not have looked at.

I’ve been a silent observer and I’d like to thank you for sharing about your faith here with us! I agree, I think learning to understand each other a bit better can only bring us together in peace.

 

[Servant19]

I’ve been a silent observer and I’d like to thank you for sharing about your faith here with us! I agree, I think learning to understand each other a bit better can only bring us together in peace.

Thankyou daisychain, I appreciate the gesture.

I would like to assert that this thread was not started to share my Faith, it was started to objectively analyse the flow of God’s Teachings from one religion to another.

A few days ago, I was thinking about starting a thread entitled “What did Muhammad bring to the world that was not already brought by Jesus?”…but I decided aginst this one for now

God bless you

 

[Servant19]

Thanks for your quick response and I will give you the benefit of the doubt in your sincerity.

However, I would really suggest you do not speak for other religions. You aren’t a spokesperson.

MJ

Where have I spoken for other religions?
In which case, what makes you a spokesperson for Islam?

 

[MartinJordan]

I’ve been a silent observer and I’d like to thank you for sharing about your faith here with us! I agree, I think learning to understand each other a bit better can only bring us together in peace.

Hi. There are threads specifically for other faiths. You can check them out

MJ

 

[Servant19]

I think you can. Take a break from CAF?

MJ

But it was CAF that has inspired me to take an Emery University course on Christianity by Professor Luke Timothy Johnson.

I also feel that learning about a religion should be open for exploration with others. If you’ve done RCIA, I would hope that we could have a dialogue where my questions are answered in a manner that will promote and enhance my understanding of Catholicism.

For all the RCIA graduates here, I wonder why my understanding is not being enhanced, but rather I am being insulted with uncharitable remarks and my Faith is being denigrated?

 

[MartinJordan]

Where have I spoken for other religions?
In which case, what makes you a spokesperson for Islam?

Didn’t you just say you were?

Ive never spoken for Islam…always defended Catholicism from Islam.

MJ

 

[daler]

I’ve been a silent observer and I’d like to thank you for sharing about your faith here with us! I agree, I think learning to understand each other a bit better can only bring us together in peace.

Dear Daisy,
. What a breath of fresh air you breath into the garden of the hearts here by saying such a remarkably kind welcome to folks of different perspective and beliefs about things. The cultural variations are alone massive mines of new knowledge and fear is the only thing which can account for the level o fear of learning what others believe.

. When soon we partake of thanksgiving dinner, we share not only fellowship, but food of a wide variety to put into our mouths and digest with our bellies. When people sample and study other’s beliefs they are truly blessed, enriched, and broadened immensely.

. The diversity among God’s creatures invites our curiosity and good will, which is always welcome. How many beautiful souls created by God have I enjoyed great friendships over the years. Taking the time with people yields rich and varied rewards and much fuller appreciation of God’s creation. I’d encourage everyone this weekend to visit a church or synagogue, mosque or temple. This is a human Thanksgiving, praising God for the diversity of our human family. Sooo much to gain.

God lbless eveyonw.

 

[Servant19]

Didn’t you just say you were?

Ive never spoken for Islam…always defended Catholicism from Islam.

MJ

You said the following:

Thanks for your quick response and I will give you the benefit of the doubt in your sincerity.

However, I would really suggest you do not speak for other religions. You aren’t a spokesperson.

MJ

What religion were you implying that I am not a spokesperson for?