What did Jesus bring to the world that was not already brought by Moses?

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SteveVH said:
You’re going to have to do better than that. Please provide your sources which allow you to make such a statement? The Bible is one of the most well documented books of antiquity.
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If I may try to explain Steve, there is a difference between being “inspired” by the Holy Spirit, and being the embodiment of the Most Great Spirit which symbolized in the Zoroastrian, Mosaic, the Christian and Mohammedan Faiths as the sacred Fire, the Burning Bush, the Dove and the angel Gabriel respectively, descended upon and revealed itself, personated by a ‘Maiden’ to the agonised soul of Baha’u’llah…
“whenever I chose to hold my peace and be still to the voice of the Holy Spirit, standing in My right hand aroused me, and the Most Great Spirit appeared before My face and Gabriel overshadowed me and the Spirit of Glory stirred within My bosom, bidding me arise and break My silence.”***

…it is evident that it is not the will of the human to speak forth in these situations (as is the case with Paul and the Apostles), but rather the Most Great Spirit “compells” the Divine Person to speak. It is evident one is a more authentic Voice of God than the other.
 
eddie_too said:
servant asks what Jesus brought that moses did not bring.

i answered with a half dozen factual gifts that Jesus gave us that moses did not and could not give us.

but servant offers, i conclude what Jesus brought was a spirit of love for all.

while that is accurate, since the Holy Spirit is love, it is hardly and acknowledgement of the many other, some quite concrete, gifts that Jesus gave us.

should i be insulted or upset that servant completely ignored all of the other examples of the new gifts Jesus gave mankind? no. why should i be upset?

servant clearly has his own agenda and asking questions, ignoring most answers and summarizing his own answer for us is clearly servant’s game.

this thread does not seem ever to have been out the question posed by servant.
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Ok Eddie, lets do this 🙂

I did not ignore your posts. The fact is that all your posts were either meaningless and required more information OR they were dealt with BEFORE you started posting on this thread. I’m pretty confident you didn’t read any of the thread before you started posting, flinging accusations at me and my character (which I think is terribly unfair and unkind) and here’s why…(see below)
 
eddie_too said:
Jesus gave us communion with His body and blood.
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You’re trying to tell me that there was no communion between the Jews and God before Jesus?

Come on, Eddie, give more information as to what you exactly mean please.
 
eddie_too said:
Jesus gave us the Way, the Truth and the Life.
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What does this mean Eddie?

You’re seriously telling me that the Jews are wayward, lost, filled with falsehood and have no life?

What was the “way” that Jesus gave that was different from the Jewish “way”?
 
eddie_too said:
Jesus gave us the Roman Catholic Church.
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I’m sure there are a billion lovers of Christ that would say “Why Roman Catholic”?

If the Church is the “body of believers” of Christ (as attested to by most Christians), then the Jews had a similar “body of believers”. They were not called a “Church” however…
 
eddie_too said:
Jesus gave us knowledge of the most Holy Trinity, the essence of our Creator.
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This is fair enough Eddie. I’m comfortable that Jesus certainly did provide further insight into the nature and relationship between God, the Holy Spirit and God’s Messengers. Don’t jump on me here, I know the Trinity refers to the Son and only the Son, but if it was only about the Son, then there is nothing new that Jesus brought, because Jews reject the concept of Sonship, and the Person of Jesus
 
MartinJordan said:
Did Moses promise everlasting life by the giving of himself? 🙂

MJ
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Again, did Jews not have everlasting life before Jesus’ coming?
Whats sort of a just God would kill all the saintly souls before Jesus, simply because Jesus had not come yet to give of himself for the souls of men?
 
eddie_too said:
bahaullah wrote hundreds of thousands of pages of words.

most bahai are familiar with only a small percentage of bahuallah’s writings, yet they act as though what they understand of bahaullah’s writings is correct and whatever else in contained in the hundreds of thousands of pages could not possibly change their very limited understanding of bahullah.

it is fair to believe that no human being has read all that bahaullah wrote, much less interpreted it and studied it for nuances and consistency.
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eddie_too said:
no follower of bahaullah has ever presented a convincing argument for believing bahaullah was divinely inspired and given supernatural understanding of reality, as opposed to providing a human inspired, natural understanding of reality.

flowery words and bold claims and assertions can be produced by many humans naturally. they have little significance or value when evaluating an individual’s spiritual claims.
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eddie_too said:
so, it is clear that Jesus gave us much that moses did not and could not give us.

it is equally clear that bahaullah added nothing essential to the teachings, the life and the death and resurrection of Jesus.

the unification of the world has been taught and proposed by many. there is nothing supernatural about such a teaching.

before and at the time of Christ and ever since, there have been people who teach that the our bodies are not raised from the grave. that is a natural teaching, not a supernatural teaching.

i think if you took away from bahaullah’s writing the phrases and words where he is praising himself and his own greatness, it would reduce bahaullahs writings by about 95%.
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All of these things stated here are false Eddie. If you wish to start another thread that is related to the points you raise here, then I am happy to address all of them for you 🙂
 
eddie_too said:
i was not the one who first said bahaullah wrote hundreds of thousands of pages, most of which had not been translated from their original languages.

is it a falsehood to ask how a bahai, not familiar with the language of origin, could know what those hundreds of thousands of pages contain?

is it a falsehood to ask why a person would believe that the miniscule (relative to the whole) amount of writings that have been translated contain all of the understanding necessary for knowing exactly what bahaullah might have revealed in the hundreds of thousands of untranslated pages?

is it a falsehood to ponder exactly how many human beings have studied all of the hundreds of thousands of pages written by bahaullah?

is it a falsehood to wonder why a person would accept as absolute truth a small minority of another person’s writings while being ignorant of the vast majority of the same person’s writings?

is it true or not (what another bahai wrote) that bahaullah wrote hundreds of thousands of pages and that the vast majority of those writings have not been translated from the original?

is it unreasonable to question whether any human being can be intimately familiar with the contents of hundreds of thousands of pages written by someone else.

the new testament is not even a thousand pages, but tens of thousands of men and women have written hundreds of thousands of words about the contents, the meanings and the intepretations of the new testament.

bahaullah wrote hundreds of thousands of pages and, to the best of my knowledge, no one has even read them all, nor has anyone tried to relate all of bahaullah’s writings one to the thousands of others.

these are not falsehoods. mostly they are just questions related to the reasonableness and reliability of the bahai faith?

it seems bahai do not want to engage in intellectual discussion with those who disagree with them, but prefer to charge non-bahai with charges of deceit and ill will.

answer the questions. i answered your question, although not exhaustively, about what did Jesus bring that moses did not bring.
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Again Eddie, I am happy to address all these false accustations against the Bahai Faith for you, but in the appropriate thread. Thankyou 🙂
 
Servant19 said:
Actually…

Daniel 12:2–

"Many of those that sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to eternal life, others to reproaches, to everlasting abhorrence"
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When did the following occur in your opinion?

“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise[a] will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. 4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”
 
Servant19 said:
Actually forgiveness of all sin has been provided by Moses already:
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I suppose you should look no further than Moses, if this is what you truly believe. 🙂 I was always led to believe (by both Christians and Jews) that the Jewish people during the time of Moses and beyond, were looking forward to something greater, namely the Messiah/Davidic King? For Christians He has already arrived. However the Jewish people are still waiting for that fateful day.
 
Servant19 said:
Thankyou dear friends, but Jews do not believe in original sin. :confused:

So there is nothing to be redeemed from…
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Well, if that is true then Jesus died for nothing and most importantly, He was not who He claimed to be, which makes Christianity nothing more than a man-made religion. :eek:🤷
 
joe371 said:
I suppose you should look no further than Moses, if this is what you truly believe. 🙂 I was always led to believe (by both Christians and Jews) that the Jewish people during the time of Moses and beyond, were looking forward to something greater, namely the Messiah/Davidic King? For Christians He has already arrived. However the Jewish people are still waiting for that fateful day.
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Hi Joe, I am totally in agreement with you. All religions promise the coming of something greater, yet when that “greater” arrives, they all turn their back and shun Him.

Believe it or not, this thread is intended to introduce this whole concept, and for us all to reflect more deeply on this concept, that of grounds for rejection of those who claim to be the embodiment of the “greater”
 
Servant19 said:
Hi Joe, I am totally in agreement with you. All religions promise the coming of something greater, yet when that “greater” arrives, they all turn their back and shun Him.

Believe it or not, this thread is intended to introduce this whole concept, and for us all to reflect more deeply on this concept, that of grounds for rejection of those who claim to be the embodiment of the “greater”
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👍 At the end of the day where do you hang your hat, in terms of religion/beliefs? If you don’t mind me asking…🙂
 
Servant19 said:
Hi Joe, I am totally in agreement with you. All religions promise the coming of something greater, yet when that “greater” arrives, they all turn their back and shun Him.

Believe it or not, this thread is intended to introduce this whole concept, and for us all to reflect more deeply on this concept, that of grounds for rejection of those who claim to be the embodiment of the “greater”
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You said: “All religions promise the coming of something greater…”

I know that is the case for Jews, but I did not know that was the case with other major world religions e.g. Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam etc…Could you maybe give an example?
 
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