What did Jesus bring to the world that was not already brought by Moses?

[Servant19]

Humbly, I refer you to post #750 where it was said:

I will tell you, dear friend, how humanity falls into sin. Free will is the instrument by which God separates the souls that are ALIVE from those that are DEAD…

The truth is, humanity falls every single time a new Manifestation of God says the words “I am”

At that very moment, every single person on the planet has the capacity to fall. They can accept or reject Him. If they accept Him, they are amongst the resurrected. If they reject Him…Gods mercy be upon them…

 

[GaryTaylor]

Hi

Manifestation of God is undefined, we know not what that is, from your understanding that means, Mose’s, Budda, Mohammed etc, They never claimed to be any of this, they were men, so why aren’t we all manifestations according to your understanding.

Who of these stated they were God and said I AM as in relation to claiming to be God?

 

[Johnny777]

My goodness Johnny, wonderful post

Are you basically saying that the moment Jesus came on this earth, that all the people on the earth were effectively dead, and Jesus resurrected them?

No only the departed Old Covenant saints who were waiting in paradise (Abraham’s bosom) for the messiah to fulfill Ezekiel 37:11-14, by resurrecting them as the first fruits of God’s great harvest.

 

[Johnny777]

This is why any manifestation of Christ within our earthly realm is an impostor pretending to be Christ.

There are reasons why Christ will not return until all Adam One flesh has died.

If messiah were to manifest physically in our time based realm, then he would take away the blood atonement on the cross at Calvary and at the same time bypass the Comforter.

You see the real Christ left us the comforter who never leaves us until we depart to be resurrected and then united with the risen lord.

Also the blood atonement on the cross at Calvary will continue until the last remaining Adam One creation has all died.

So long as there are Adam Ones living the blood atonement is the daily sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins.

If a messiah turns up on earth, then the blood atonement is taken away by means of deception.

We remember what Christ told his disciples, that it is better that he goes away so that he can send the comforter. So we have the Spirit of truth and thereby as Jesus said are in a better position. If a messiah turns up on earth, that would be contrary to Christ’s instruction.

Jesus does come at the end when he states where the carcasses are there the eagles will gather, by implying that Adam Ones are no longer inhabiting earth, because they are all dead.

That is why earthly manifestation of Christ are all impostors. Jesus said so when they say that he is in the desert go not and if he is in the secret chambers, go not there. Jesus is clearly saying that any manifestation on earth is not him.

The basic rule is that nothing unholy can come into the presence of The Lord until it is made Holy by his Spirit.

If you have mortals running around a risen Christ this is not a Holy thing, especially if they are still in their sins and continuing with fleshly practice.

 

[Servant19]

Hi

Manifestation of God is undefined, we know not what that is, from your understanding that means, Mose’s, Budda, Mohammed etc, They never claimed to be any of this, they were men, so why aren’t we all manifestations according to your understanding.

Who of these stated they were God and said I AM as in relation to claiming to be God?

Hi Gary, my apologies. By “Manifestation of God” I refer to Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

I think if we were to really study reliable historical documentation of their lives, we would recognise that these Individuals were not the “average run of the day” person

They did not have to state that they were God in order to announce “I am”. God only reveals His guidance in a manner that is in alignment with the capacity of humanity to understand at the time…

 

[GaryTaylor]

Hi Gary, my apologies. By “Manifestation of God” I refer to Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Krishna, Zoroaster, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

I think if we were to really study reliable historical documentation of their lives, we would recognise that these Individuals were not the “average run of the day” person

They did not have to state that they were God in order to announce “I am”. God only reveals His guidance in a manner that is in alignment with the capacity of humanity to understand at the time…

I’m losing you already, if they did not have to state that they were God, am I to understand they were God by…

“I think if we were to really study reliable historical documentation of their lives, we would recognise that these Individuals were not the “average run of the day” person ”

And this is manifestation? I just want to be sure I’m following?

 

[Servant19]

I’m losing you already, if they did not have to state that they were God, am I to understand they were God by…

“I think if we were to really study reliable historical documentation of their lives, we would recognise that these Individuals were not the “average run of the day” person ”

And this is manifestation? I just want to be sure I’m following?

Well did Moses ever claim to be God, Gary?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Well did Moses ever claim to be God, Gary?

No, none but Jesus did. Who do you say I AM. Then He showed us His holy family with Moses’s etc.

So the manifestations part, I’m not clear how your broadly defining this. Mohammed never stated he was Allah.

I can’t quantify this in my mind, I’m not hearing music yet.

 

[Servant19]

No, none but Jesus did. Who do you say I AM. Then He showed us His holy family with Moses’s etc.

So the manifestations part, I’m not clear how your broadly defining this. Mohammed never stated he was Allah.

I can’t quantify this in my mind, I’m not hearing music yet.

Yet both Moses and Muhammad both gave their people a promise of a life after death in communion with God.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Yet both Moses and Muhammad both gave their people a promise of a life after death in communion with God.

Right so they were not God. And Jesus Christ bought that communion with God according to Christianity.

 

[Servant19]

Right so they were not God. And Jesus Christ bought that communion with God according to Christianity.

But Moses gave provision for that communion with God before Christ appeared, and without the need for Christ

 

[GaryTaylor]

But Moses gave provision for that communion with God before Christ appeared, and without the need for Christ

Well of course Christians would argue this point. From a non bias view “without the need” it doesn’t resolve the sweeping difference of manifestation. Nor does it in relation to “God” as we speaking from your perspective fit into this. Bab he claimed to be God? Or someone there did, I’m sure I read that part?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Hi,

I’m with you here…

"I think if we were to really study reliable historical documentation of their lives, we would recognise that these Individuals were not the “average run of the day” person "

How does Jesus Christ and His resume do in comparison?

 

[Servant19]

Well of course Christians would argue this point. From a non bias view “without the need” it doesn’t resolve the sweeping difference of manifestation. Nor does it in relation to “God” as we speaking from your perspective fit into this. Bab he claimed to be God? Or someone there did, I’m sure I read that part?

Hi Gary, yes Baha’u’llah claimed to be the Father.

I will be able to continue our friendly dialogue tomorrow if I may. It’s quite late here in Australia and I have a 6am start tomorrow

God bless you

 

[GaryTaylor]

Hi Gary, yes Baha’u’llah claimed to be the Father.

I will be able to continue our friendly dialogue tomorrow if I may. It’s quite late here in Australia and I have a 6am start tomorrow

God bless you

But yesterday you said the Father wasn’t God but Baha’u’llah was indeed God and indeed came in person?

God Bless us ALL

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

we have a lot of things to consider…

Historical verification of specific deeds is one
Justification for a deed is another…

We cannot base this discussion on the deeds of the Godhead…its on the teachings and His Reality

The Torah isn’t enough for you? Moses sinned when he disobeyed God with the miracle of making water (he did it in a way which God did not command). God then subsequently punishes him by saying he would not enter Israel.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I will tell you, dear friend, how humanity falls into sin. Free will is the instrument by which God separates the souls that are ALIVE from those that are DEAD…

The truth is, humanity falls every single time a new Manifestation of God says the words “I am”

At that very moment, every single person on the planet has the capacity to fall. They can accept or reject Him. If they accept Him, they are amongst the resurrected. If they reject Him…Gods mercy be upon them…

Your doctrine of ressurection precludes those who are wicked from being ressurected? Daniel tells you of your error when he says the righteous and the unrighteous will be ressurected. Note that he speaks about a future event, it hasn’t happened yet and it is a collective event for everyone.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

But Moses gave provision for that communion with God before Christ appeared, and without the need for Christ

No he didn’t. When he said to worship God the creator he was talking about the lord Christ.

 

[GaryTaylor]

"I think if we were to really study reliable historical documentation of their lives, we would recognise that these Individuals were not the “average run of the day” person "

Good idea, I think we should get right on it tomorrow.

But, I see no comparison to Jesus Christ. I don’t know much about Baha’u’llah I’ll trust you for the reliable historical documentation.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

If the Baha’i faith does not have a doctrine of salvation, it is also true that Judaism does not. Judaism does not believe we must be saved from sin in the same sense that Christianity does. It does not believe that humans are fallen creatures, but neither are they perfect since only G-d is perfect. Humans are made in the image and likeness of G-d; they are not gods themselves. And that is quite enough.

You believe in ressurection as jew right?