What did Jesus bring to the world that was not already brought by Moses?

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PRmerger said:
Why can’t an account be literal, symbolic and metaphorical? :confused:
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Ok, we could talk about this all day, but the point is that Catholicism considers the Garden of Eden as a literal place where Adam ate an apple yes?
 
Servant19 said:
Ok, we could talk about this all day, but the point is that Catholicism considers the Garden of Eden as a literal place where Adam ate an apple yes?
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Nope. There is no apple. You can search all of Genesis and no apple is ever mentioned.

That is an invention of men.
 
nmgauss said:
But when the wrong fruit was eaten, they became sinners.
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Nope.

It is not because they ate the wrong food that they became sinners. It is when they attempted to usurp what belongs to God alone–that of deciding what is good and evil.
 
PRmerger said:
Nope.

It is not because they ate the wrong food that they became sinners. It is when they attempted to usurp what belongs to God alone–that of deciding what is good and evil.
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Have a good long think about what that means PR…

Move outside the Catholic box and think sister…think 🙂
 
Servant19 said:
Ok, I’m fine with that. 🙂

So the rest of the narrative is literally true?
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Just curious–why did you think there was an apple in the story of the Garden of Eden?

Have you not actually read Genesis, but only read things people have said about it?
 
PRmerger said:
Just curious–why did you think there was an apple in the story of the Garden of Eden?

Have you not actually read Genesis, but only read things people have said about it?
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Good point 🙂

Its actually been a long time since I read Genesis. I have read it cover to cover, but I guess man made stuff creeps into our psyche after a while…

I think its time to re-read it 👍
 
nmgauss said:
If living beings did not need food, air, and water to continue to live, then the world might be perfect. As it is, the world provides only limited supplies of food, air, and water to living beings, so it is imperfect. And if we look at where animal food comes from, it is derived from other living beings. In other words, eating and being eaten are part of the equation. Can this be perfection?

The world has good things and bad things. Gentle rain is mostly good, but violent storms can be destructive. Warmth is good, but severe cold is not. Volcanoes can be destructive. All these elements have no effect on spirits, but living beings are affected. Is this perfection or is it even approaching perfection?

If we considered the world as a location of spiritual beings who do not need food, air , and water, then the world might be considered perfect. And if we look at where animal food comes from, it is derived from other living beings.
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Hi Gauss 🙂

Do you not accustom your children to hardships? Get them to struggle with washing, cooking, cleaning etc?

The collective body of mankind going through physical torment and tests is not an indicator of “imperfection”?

Sometimes hardship is a necessity for the acquisition of ever higher standards of perfection…
 
Servant19 said:
Good point 🙂

Its actually been a long time since I read Genesis. I have read it cover to cover, but I guess man made stuff creeps into our psyche after a while…

I think its time to re-read it 👍
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I really wish you wouldn’t read it. Unless you are going to read it through the lens of the faith which gave you this bible.
 
Servant19 said:
Hi Gauss 🙂

Do you not accustom your children to hardships? Get them to struggle with washing, cooking, cleaning etc?

The collective body of mankind going through physical torment and tests is not an indicator of “imperfection”?

Sometimes hardship is a necessity for the acquisition of ever higher standards of perfection…
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So how do we recognize complete perfection when we see it?
 
PRmerger said:
I really wish you wouldn’t read it. Unless you are going to read it through the lens of the faith which gave you this bible.
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Is the compiler of the book of poetry the sole authority on the meaning of each poem?

…the poetry existed before the compiler
 
nmgauss said:
So how do we recognize complete perfection when we see it?
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As finite beings we cannot fathom true perfection, because there is no limit to perfection. It is a limitless concept.

All we can know is the perfection on a relative basis according to what God has endowed us with, but with the caveat that there is always “more”…

…and God is the All-Wise 🙂
 
PRmerger said:
It is only because of this compiler that you know this comes from God.
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Which means we have to have A LOT OF FAITH in the compiler…

…at the same time, it does not give the compiler any authority to interpret, unless specifically and explicitly written by Jesus Himself, saying “the compiler is the sole interpreter”

This is why the “SEAL” of Baha’u’llah’s Tablets is so critical. There is NO QUESTION to the authenticity of Baha’u’llahs Tablets and Writings. Its the first time in history we can rely on KNOWLEDGE rather than A LOT OF FAITH…
 
Servant19 said:
Which means we have to have A LOT OF FAITH in the compiler…
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Egg-zactly.
…at teh same time, it does not give the compiler any authority to interpret, unless specifically andf explicitly written by Jesus Himself.
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How would you know whether something was explicitly written by Jesus?

Unless…

You trust in the authority of this compiler, right?

Incidentally, are there any words of Jesus that your prophets have attributes to Jesus that are not from the bible? Just curious about that.
 
PRmerger said:
Egg-zactly.

How would you know whether something was explicitly written by Jesus?

Unless…

You trust in the authority of this compiler, right?
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…when it comes to the Word of God, I would prefer to be certain that the Person I am worshipping has definitely said what it is that is forming my identity and being as a human…

I have faith in the compilers of the Bible. There are definite authenticity questions.

There are no authenticity questions in regards to the Verses that formulate my purpose and existence as a Baha’i…
PRmerger said:
Incidentally, are there any words of Jesus that your prophets have attributes to Jesus that are not from the bible? Just curious about that.
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I think there are some here and there, I can’t recall, but I can look it up if you’re interested 🙂
 
Servant19 said:
…when it comes to the Word of God, I would prefer to be certain that the Person I am worshipping has definitely said what it is that is forming my identity and being as a human…
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Egg-zactly.

And the ONLY way you know what Jesus said is because the Catholic Church told you so.
I have faith in the compilers of the bible.
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Right. You are submitting to the authority of the Catholic Church each time you quote from the New Testament as the word of God.
I think there are some here and there, I can’t recall, but I can look it up if you’re interested 🙂
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Yes. I’d like that very much.
 
PRmerger said:
Incidentally, are there any words of Jesus that your prophets have attributes to Jesus that are not from the bible? Just curious about that.
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There is a Story that Abdul’Baha told about Christ which is Good

One must see in every human being only that which is worthy of praise. When this is done, one can be a friend to the whole human race. If, however, we look at people from the standpoint of their faults, then being a friend to them is a formidable task.
It happened one day in the time of Christ—may the life of the world be a sacrifice unto Him—that He passed by the dead body of a dog, a carcass reeking, hideous, the limbs rotting away. One of those present said: ‘How foul its stench!’ And another said: ‘How sickening! How loathsome!’ To be brief, each one of them had something to add to the list.
But then Christ Himself spoke, and He told them: ‘Look at that dog’s teeth! How gleaming white!’
The Messiah’s sin-covering gaze did not for a moment dwell upon the repulsiveness of that carrion. The one element of that dead dog’s carcass which was not abomination was the teeth: and Jesus looked upon their brightness.
Thus is it incumbent upon us, when we direct our gaze toward other people, to see where they excel, not where they fail.
Praise be to God, thy goal is to promote the well-being of humankind and to help the souls to overcome their faults. This good intention will produce laudable results.

Link - reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAB/sab-145.html

Regards Tony
 
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