What do witches/sorcerers deserve now?

  • Thread starter Thread starter abcdefg
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I hope to God you’re joking…

Has your Church stopped requiring that it flourish and all it considers heretics are expelled, etc.?

The example that comes to mind in the experience of my own Church appears to be based on this doctrine. Last century your church decided that the Serbian Orthodox were to be one third expelled, one third killed and one third converted. Is this a general pattern according to this doctrine?
 
40.png
BlessedBe13:
Actually, that’s sounding more like the way the Christian God is portrayed: "If people won’t belief in me this way, fine! They can all go to hell (literally). I was simply explaining why it is force and also why it makes the description of the Christian god quite contradictory.

This is simply what happens if one rejects the only Person Who can make one happy. Reject happiness - and the alternative is unhappiness. We can’t simultaneously reject God and choose God. Hell is merely what rejecting God is; what rejecting God means in practice.​

It’s not capricious, or arbitrary or wilful of God. If we reject God, God will honour that choice. We will not be forced to want the God we don’t want. That would be unspeakably cruel, and God is not cruel. God is Love, and so He gives us our own way, on our terms, for ever, if we really insist. He says to the damned, “Thy will be done”. That is what Hell is - the enjoyment of our own way for ever, without God to bother us by having mercy on us.

Hell is in no way unfair. It is the alternative to loving God and being loved by God. If there is any unfairness, God is the one with a right to complain. We can’t insist both that we should have what we want, and then object when we don’t like it. We cannot choose selfishness, and reject selfishness at the same time. We must take the consequences of our choices. That is part of being grown up. ##
Extortion: : the act or practice of extorting especially money or other property Who am I extorting money or property from?

Well I have made the right choice for my religious beliefs, it is not harmful to me, therefore I have no reason to repent (at least in that area of my life).
 
40.png
Myhrr:
I hope to God you’re joking…

Has your Church stopped requiring that it flourish and all it considers heretics are expelled, etc.?

The example that comes to mind in the experience of my own Church appears to be based on this doctrine. Last century your church decided that the Serbian Orthodox were to be one third expelled, one third killed and one third converted. Is this a general pattern according to this doctrine?

If we quoted Pope after Pope to show that the Church has given up such ways, would you believe us ?​

Or would you try instead to show that what has been said to that effect, is meaningless ?

Would you perhaps proceed to quote from “Unam Sanctam”, to show that we are being duped by the Popes, because really, of course, no Pope can honestly be against capital punishment for heretics ?

Are you asking for information sincerely, or preparing the beginnings of a case against us ?

Do you want to believe the worst of the CC ? Are you hoping that we will live down to the worst stereotypes of RCs known among Orthodox Christians? Or do you come in peace ? Only you can answer these questions.

I don’t think I am going to dispute with you, because it is too much of a temptation: I hate atrocity-swapping, and I dislike being tempted to repay accusation with accusation. I don’t believe that is the way of Christ. I can think of plenty of things which could be dug up against Orthodox Christians, and also of the answers to such objections. Just as there are accusations which can be made against any religion, Catholicism included.

IMO it is better to be accused than to accuse, but best of all neither to accuse or be accused, and to put away all bitterness for ever, as Christians ought to, and as Christ requires, and as He did.

Mat 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.

Mat 7:2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.

Mat 7:3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

Mat 7:4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?

Mat 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."

[My emphasis] Something for all of us to lay to heart

BTW - that “you” in verse 2 is plural - not singular, like the others. ##
 
Gottle of Geer said:
## If we quoted Pope after Pope to show that the Church has given up such ways, would you believe us ?

Oh, please do! This is exactly what I’ve been asking for.
Or would you try instead to show that what has been said to that effect, is meaningless ?
Let’s not jump to what I might or might not say, first get me proof that your Church has changed its ways.
Would you perhaps proceed to quote from “Unam Sanctam”, to show that we are being duped by the Popes, because really, of course, no Pope can honestly be against capital punishment for heretics ?
Where’s the proof that your Church rejects Unam Sanctam and the rest?
Are you asking for information sincerely, or preparing the beginnings of a case against us ?
A few decades ago your Church, based on the principles of Unam Sanctam and as shown in Summis Desiderantes, forcibly expelled members of my Church from their own land and of those left focibly converted those it didn’t slaughter; the numbers are horrific, the methods depraved. I’m asking sincerely.
Do you want to believe the worst of the CC ? Are you hoping that we will live down to the worst stereotypes of RCs known among Orthodox Christians? Or do you come in peace ? Only you can answer these questions.
I want proof that your Churches current “dialogue of love” is sincere.

I’ve yet to see it in the reporting of the events in Jerusalem for example.

“Desiring with supreme ardor, as pastoral solicitude **requires, that the catholic faith in our days everywhere grow and flourish as much as possible, and that all heretical depravity be put far from the territories of the faithful, we freely declare and anew decree this by which our pious desire may be fulfilled, and, all errors being rooted out by our toil as with the hoe of a wise laborer, **zeal and devotion to this faith may take deeper hold on the hearts of the faithful themselves.”

We know what you mean by rooting out errors with the hoe of wise labour, a euphemism for creating hell for us. Please, take this seriously.
I don’t think I am going to dispute with you, because it is too much of a temptation: I hate atrocity-swapping, and I dislike being tempted to repay accusation with accusation. I don’t believe that is the way of Christ. I can think of plenty of things which could be dug up against Orthodox Christians, and also of the answers to such objections. Just as there are accusations which can be made against any religion, Catholicism included.
We don’t have infallible doctrines of infallible Popes sanctioning mass slaughter of those who refuse to be in it. The onus is on you to prove that you’re no longer such a Church.
IMO it is better to be accused than to accuse, but best of all neither to accuse or be accused, and to put away all bitterness for ever, as Christians ought to, and as Christ requires, and as He did.
Oh right, so now I’m in the wrong for asking why your infallible doctrines include killing me if I refuse to submit to your infalllible Pope’s supreme unhindered power?

Sorry for asking.
Mat 7:1 "Judge not, that you be not judged.

Mat 7:2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get.

Mat 7:3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

Mat 7:4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?

Mat 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye."

[My emphasis] Something for all of us to lay to heart

BTW - that “you” in verse 2 is plural - not singular, like the others. ##
 
i figure we shoud do to them what we do to them now, consider them a kinda wierd group and avoid them when they are being freaky.
 
We should attack the moral relativism which pervades our culture and allows such practices to continue under the guise of harmless. We should strengthen ourselves in our own faith, and focus on Christ. I think, above all, they deserve the Love that only Christ can give them, and, if they reject that, they deserve Hell just like the rest of us.

Other than that, they deserve a lollipop.
 
What they deserve it isn’t as important as what they need, which is conversion.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
I vote “Other”

I don’t think it is sometimes very difficult to determine who is a witch and who isn’t. For this reason we should be fair. We should tie a large rock to the accused person’s ankle and then drop them into a large and deep body of water. If the person does not rise, then that person is not a witch. If the person does rise, that means she was able to magically untie herself from the rock, and that she is a witch who desserves to be crushed under layers of rocks. 👍
 
40.png
JamesS:
There is a resident athiest around here who … seems to have no desire to convert, and he ends up in mind numbing debates about idle subjects such as “can one dissprove a negative?”… surely it is a distraction for a Christian to engage in this debate with him.
I’ve just come to a similar conclusion myself, although not necessarily with regards to the same individual. I’ve realized that there have been times when I’ve put time into reading and responding to threads that have had little if any potential for benefit to myself or the other posters on the thread. I’ve had to ask myself if I’m not distracting myself from that which I am meant to do.

I’m afraid this thread may be an example of this.

CARose
 
Ingenius as well as foolproof. Maybe we should make the body of water shark infested as well!
40.png
Madaglan:
I vote “Other”

I don’t think it is sometimes very difficult to determine who is a witch and who isn’t. For this reason we should be fair. We should tie a large rock to the accused person’s ankle and then drop them into a large and deep body of water. If the person does not rise, then that person is not a witch. If the person does rise, that means she was able to magically untie herself from the rock, and that she is a witch who desserves to be crushed under layers of rocks. 👍
 
don’t know who’s the first that said this
if he/she rises, it means his/her body is associated with black arts and is incompatible with baptismal water so that’s a witch
 
Tantum ergo said:
13, can you tell us a bit about your practices which showcase the good that they do? Why are they good? Are they individual goods, or collective? Are they relative, or absolute?

Are you asking my religious practices or practicing witchcraft? I suppose that since I am a solitary practitioner, the “good” is individual, but for those who work in groups the good can be individual or collective. Although I practice alone, it is possible (although I have not yet done it as I have just recently begun practicing) for me to work for good for another individual/individuals/general good, etc. They are good because I am working for positive, beneficial results, not negative or harmful. By relative and absolute, I assume you are asking whether only I and maybe a few others will think they are good or if everyone will think it is good?
Can you tell us how you got interested in witchcraft and why you believe your beliefs are good?
To be honest, my interest in witchcraft began when I was younger and reading fictional books about witchcraft. That sparked my interest to read about real witchcraft was, since I knew it wasn’t like what I read in
What sources did you use?
I have read several books and some websites and have spoken to people that practice witchcraft. Of course, I take everything I read with a grain of salt because some people (ahem Silver Ravenwolf) seem to be trying to commercialize it to make more money and have many contradictions in there own books… Others seem to have good information, but one has to keep in mind that everyone is going to have their own perspective on a certain topic. The same goes with talking to people.
cont…
 
Can you p(name removed by moderator)oint something very specific that your practice says is good and that Christian practice says is bad (I am talking about dogma in our case and the most basic guiding principals in yours–something that all witches would agree on).
I’m assuming you refering to Wicca, maybe, here? Because Wicca is a religion, and witchcraft is a practice. Some Wiccans do practice witchcraft, but not all, and not all witches are Wiccan. I’m not sure exactly what you are asking, but I’m guessing it may be something such as divination? Divination is considered OK by Wiccans because it is believed that everyone/thing is connected in the “universal subconsious” and divination is simply tapping into that subconsious. It is also understood that divination “predicting the future” is not a definite thing - it only shows the possible future if one continues on the path that they are on. However, Christians believe that divination is wrong because it shows lack of trust in God, it comes from Satan, etc.
you believe that there is no such thing as salvation (I know there are many variants on this, anything from people as pure energy, people as cosmic accidents, etc.)–then what we have is not a difference of opinion so much as a difference of externals.
That paragraph did make a pretty good point. I only wanted to point out that while beliefs in the afterlife do vary, in general, most Wiccans believe in either reincarnation, an afterlife where everyone meets together to spend eternity, or a combination of the two.
So it isn’t a question of one religion being “easier” than another.
That is very true, keeping in mind, Wicca is the religion. 🙂 Many people seem to think that Wicca is just an excuse for a “free-for-all”, but it is not. There are morals and standards to live by, etc.
Now, did you have any sort of Christian “exposure” before you became a witch, and how did you “find out” about witches?
I was born and raised in a strict Catholic family. Although my mother let me read fictional books about witches, it got to a point where she stopped letting me get them because she thought they were “evil”. As I said above, these books sparked my interest to find out about what witchcraft really was, and since the books on witchcraft are near the books on Wicca in stores, I started reading about Wicca as well.
What testimony made you say, “that feels right”. . .and, are there any parts you had to struggle with?
I’m still not positive whether you are asking about witchcraft or Wicca, but I’ll stick with Witchcraft since that is the main topic here. While I already had the idea that “spells” weren’t like in movies etc. POOF there’s a flying pencil, etc. I didn’t really understand how spellwork was supposed to “work”. However, in many of the books I have read and people I have spoken to, there are 2 types of “spells”. The first is the equivelant of Christian prayer. As I had already grown up praying, this made sense to me. The second uses the natural energies within and without us, to work towards a certain goal. Since it has been proven that everything is made up of energy, this made sense to me and helped me better understand what spells are supposed to be, and that it’s not just some “instant gratification” thing.
What if the feelings change?
Probably the first thing I would do would be to evaluate why these feelings are changing. Am I just going through a bad time in my life where I think of everything negatively? Am I “disillusioned” by the fact that a spell or prayer wasn’t answered? Or is it a core part of my faith that is changing? And why? If I’m just going through a rough time, it is no reason to up and change faiths. However if it is a core part of my faith, I need to figure out why it is changing, can it be remidied, or is it so drastic that there would be no point in “being Wiccan” if I no longer believe in it?
 
cont…
How can you know what to do if you have problems?
Sorry, I’m not sure exactly what you mean. Problems in my life? Problems with my faith? Etc.
Whose testimony do you have that you trust so much?
Several books I’ve read and people I’ve spoken to just make a lot of sense to me and reflected the beliefs I was developing. However, I can’t just base my religious choices on other peoples testimony alone - that would be ridiculous. “Oh here, here’s my life. Make my decisions. Thanks!” 😛 So, I also prayed, and thought, and prayed. And through this, it helped me come to understand what I believe in and why.
These are the beginning questions I would ask you to consider to start to understand your faith, just as they are the questions I would expect you to ask me, about MY faith.
I agree completely. I think a lot of my discussions on these boards (except when they turned more into arguments) really have helped me to evaluate why I believe in what I do, and I think it has helped strengthen my beliefs because it’s made me really think about them. Sorry if some of my answers were sort of vague. I was trying to get to everything without writing a book on each subject. 🙂 I’ll be happy to answer any other questions, and perhaps that will lead me to asking you some of the same.
 
40.png
StephiePea:
BlessedBe13, I thought you were a christian. I had no idea you were an advocate for witch craft. You are gravely mistaken about what you think you have gotten yourself into…I pray the holy spirit changes your mind…
I was Catholic, but have been studying/practicing Wicca and witchcraft for about the past year.
 
Tom of Assisi:
I don’t know about what they deserve…but they need to grow-up and realize that trees and dirt are not “gods” and “goddesses.”
No-one ever said the trees and dirt were gods and goddess. They may have the divine in them as God and Goddess are everywhere, just as the Christian God is supposed to be within and without everything. However, I worship God and Goddess, not the trees and dirt. Perhaps you should grow up and actually learn something so that perhaps you don’t sound completely ignorant when you write something?
Wicca is too silly for most ten year olds to believe it–I’d be happier if they had an adult idea…
I’d ask you what is so silly about it, but I forgot, you don’t yet have the “adult idea” of knowing what you are talking about.
 
40.png
Monarchy:
Death of course!!!

Ex. 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.Lv. 20:27 A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.
Come and get me then. :rolleyes:

And people tell me I need to grow up.
 
Blessedbe, I believe you do believe there is a heaven ,correct? If so ,How do you know you are entering in? :confused:
 
40.png
Madaglan:
I vote “Other”

I don’t think it is sometimes very difficult to determine who is a witch and who isn’t. For this reason we should be fair. We should tie a large rock to the accused person’s ankle and then drop them into a large and deep body of water. If the person does not rise, then that person is not a witch. If the person does rise, that means she was able to magically untie herself from the rock, and that she is a witch who desserves to be crushed under layers of rocks. 👍
:rolleyes: That’s a plan.

Sir Bedevere: There are ways of telling whether she is a witch.
Peasant 1: Are there? Oh well, tell us.
Sir Bedevere: Tell me. What do you do with witches?
Peasant 1: Burn them.
Sir Bedevere: And what do you burn, apart from witches?
Peasant 1: More witches.
Peasant 2: Wood.
Sir Bedevere: Good. Now, why do witches burn?
Peasant 3: …because they’re made of… wood?
Sir Bedevere: Good. So how do you tell whether she is made of wood?
Peasant 1: Build a bridge out of her.
Sir Bedevere: But can you not also build bridges out of stone?
Peasant 1: Oh yeah.
Sir Bedevere: Does wood sink in water?
Peasant 1: No, no, it floats!.. It floats! Throw her into the pond!
Sir Bedevere: No, no. What else floats in water?
Peasant 1: Bread.
Peasant 2: Apples.
Peasant 3: Very small rocks.
Peasant 1: Cider.
Peasant 2: Gravy.
Peasant 3: Cherries.
Peasant 1: Mud.
Peasant 2: Churches.
Peasant 3: Lead! Lead!
King Arthur: A Duck.
Sir Bedevere: …Exactly. So, logically…
Peasant 1: If she weighed the same as a duck… she’s made of wood.
Sir Bedevere: And therefore…
Peasant 2: …A witch!
 
40.png
SPOKENWORD:
Blessedbe, I believe you do believe there is a heaven ,correct? If so ,How do you know you are entering in? :confused:
I believe that there is an afterlife where everyone is joined together. Because I believe in all-loving creators, I don’t believe that anyone is excluded.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top