What is antisemitism?

[Beryllos]

So this is what happens. There are parties who use the holocaust in a way that says “blame, blame, blame”, which sets up a climate of blame. The parties are very well intended, but they are not understanding how people react. […]

If I set a tone of reconciliation, I will create a climate of reconciliation. If I set a tone of blame, I will create a climate of blame. If we are truly trying to create the Kingdom, we need to stop emphasizing the “evil Nazis” and start talking about understanding and forgiveness.

I have been thinking about another aspect of this, which is finding a pathway to redemption – and not closing it off!

Let’s say someone is the meanest, rottenest, most antisemitic person ever. How can we make him a better person? Probably not by shaming him, or getting him fired, or locking him up.

It might work better to engage him as a human being, talk to him, build up his awareness of the dignity and worth of every person, and help him to find healing and inner peace.

We must also care for his human dignity and worth. Hate the sin, love the sinner. While it is necessary to tell him that what he has done is wrong, we should avoid labeling him as evil (hater, nazi, antisemite), and allow him to save face.

 

[OneSheep]

But you’re distorting what Jesus taught and how Jesus acted. He forgave, but he also confronted people when they were wrong and called them evil when they actually were evil.

“You brood of vipers! How can you speak good, when you are evil ? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.” Matthew 12:34

He did make reference to “wicked men” which I think translates to “evil-doer”. It is also true, though, that Jesus sort of accepts our natural impulse to condemn even though He calls us to forgive, and also transcend the impulse. To me, it’s a nod to our beautiful God-given nature. I have no problem seeing that Jesus was just as prone to human impulse to judge as any other human being. This very well could be why He could say “for they know not what they do” from the cross. Whenever we condemn people, whenever we have a bigoted mindset, we do not have a clue what we are doing.

We must remember, though, that Jesus “grew in wisdom” and at the end he forgave, not condemned, the people doing great evil to Him.

Recognizing that someone has rejected the good by choice is not dehumanizing. It is an affirmation of their humaness and their agency.

I agree with this, but when our “punishment mode” is triggered (we view something unconscionable) there is also an automatic dehumanizing triggered in our minds. We attach a negative affect to the value of a person. I see person A hurt someone else, and suddenly the person A is a “jerk” in my mind, not a “decent person” like everyone else. Sure, with some reflection, understanding, and forgiveness, I can come to see person A as no different than me, but in the mean time Person A is something negative.

To see people as a negative, in this view, is dehumanizing. OTOH, if a person sees all people as having a negative affect (no dignity), then perhaps calling someone evil, in their eyes, is simply stating a fact.

it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t call out evil when we see it just because we’re afraid others might use our denunciation of evil as an excuse to dehumanize people. Should we remain silent about Hitler’s crimes for fear that people might lash out at German people?

Of course not. However, what is to be created is a climate of forgiveness rather than blame. If with peaceful, forgiving hearts we stop persecution, then we also inspire the persecutors to forgive. We reap what we sow.

Some things need to be condemned…

I agree completely with that section of your post.

 

[gracepoole]

Our theology and anthropology need to be more inclusive and less judgmental. We all need to stop blaming (judging) and start understanding and forgiving.

Do you believe this is also how the Rohingya (who are experiencing genocide right now) should respond to their situation?

 

[Beryllos]

What’s needed is an understanding that all of us can become Nazis – all of us can become perpetrators.

Somehow I doubt that contemplating the depths of human evil will lead us to good.

 

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

What’s needed is an understanding that all of us can become Nazis – all of us can become perpetrators.

Somehow I doubt that contemplating the depths of human evil will lead us to good.

I’m assuming you’re not a Holocaust educator. If that assumption is correct, it’s interesting that you’ve come to the above conclusion without knowledge of what takes place through Holocaust education or why it contains the content it does.

 

[Beryllos]

Okay, educate us on hope for the future. I think that’s what OneSheep and I have been talking about.

 

[gracepoole]

Okay, educate us on hope for the future. I think that’s what OneSheep and I have been talking about.

That’s what Holocaust education is doing. Before you can look to the future with hope, you have to know why a genocide took place. You have to understand how to thwart its symptoms going forward.

 

[OneSheep]

Jesus isn’t actually saying that we are never to judge–ever.

Really? Where did He say that it’s okay to judge people? Let’s put it this way, though. Jesus spent a lot of time asking us to forgive, much less telling us not to judge. Why? Because judging is triggered, we have no control over it. What we do have control over is the decision to understand and forgive.

What kind of world would we live in if Christians were never capable of judging others without sinning? We would literally be unable to hold any position of authority.

We don’t choose to judge, Itwin, it is a natural reaction of the conscience. So there never will be a world without judging, but we can create a world where we are called to forgive when we judge.

I have no idea how this effects position of authority. We are to punish wrongdoing, there should be consequences.

‘Purge the evil person from among you’” 1 Corinthians 12:13.

Although something could be lost in translation, I doubt it in this case. Sts. Paul and Peter were just as capable of judging others as the rest of us. That doesn’t mean that we are not called to forgive those we judge. And when we truly forgive at the deepest level, we see no person as “evil”. We see their beauty and goodness, the goodness of God in everyone.

Let me get this straight. Just because I discern that Hitler is evil because of his actions, I am somehow holding his actions against him and am therefore guilty of unforgiveness? Is that your argument?

No, because guilt implies blame. To clarify, let me ask you this: Are you evil?

 

[OneSheep]

I know Eva Kor.

Wow, that’s awesome! I want to continue our conversation, but I need to get to work, and I will return to this later.

I leave you with this, for the moment:

1. If I gain a great deal of wealth, much more than those around me, how are those around me going to naturally feel toward me, especially when those around me are struggling for resources?
2. While I am at it, I am of a different race, ethnicity, or religion than those others around me. How will those people naturally feel, then, about my own race or ethnicity (especially if the others tend to support one another)?
3. While I am at it, my own race or ethnicity, which is not the “native” one, is gaining political power and buying out property and businesses from the “natives”. My own race or ethnicity (or whatever) is out-competing the “natives”, and some of them are going bankrupt. I also get some advantage from my affiliations. How are the “natives” naturally going to feel about this, about me?
4. And finally, notice what I have called “natural”. Are you able to stomach accepting this as part of your own nature, or are you more inclined to deny it?

 

[ltwin]

To clarify, let me ask you this: Are you evil?

I am capable of evil. There are times when I have been an evil person. I’ve never committed genocide, so I wouldn’t say I’m as evil as Hitler. But I have the capacity to be.

 

[OneSheep]

I am capable of evil. There are times when I have been an evil person. I’ve never committed genocide, so I wouldn’t say I’m as evil as Hitler. But I have the capacity to be.

Okay, we’ve both done evil. And when you have done evil, you believe you have “been an evil person”, and I have done the same to myself in the past.

When a person sees their self an “evil person” are they seeing that they are just as valuable in God’s eyes as when they are not an “evil person”? Are they seeing themselves as just as valuable as an “evil person” as they are as a “good person” in their own eyes? In society’s eyes?

 

[ltwin]

When a person sees their self an “evil person” are they seeing that they are just as valuable in God’s eyes as when they are not an “evil person”?

God sees us as we are. There is no hiding the inner man from him. Our value in God’s eyes isn’t based on whether we’re evil or not because human nature is inherently flawed because of original sin. All of us would fall short of God’s righteousness were he to judge us on that basis.

Therefore, my value as a human is not based on whether I’m good or not (which in any case is a status that can change). It’s based on my having been created by God in his image.

Are they seeing themselves as just as valuable as an “evil person” as they are as a “good person” in their own eyes ?

If you experience guilt over sins you’ve committed, you may no doubt also experience feelings of worthlessness, but the proper response is to repent and appeal to God’s mercy.

In society’s eyes ?

Society may view an evil person as dangerous, with justification. If I murder people, that is an evil act and dangerous to the welfare of the society as a whole. People would be right to fear and abhor me and seek to lawfully restrain and punish my evil. That is why government’s have power to wield force.

 

[tafan2]

For me in my own life, it has been very painful, yet very freeing and humbling, to recognize when I have been in some part responsible for some bad things that happen to me

If the analogy in anyway is intended to imply the Jews are somehow responsible, in the least bit, for the Holocaust, you should be ashamed of yourself.

If we are truly trying to create the Kingdom, we need to stop emphasizing the “evil Nazis” and start talking about understanding and forgiveness.

I could not disagree more. We most certainly do need to continue to call the Nazis ( and communists, bte) evil. That should be always the emphasis. We should never allow ourselves to forget how evil the Nazis were, not in the least. The Kingdom depends on this.

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

”A Christian cannot be an anti-Semite”
- Pope Francis

We have a duty to protect our Jewish brothers and sisters and also to fight against the hatred of anti-semitism. Anti-semitism is fueled by evil and comes directly from the devil, we must speak against it. Nazism is directly from the devil, we must speak against it.

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

I am capable of evil. There are times when I have been an evil person. I’ve never committed genocide, so I wouldn’t say I’m as evil as Hitler. But I have the capacity to be.

This is not proper logic. Evil cannot be quantified nor can we be evil. We may act in evil ways but we are not evil. Remember, God created humans and all of creation and saw it was good. It is fallen yes and so we may act evil but we are intrinsically good and therefore can partake in the suffering, death, and resurrection of Jesus everyday at mass.

Nobody is evil. We do evil things but only one being is pure evil and this is the devil, and his demons. As evil as the actions of certain people are, they are still human and Jesus still died on the cross for them

 

[gracepoole]

1. If I gain a great deal of wealth, much more than those around me, how are those around me going to naturally feel toward me, especially when those around me are struggling for resources?
2. While I am at it, I am of a different race, ethnicity, or religion than those others around me. How will those people naturally feel, then, about my own race or ethnicity (especially if the others tend to support one another)?
3. While I am at it, my own race or ethnicity, which is not the “native” one, is gaining political power and buying out property and businesses from the “natives”. My own race or ethnicity (or whatever) is out-competing the “natives”, and some of them are going bankrupt. I also get some advantage from my affiliations. How are the “natives” naturally going to feel about this, about me?
4. And finally, notice what I have called “natural”. Are you able to stomach accepting this as part of your own nature, or are you more inclined to deny it?

I… I can’t respond this. Put me down for @tafan2’s response to it.

 

[GospelOfMatthew]

• If I gain a great deal of wealth, much more than those around me, how are those around me going to naturally feel toward me, especially when those around me are struggling for resources?
• While I am at it, I am of a different race, ethnicity, or religion than those others around me. How will those people naturally feel, then, about my own race or ethnicity (especially if the others tend to support one another)?
• While I am at it, my own race or ethnicity, which is not the “native” one, is gaining political power and buying out property and businesses from the “natives”. My own race or ethnicity (or whatever) is out-competing the “natives”, and some of them are going bankrupt. I also get some advantage from my affiliations. How are the “natives” naturally going to feel about this, about me?
• And finally, notice what I have called “natural”. Are you able to stomach accepting this as part of your own nature, or are you more inclined to deny it?

This is anti-Semitic and extremely nativist. I firmly reject this. I do not partake in the “natural” you refer to because I don’t hate people who look different than myself or have more money than me. Also this assumption that Jewish people have all this money and buy governments and media and houses is stereotypical, hateful, and fuels violence. This is anti-Catholic thinking. Jesus condemned the hypocritical Pharisees for this line of questioning

 

[Beryllos]

Got Judgment? I thought he was talking about the Chinese Americans!

Aw, shoot! Now you’re all going to judge and label me antisinitic.

 

[Fauken]

I think you would call this sticking your foot in your mouth.

 

[tafan2]

This thread has been on my mind a lot the last couple of days. The vagueness of many responses seem to be intentionally written to afford people an out if called on the carpet. The explicit use of classic, but supposedly defendable, statements and cliches about Jews. So many posts to which I feel like I should have responded. It is perhaps the most disheartening thread I can recall on this forum.