What is antisemitism?

[ltwin]

Hitler and the German people correctly perceived evil in the way Germany was punished after World War I (Treaty of Versailles).

Whether Germany was mistreated after World War I is immaterial to whether Hitler was evil. It certainly helped him convince many German people to give him the power he sought, but just because he claimed to want to right a wrong does not mean he was simply a misguided person. He made choices that were not good. Evil is simply the absence of good. He gave birth to an evil ideology that still plagues us to this day.

 

[Beryllos]

Your argument is all over the place, and it all seems to be black and white. I’m going to try to come back to the Original Topic tomorrow, God willing.

 

[OneSheep]

The controversy she keeps stepping into is saying anti-Semitic stuff.

She has made two errors, both inadvertent if you read the letter she wrote for the Washington Post that I linked above. What other statements has she made that you personally accuse to be antisemitic?

She has been accused by the JDL as being antisemitic, but the JDL is very quick to make the accusation. Many networks are also quick to make the accusation. Other than the two she apologized for, what else has she said that is part of an antisemitic trope? Many Jewish people support her, they are strongly against policies that persecute and discriminate against Palestinian Muslims and Christians.

There is objective evil in this world, and humans are not immune.

Yes, there is an objective evil. However, we are called by Jesus to forgive when we hold a person’s actions against their dignity as a human. See Mark 11:25.

Calling someone whose actions are objectively evil (like committing genocide) an evil person is not dehumanization.

Can you think of a more dehumanizing comment than to say that someone is evil? Can you see that in order for a person to commit genocide, they must already have the illusion that their victims are disposable? (evil, worthless, etc.) Look at psychopaths. Because they have an empathy disability, they cannot see value in anyone other than themselves.

Antisemitism involves seeing evil in an entire group of people. It is an illusion, it is blindness. It happens for understandable reasons, but it is an untruth.

Jesus also said, “You will know them by their fruits” (Matthew 7:16).

Exactly. We are not to trust people who are prejudiced. If someone convinces others that an entire group of people is evil, the fruits of their words are putrid untruth and more hate. If I say someone is evil, the fruits of my words are judgment and condemnation, not forgiveness.

Jesus said, “Do not judge, or you too will be judged”. Saying that someone is evil is a judgment, right? Even saying someone is antisemitic is a judgment. However, saying that a statement is antisemitic is an observation, or maybe a description. It is making inferences about underlying motives. Ilhan Omar has made clear her underlying motives in her letter in the Washington Post.

It is not my place to forgive Hitler. Forgiveness is something we must receive from God and those we have wronged.

Mark 11:25 New International Version (NIV)

25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”

If you hold nothing against Hitler, then the verse does not apply to you. Yes, forgiveness is received, but if we withhold forgiveness, we will not experience that from God.

 

[OneSheep]

Readers:

Do you hold something against Jewish people? If so, forgive, and then you will know holiness. When we forgive anyone we hold something against, we experience God’s forgiveness in a real way.

 

[fin]

I do not get usury. They say that one should not be usurious. Yet what does thay exactly mean? What amount or percentage constitutes as usurious? Are not modern day banks usurious? And id they are, seems not a lot of people are complaining.

I think that these allegations stem from anger and envy. They are envious of thr success of this particular group of people. Someone mentioned in this thread another group which are a minority in a certain region. I belong to that segment and so I know what it’s like to hear racist and derogatory comments about us. I remind myself that only God’s opinion of me matters, not anyone else’s.

 

[OneSheep]

I know what it’s like to hear racist and derogatory comments about us. I remind myself that only God’s opinion of me matters, not anyone else’s.

That’s a great discipline Fin. Yes, God’s loving opinion matters.

I think you are right, there is a lot of envy involved. And people think “this is my land, and these minority (or immigrants) are invading, taking over, changing it”, etc. And when you put the jealousy, the territoriality, and the differences of culture/race/ethnicity together, you have the recipe for discrimination and persecution. As you know, things get especially bad when the economy gets tight and people start looking for scapegoats.

More accusations of antisemitism today coming from politicians who enjoy the benefits of being in AIPAC’s favor. The minority in the political world are those who have the courage to speak out about injustices on both sides of the Middle East conflict instead of just one side.

 

[tafan2]

Antisemitism involves seeing evil in an entire group of people. It is an illusion, it is blindness. It happens for understandable reasons,

It’s not understandable to me, no matter how common it is. I applaud you desire to forgiveness, but it seems to come with too much “understanding”, or excusing evil.

 

[OneSheep]

It’s not understandable to me, no matter how common it is. I applaud you desire to forgiveness, but it seems to come with too much “understanding”, or excusing evil.

Wow, what a great point to bring into the discussion tafan2!

This is the philosophy forum after all, so why not explore this?

So try this on: given that “understanding” is one of the gifts of the Spirit, do you perhaps see misuse of the gift can lead to “making excuses” for people?

 

[Beryllos]

Lowering the Bar – Antisemitism once referred to really bad stuff, like large-scale oppression and mass murder. These days, if a teenage student pencils a swastika on a school desk, something that used to be considered merely boorish, they call the police and it’s featured on the local TV news.

Andover officials: Swastikas at school were felony hate crime

Andover police are investigating the discovery of three swastikas found drawn on a classroom desk at the town's high school yesterday just hours before the the start of the Jewish holiday Hanu…

www.bostonherald.com

Yeah, we need a more useful definition of antisemitism.

 

[Beryllos]

All men are created equal. Some are more equal than others.
I wrote 5 days ago in this thread about human dignity and how we should look upon every person as another self, and a brother. Sounds good, right? But this principle is not applied uniformly in our world. In the desert regions of Western China, the Chinese government is systematically rounding up hundreds of thousands of Uighur – ethnic Muslims – and locking them up in huge, brand-new concentration camps.

China's hidden camps

What's happened to the vanished Uighurs of Xinjiang?

www.bbc.co.uk

Are politicians and TV commentators up in arms about anti-Uighurism? Sadly, no.

 

[Beryllos]

OneSheep:

Antisemitism involves seeing evil in an entire group of people. It is an illusion, it is blindness. It happens for understandable reasons, but it is an untruth.

It’s not understandable to me, no matter how common it is. I applaud you desire to forgiveness, but it seems to come with too much “understanding”, or excusing evil.

Here we may be misunderstanding the meaning of the word understandable. I often use the word in a rather deliberate, precise way to mean merely that one may understand the link between cause and effect. Some evil acts may be understood and even predicted. That doesn’t mean we are excusing them.

---

So try this on: given that “understanding” is one of the gifts of the Spirit, do you perhaps see misuse of the gift can lead to “making excuses” for people?

Understanding certainly can go wrong, in many ways. The best kind of understanding is that which enables us to bring out the best in other people. With love in our heart, we may perceive the path that leads a person toward evil, and with God’s help we may see another path that leads toward good.

 

[Kaninchen]

Jew-haters really do need a more productive hobby.

 

[Kaninchen]

Yes, wasting one’s life on finding reasons to hate people must be terribly tiring.

 

[Kaninchen]

Actually, I hadn’t read whatever it was you’d written, I was merely responding to the thread title.

 

[Kaninchen]

Christian Identity people, I expect, we came across them when we lived in the US. Something about historic Israel being Aryan, while Judah was spawn of Satan, stuff like that.

 

[Kaninchen]

Do they have weird communities equivalent to the those supremacist cults that hang out in Idaho etc?

 

[Kaninchen]

Religion is like a garden that spawns an awful lot of weeds not only when neglected but also when over-obsessed about.

 

[OneSheep]

These days, if a teenage student pencils a swastika on a school desk, something that used to be considered merely boorish, they call the police and it’s featured on the local TV news.

It does make sense, though, that people react to swastikas, correct? And we react with some negative feelings toward whomever drew them. But yes, rather than staying with judgment, it is fruitful to find the context and consider the possible reasons that a child might draw such a thing. We can consider the worst-case as well as the best-case scenario, and all in-between. “Can I cognitively empathize with all the positions?”

Yeah, we need a more useful definition of antisemitism.

And I think you are also indicating that we need to watch our judging.

Are politicians and TV commentators up in arms about anti-Uighurism? Sadly, no.

That was a very disturbing report. Though I had heard some snippets of persecution, I did not realize the scale. It gave me some hope that our congress refrained from writing legislation that was merely against antisemitism, instead writing a resolution against all prejudice. I’m certain that the UN also has such resolutions or guides. I am wondering if the UN is going to address the situation there in China.

Even the BDS movement needs to be more inclusive in terms of persecuted peoples in occupied territories. Stephen Zunes, a professor at USF, make a strong case for strengthening the movement by including boycott and sanction of the Moroccan beneficiaries of the occupation of Western Sahara. (Note: Our government is also endorsing the occupation there, and the Clinton foundation received money from the Moroccan government).

Again, in order to approach the topic with a peaceful heart, I think we must first remember to forgive (in these cases) the people running Chinese government and the Moroccan government (and the Clintons, while we are at it). They do not know what they are doing, but they intend a good. If that understanding leads to inaction for an individual, then their motivation was not empathy but desire to punish. I’m not saying that there isn’t a place for desire to punish, anger, righteousness, etc., but it behooves us to watch all those emotions and desires, to proceed with reconciled hearts. It will be empathy that drives us.

Does that resonate with you?

 

[OneSheep]

The tricky word can be the word “personally”. I am not accusing you of anything, but many people use the word “personally” to hang onto grudges against people they hold something against (rather than forgive), and the offense is not direct, but indirect (i.e., the offense was against society, religion, ideology, etc.)

Yes that is a common definition; and given that antisemitism is in itself a judgment against someone, the person who claims antisemitism on the part of another puts themselves into the position of “one who has the authority to judge”.

What happens is that criticism of Israeli policies is countered with “that is antisemitic” rather than statements that explain i.e. how Israeli policies are beneficial to all parties. This judging tactic is a red herring, a demonstration of what is called the Kafka fallacy.

Yes, there is at least a grain of truth in many conspiracy theories, but those who make certain statements indicating possible injustice are often met with “that is a conspiracy theory”, which again is a judgment (Kafka fallacy) against the person (“conspiracy theories” have been framed in the media that way), rather than making a counterpoint (i.e., “yes, there are many ethnic Jews in banking, but they are normal people with compassion, empathy, and love just as you and I”).

Just a note: that statement is probably contrary Catholic teaching on human dignity, but it is very common for people to feel some resentment toward human nature. In my view, such resentment is part of the development of the conscience; we come to resent parts of ourselves. Resentment of the part of nature that wants to be in control, and resentment of the capacity to be blinded by anger and hate are both examples of common resentments that help form the conscience. Does that make sense to you?

It is by our nature that we project the resented parts of ourselves/nature onto other people, especially people we find belong to a different “outgroup” or “those people”. Do you agree?

 

[gracepoole]

Lowering the Bar – Antisemitism once referred to really bad stuff, like large-scale oppression and mass murder. These days, if a teenage student pencils a swastika on a school desk, something that used to be considered merely boorish, they call the police and it’s featured on the local TV news.
Andover officials: Swastikas at school were felony hate crime – Boston Herald
Yeah, we need a more useful definition of antisemitism.

No, clearly we need better education on why it matters that swastikas are being shared in our communities.