What role should the Church have in aiding aliens

  • Thread starter Thread starter Xavierlives
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
wabrams said:
No, stealing is taking something that does not belong to you. In the US, you have to be a US citizen or legal alien to work. When someone comes here and gets a job and has neither status, then they are stealing that job.
Click to expand...
And some native Americans believed if you took their picture, you were stealing their soul.

You have to think about this.
  1. If an employer were given the option of hiring American labor or illegal labor (with the possibility of fines) at the same wage, who would they rather hire? That’s right, they would hire the Americans. The problem is, Americans don’t want to work pick tomatoes for minimum wage.
  2. If the employer has to pay the local wage, then they will have tomatoes which cost considerably more than tomatoes imported and what happens then? That’s right, they won’t sell them and they will go out of business.
I’m not saying the system is perfect or one way is right or wrong.

Personally, I spent enough time at the Attorney General’s Office to see horrible exploitation of the Alien workforce. It wasn’t minimum wage, it was 1/7th minimum wage. That is not showing charity either.
 
I had a friend who was an Federal Immigration Judge in central Florida (she has died). When I talked with her 2 years ago, she told me her caseload was so backed up that the cases were 3 years out. Meaning, someone could be picked up for a violation, and the final disposition would not be for three years. These people are released back into society and get to sit in legal limbo the entire time. I could be wrong, but also as I recall she said central Florida had one of the heaviest caseloads for the country and it was sitting near 13,000 cases. Imagine what it would look like if they picked up the 12 million illegals.
 
Xavierlives said:
I had a friend who was an Federal Immigration Judge in central Florida (she has died). When I talked with her 2 years ago, she told me her caseload was so backed up that the cases were 3 years out. Meaning, someone could be picked up for a violation, and the final disposition would not be for three years. These people are released back into society and get to sit in legal limbo the entire time. I could be wrong, but also as I recall she said central Florida had one of the heaviest caseloads for the country and it was sitting near 13,000 cases. Imagine what it would look like if they picked up the 12 million illegals.
Click to expand...
They need to hold court within 3 days after they are picked-up. Scrap the caselaods they have now and start over fresh.
 
Xavierlives said:
I think the whole system is out of whack, but I do not see the Church as the problem.
Click to expand...
I disagree! I think many of the statements made by American bishops are precisely the problem because they are not consistent with past Church documents. Whenever the fundamental values of solidarity and subsidiarity are ignored (as upheld by authentic Church teaching) then we have a turn in the wrong direction and the full interpretation on the teaching of social justice becomes vague and off-kilter. The Magisterium has never taught that preferential treatment should be given the poor, but Liberation Theology, parts of which have been condemned by popes, does advocate just that. In the Instruction on Christian Freedom it states that “while the church seeks the political, social and economic liberation of the downtrodden, its primary goal is the spiritual one of liberation from evil.” If you look closely at the social justice groups being formed within the Church today, they are not concerned with the spiritual, but with giving political power to the oppressed. That’s why the CCHD is in so much trouble now and several bishops are boycotting it.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19860322_freedom-liberation_en.html

Here are thoughts from others to illustrate:
(Emphasis added for clarity are mine)
(Subsidiarity) This principle is a bulwark of limited government and personal freedom. It conflicts with the passion for centralization and bureaucracy characteristic of the Welfare State.
Click to expand...
This is why Pope John Paul II took the “social assistance state” to task in his 1991 encyclical Centesimus Annus. The Pontiff wrote that the Welfare State was contradicting the principle of subsidiarity by intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility. This “leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending.”
Click to expand...
In spite of this clear warning, the United States Catholic Bishops remain staunch defenders of a statist approach to social problems.
Click to expand...
acton.org/publications/randl/rl_article_200.php
Click to expand...
Here is a good article written by a Catholic priest in which he analyzes some of the general statements made by the bishops from a philosophical and theological position:
The real lack of acknowledgement of the common good is manifested, for example, in the primacy given to the welfare of immigrants. Such a perspective obviously shifts the focus away from the more basic truths of the common good, and thus does a disservice to any clarification of the issue. There is an order in charity. As Thomas Aquinas states, “In matters concerning relations between citizens, we should prefer our fellow citizens.”
Click to expand...
In other words, the welfare of the community is a more immediate concern than that of immigrants — which, of course, does not mean that we should not be very sensitive to the latter. Such is the realism, however, of being part of a community. Do we not say that “well-ordered charity begins at home?” Given the reality and legitimacy of the sovereign nation, it is, therefore, important to state that free migration is not a basic human right. Frequent statements like “the Church stands with undocumented immigrants” can easily suggest the contrary. The vagueness of Church statements on immigration leaves one truly wondering what exactly it means to “stand with undocumented immigrants”?
Click to expand...
cis.org/catholics-and-immigration
Click to expand...
 
Xavierlives said:
I had a friend who was an Federal Immigration Judge in central Florida (she has died). When I talked with her 2 years ago, she told me her caseload was so backed up that the cases were 3 years out. Meaning, someone could be picked up for a violation, and the final disposition would not be for three years. These people are released back into society and get to sit in legal limbo the entire time. I could be wrong, but also as I recall she said central Florida had one of the heaviest caseloads for the country and it was sitting near 13,000 cases. Imagine what it would look like if they picked up the 12 million illegals.
Click to expand...
Since they are not USA citizens we should just deport them. they are not guarenteed due process of law.
 
Xavierlives said:
And some native Americans believed if you took their picture, you were stealing their soul.

You have to think about this.
  1. If an employer were given the option of hiring American labor or illegal labor (with the possibility of fines) at the same wage, who would they rather hire? That’s right, they would hire the Americans. The problem is, Americans don’t want to work pick tomatoes for minimum wage.
  2. If the employer has to pay the local wage, then they will have tomatoes which cost considerably more than tomatoes imported and what happens then? That’s right, they won’t sell them and they will go out of business.
I’m not saying the system is perfect or one way is right or wrong.

Personally, I spent enough time at the Attorney General’s Office to see horrible exploitation of the Alien workforce. It wasn’t minimum wage, it was 1/7th minimum wage. That is not showing charity either.
Click to expand...
The business owner will have to charge the same if he wants business, he will just have to take a more reasonable profit rather than living high off the hog.
 
diggerdomer said:
And due process of U.S. law is more important than the Gospel?
Click to expand...
If its your interpetation of it, yes! 10 years ago I got left high and dry when An illegal uninsured alien crashed into my car. Now a few days ago an illegal alien slammed a tow truck into side swiped a car of a good friend of mine as well as 8 other neighbors cars with a tow truck, while driving without a liscense or insurance. They obviously dont respect our laws I say take our federal lawenforcement agents off the war on drugs and put them on the war on illegal aliens. With a nasty divorce because of her husband cheating on her, and 3 little kids to take care of my friend doesnt need this illegal scum to deal with ontop of that.
 
aspawloski4th said:
If its your interpetation of it, yes! 10 years ago I got left high and dry when An illegal uninsured alien crashed into my car. Now a few days ago an illegal alien slammed a tow truck into side swiped a car of a good friend of mine as well as 8 other neighbors cars with a tow truck, while driving without a liscense or insurance. They obviously dont respect our laws I say take our federal lawenforcement agents off the war on drugs and put them on the war on illegal aliens. With a nasty divorce because of her husband cheating on her, and 3 little kids to take care of my friend doesnt need this illegal scum to deal with ontop of that.
Click to expand...
It’s not my interpretation.
 
diggerdomer said:
It’s not my interpretation.
Click to expand...
Thats all you have to say? The Gospel doesn’t say one has to take in someone who intends to take from your society and contribute nothing. Also Catholics are not fundementalists, most of the time we DO NOT interpet the Bilble literally.
 
aspawloski4th said:
Thats all you have to say? The Gospel doesn’t say one has to take in someone who intends to take from your society and contribute nothing. Also Catholics are not fundementalists, most of the time we DO NOT interpet the Bilble literally.
Click to expand...
Well, I thought that was enough, i.e. it’s not my interpretation that U.S. law is above the Gospel. Is there more that needs to be said?

Regarding taking the Bible literally, how about as when we’re told humans are created in the image of God? I tend to treat that literally, as I think Catholic teaching does.
 
diggerdomer said:
Well, I thought that was enough, i.e. it’s not my interpretation that U.S. law is above the Gospel. Is there more that needs to be said?

Regarding taking the Bible literally, how about as when we’re told humans are created in the image of God? I tend to treat that literally, as I think Catholic teaching does.
Click to expand...
Thats irrelevent to the debate. yes the jerk who ran into my friend’s car is created in the image of God, but that doesn’t change the fact that all his money should be taken from him to pay the damages he caused, then deported with just the shirt on his back.
 
aspawloski4th said:
Thats irrelevent to the debate. yes the jerk who ran into my friend’s car is created in the image of God, but that doesn’t change the fact that all his money should be taken from him to pay the damages he caused, then deported with just the shirt on his back.
Click to expand...
Ok, but again, the topic of this thread is aliens, not criminals.
 
diggerdomer said:
And how does that supposed definition relate to the Gospel? Or are you saying the U.S. law defines morality? Abortion is legal…
Click to expand...
Well its debunking your attitude of illagal aliens having to be treated well by US and being allowed to stay here. Us law’s main purpose is to protect the citizen from the criminal, which includes illegal aliens. And please don’t throw abortion into this. Abortion is a whole different debate, which my possition is those participating in an abortion should have the same penalty as what is prescribed for capital crimes.
 
diggerdomer said:
Ok, but again, the topic of this thread is aliens, not criminals.
Click to expand...
If someone violates a countries immigration laws, then they are a criminal for having committed a crime.
diggerdomer said:
And how does that supposed definition relate to the Gospel? Or are you saying the U.S. law defines morality? Abortion is legal…
Click to expand...
What about the teachings of the Church re: obeying just laws? Since you keep mentioning the Gospel, please tell us where it says we have to take in illegal aliens in this country, and I’m not talking about emergency food, shelter or medical care.
 
wabrams said:
If someone violates a countries immigration laws, then they are a criminal for having committed a crime.

What about the teachings of the Church re: obeying just laws? Since you keep mentioning the Gospel, please tell us where it says we have to take in illegal aliens in this country, and I’m not talking about emergency food, shelter or medical care.
Click to expand...
Well if you’re going to restrict when we treat people like humans then there’s no point in my continuing.
 
diggerdomer said:
Well if you’re going to restrict when we treat people like humans then there’s no point in my continuing.
Click to expand...
I’ll tell you what. You take all the illegals in your home and you feed and take care of them your self. The rest of us cant afford them right now. My friend who had her car damaged may have to take money out of a already tight budget to fix a mirror on her car to make it legal to drive to her business, money she doesn’t have. Because of an illegal alien Get rid of the illegals you get rid of a lot of bog problems.
 
aspawloski4th said:
I’ll tell you what. You take all the illegals in your home and you feed and take care of them your self. The rest of us cant afford them right now. My friend who had her car damaged may have to take money out of a already tight budget to fix a mirror on her car to make it legal to drive to her business, money she doesn’t have. Because of an illegal alien Get rid of the illegals you get rid of a lot of bog problems.
Click to expand...
Send them to me. I would be happy to help however I can. Just like the Holy Family in Luke 1-2.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top