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Marilena
Guest
i asked 2 no priests i know if my marriage blessing, and my confirmation ( at request of a family member ) in SSPX were valid, they both said yes.
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Anima_Christi
Guest
WOW. That is breathtaking! Now, if they’d just move that goofy table and chair out of the way…its obstructing our view of the ALTAR and the THRONE of Jesus Christ! :tsktsk:I hope to go down to the oratory in St. Louis for the ICRSS ordinations on June 15th. It will also give me a chance to see the preformation house and to meet our old friend SummaTheo
Should prove to be an enjoyable event.
Here is another favorite that I saw in November (unfortunately with a very disrespectful class):
http://www.omiworld.org/PIC/B_Album_8_3_2005-9_0_4.jpg
Notre Dame de Ottawa. The statues and columns and the rest of the ornamentation may look like marble, but it is really wood. They gilded parts of it in the early 1920s, along with overlaying the belltowers with silver (looks rather tacky to me, although they shine white in the sun).
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Marilena
Guest
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paramedicgirl
Guest
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slowbutfaithful
Guest
Well (IMHO), this is one of the problems of videos/documentaries lilke the one posted here. It can leave the impression that the abuses and changes highlighted in the video are pervasive and have become the norm within the post-V2 Church. This simply isn’t the case.
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LilyM
Guest
In my 33 years of attending exclusively NO masses in Australia and elsewhere (and that includes 13 years of Catholic school and a year of almost daily Mass now, so I can assure you it’s been more often than weekly!) I have NEVER seen anything approaching a Clown Mass, Polka Mass, Costume Mass (Halloween, Barney or any other kind) Baguette or Waffle or Cookie Mass or 80% of any of the stuff in that video.
Obviously they’ve happened, they were filmed, and abuses do happen and I occasionally see them and reprobate them. But it is dishonest to suggest that they are the norm, and it is incredibly dishonest to dress up a dislike for bland or bad music (as long as the lyrics are theologically sound) or potentially uninspiring liturgical language or homilies or a love of loads of statuary or fiddleback chasubles as anything other than a personal preference.
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Lepanto
Guest
I must be the only person on the planet with dial-up, so there’s no way I can watch streaming videos.
Is there a link whereby I can try downloading this video? I’d really like to see this movie.
Is there a link whereby I can try downloading this video? I’d really like to see this movie.
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paramedicgirl
Guest
go to you tube and type in latin mass in their search bar.
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Caesar
Guest
Of course. And you are absolutely right on all those points.
Believe it or not, at one time I laughed at the idea of latin, and and the priest with his back to the congregation and kneeling at a rail to recieve Holy Communion. I only knew Mass in english, with the priest facing the people, strolling around the altar during the homily and happy-clappy music. I thought that this was the Mass everywhere and everyone liked it, and why on earth would anyone want to bring back all that old pre-Vatican II junk?
Before my confirmation my family had stopped going to Mass, very gradualy- we went every other week, then every month, then Christmas and Easter and finally for several years not at all. After my confirmation in 2003 I began going to sunday Mass by myself. Eventually I decided I wanted to be a priest (a ressurected idea from my childhood as an altar boy).
I began to read about the lives of the Saints and I got into the ministries of St. Ignatius of Loyola and St. Francis Xavier and the Canadian Martyrs, and I decided I wanted to be a Jesuit. Their history was full of Saints and Maryrs and inspiring stories. The fact that so many of these priests and brothers had so great a faith to go to their deaths in the name of God and the Church overwhelmed me. Then I began to read about the Jesuits today. Despite my inexperience and poor religious education I could easily see there were problems. Eventually I realized that the Jesuits who inspired me were long dead and the Society of Jesus that I wanted to join had been replaced by a corrupt order that wouldnt give up its academic image to defend the faith that its brethren died for. So I gave up on the Jesuits.
My education was very poor. The religion classes were watered-down, oversimplified. I was never taught anything about Grace or Papal Infallibility or Church history or anything like that. I had to find out on my own that one cannot recieve communion under the stain of mortal sin- not once had any of my teachers or priests mentioned that. My sisters converted to the ultra-liberal United Church of Canada. My mother said Mass wasnt important and wouldnt go. I started to learn on my own and a whole new image of the Church opened up to me- this was an embattled Church trying to defend it’s traditional doctrines from the blows of an increasingly hostile secular world. And these blows were coming from within and without. I went to protestant services with my sisters and couldnt believe how similar they were to the Masses I was going to on sundays.
I learned about the Mass, and was shocked to see that such beauty and tradition still existed in some places. I read about traditional priests and the Tridentine Mass and the truth behind the teachings of Vatican II and the Liturgical Reforms (ie. that the NO was not the direct product of Vatican II and that latin and ad orientem altars were still allowed, among other things).
Then one day I saw a film of a Solemn Mass narrarated by Archbishop Fulton Sheen- halfway through the Kyrie all I could think was “this is Catholic!”. I found a Tridentine Mass near me, and now I go regularly, and I want nothing more then to devote my life to administering the Sacraments in the traditions of the Church as they have been for 2000 years.
And that is basicaly how I came to the Tridentine Mass
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paramedicgirl
Guest
That’s a wonderful story Caesar! Very inspiring.Of course. And you are absolutely right on all those points.
Believe it or not, at one time I laughed at the idea of latin, and and the priest with his back to the congregation and kneeling at a rail to recieve Holy Communion. I only knew Mass in english, with the priest facing the people, strolling around the altar during the homily and happy-clappy music. I thought that this was the Mass everywhere and everyone liked it, and why on earth would anyone want to bring back all that old pre-Vatican II junk?
Before my confirmation my family had stopped going to Mass, very gradualy- we went every other week, then every month, then Christmas and Easter and finally for several years not at all. After my confirmation in 2003 I began going to sunday Mass by myself. Eventually I decided I wanted to be a priest (a ressurected idea from my childhood as an altar boy).
I began to read about the lives of the Saints and I got into the ministries of St. Ignatius of Loyola and St. Francis Xavier and the Canadian Martyrs, and I decided I wanted to be a Jesuit. Their history was full of Saints and Maryrs and inspiring stories. The fact that so many of these priests and brothers had so great a faith to go to their deaths in the name of God and the Church overwhelmed me. Then I began to read about the Jesuits today. Despite my inexperience and poor religious education I could easily see there were problems. Eventually I realized that the Jesuits who inspired me were long dead and the Society of Jesus that I wanted to join had been replaced by a corrupt order that wouldnt give up its academic image to defend the faith that its brethren died for. So I gave up on the Jesuits.
My education was very poor. The religion classes were watered-down, oversimplified. I was never taught anything about Grace or Papal Infallibility or Church history or anything like that. I had to find out on my own that one cannot recieve communion under the stain of mortal sin- not once had any of my teachers or priests mentioned that. My sisters converted to the ultra-liberal United Church of Canada. My mother said Mass wasnt important and wouldnt go. I started to learn on my own and a whole new image of the Church opened up to me- this was an embattled Church trying to defend it’s traditional doctrines from the blows of an increasingly hostile secular world. And these blows were coming from within and without. I went to protestant services with my sisters and couldnt believe how similar they were to the Masses I was going to on sundays.
I learned about the Mass, and was shocked to see that such beauty and tradition still existed in some places. I read about traditional priests and the Tridentine Mass and the truth behind the teachings of Vatican II and the Liturgical Reforms (ie. that the NO was not the direct product of Vatican II and that latin and ad orientem altars were still allowed, among other things).
Then one day I saw a film of a Solemn Mass narrarated by Archbishop Fulton Sheen- halfway through the Kyrie all I could think was “this is Catholic!”. I found a Tridentine Mass near me, and now I go regularly, and I want nothing more then to devote my life to administering the Sacraments in the traditions of the Church as they have been for 2000 years.
And that is basicaly how I came to the Tridentine Mass
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tassitus
Guest
WOW. Were we all so lucky to live near such a beautiful church (am I wrong to covet???
)…All these comparisons of alters, some just adequate and some quite spectacular, remind me of something we all should be grateful for at this time:
http://www.navytimes.com/content/editorial/editart/aug23chaplain.JPG
Navy Lt. Cmdr. Paul Shaughnessy, a Catholic chaplain, conducts Mass for a group of Marines at Camp Hotel in the northern area of the besieged city of Najaf, Iraq. — Todd Pitman / AP
Now where should one’s attention be drawn in this Mass?
Peace all.
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Lepanto
Guest
Is this the same video? This is the closest in topic that I found on You-Tube to the one mentioned by the OP in the first post:
Reform or Revolt: The Mass of Pope Paul VI
Also, I could not find a way on You Tube to download. Please help!
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AnnieD
Guest
In our town, an 80 year old woman would kneel to receive Holy Communion, and she was told she couldn’t do that anymore because she would be bringing attention to herself and when she tried to do it again, the Priest told her she couldn’t go to the church anymore.
The sad thing is, that most people just go along with what the Priests say, they don’t check into the validity of the Priest’s statements and arguments.
Annie
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Victorious
Guest
I haven’t had time to look at the video, but I can guarantee you there are plenty of people who support turning the Mass into their own personal plaything. My diocese is full of them.
To the extent this is true, it’s only true to a point. You can’t validly baptize in the name of the Parent, the Child and the Womb (or whatever other kooky “trinitarian” formulations are floating around out there).
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slowbutfaithful
Guest
Yep. and frankly, I’m getting tired of hearing/seeing this kind of whining. If you truly believe that “the gates of hell will not prevail over it”, find an orthodox home and stick with it. Let the few oddballs crumble.
In my 33 years of attending exclusively NO masses in Australia and elsewhere (and that includes 13 years of Catholic school and a year of almost daily Mass now, so I can assure you it’s been more often than weekly!) I have NEVER seen anything approaching a Clown Mass, Polka Mass, Costume Mass (Halloween, Barney or any other kind) Baguette or Waffle or Cookie Mass or 80% of any of the stuff in that video.
Obviously they’ve happened, they were filmed, and abuses do happen and I occasionally see them and reprobate them. But it is dishonest to suggest that they are the norm, and it is incredibly dishonest to dress up a dislike for bland or bad music (as long as the lyrics are theologically sound) or potentially uninspiring liturgical language or homilies or a love of loads of statuary or fiddleback chasubles as anything other than a personal preference.
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anamchara
Guest
Thanks slow, I missed this post! Most awesome and I agree
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Marilena
Guest
here is a picture of the altar at our little church,and 1 of the Confirmation Mass.
http://www.brightlightsoftware.com/images/sspxphoto.jpg
http://www.brightlightsoftware.com/images/sspxphoto.jpg
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lak611
Guest
I’ll second that!Thanks slow, I missed this post! Most awesome and I agree
:clapping:
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AJV
Guest
I was addressing that it says nowhere in the current that the altar should be a table, or that current altars replaced by them, or whatever.
Firstly it is not as if the traditional books never speak of the mensa of the altar. Secondly, if you think that this came about with the NO…Pius XII in the Assisi address stated that methods for preserving the altar and tabernacle but still allowing versus populum would be decided by “experts.” Three were proposed later: a tabernacle built into the front of the altar, a tabernacle suspended from a canopy like the hanging pyx, and placing another in front of the main altar. No guesses as to which one was deemed most feasible. This was later expanded in the interpretation of the 1957 Instruction: Bugsy wrote a commentary in Eph.Liturgicae in which it was specifically mentioned that a table may be used. So did McMannus in Worship.
I’m (eagerly) anticipating the response by those who agreed with the statement of AnimaChristi-a nice comparison of the Divine service and the Mass from any missal after 1970.
Firstly it is not as if the traditional books never speak of the mensa of the altar. Secondly, if you think that this came about with the NO…Pius XII in the Assisi address stated that methods for preserving the altar and tabernacle but still allowing versus populum would be decided by “experts.” Three were proposed later: a tabernacle built into the front of the altar, a tabernacle suspended from a canopy like the hanging pyx, and placing another in front of the main altar. No guesses as to which one was deemed most feasible. This was later expanded in the interpretation of the 1957 Instruction: Bugsy wrote a commentary in Eph.Liturgicae in which it was specifically mentioned that a table may be used. So did McMannus in Worship.
I’m (eagerly) anticipating the response by those who agreed with the statement of AnimaChristi-a nice comparison of the Divine service and the Mass from any missal after 1970.
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