What We Have Lost & the Road to Restoration

[lak611]

I’ve seen the other side. I’ve seen people ticked at who genuflect and people stand up and walk out on a Rosary then come back for mass.

Maybe they only planned on coming for Mass. Perhaps they planned on saying their own prayers and then Mass. There is nothing FORCING people to go to Church for the rosary. I say them at home but never in Church.

 

[Marilena]

Despite what some TLM haters think, I also promote a reverent NO Mass.
And I would love to have access to one

 

[E.E.N.S]

Despite what some TLM haters think, I also promote a reverent NO Mass.
And I would love to have access to one

There is one celebrated by Miles Jesu (religious order) in my diocese, but they typically use traditional hymns more then Gregorian Chant. They are very small and can only hold about 30+ people.

They are bi-ritual. (Byzantine/Latin)

 

[AquinaSavio]

You mean this one? (Assumption Grotto Parish)

http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/1659/2191/400/448044/MM06 056_a.jpg

mortuummundo.blogspot.com/2006/12/some-of-you-may-wish-to-go-look-at.html

This is how the NO Mass should be!

I want to go! I want to go! I want to go!!! :thumbsup:

 

[proud2bcatholic]

Just for clarification, it is a neighboring parish - St. Tim’s - (actually closer to me than my own parish), but I belong to Mater Misericordiae, (a FSSP parish that celebrates the TLM).

Sadly I was at some of those Masses which they show at St. Tim’s.

I now remember being at the Mass where they do the Limbo.

The Confirmation in the ballpark that they showed, that was at Bank One Ballpark, that happened the year before I was Confirmed.

I was also at the event in which Bishop O’Brien asked for forgiveness in that video, including forgiveness for withholding the Sacraments from those whom are divorced and remarried.

I also recognize a couple of other priests and parishes in that video.

Man, my views have changed drastically over the last few years, praise God, and so has our Diocese.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Sadly I was at some of those Masses which they show at St. Tim’s.

I now remember being at the Mass where they do the Limbo.

The Confirmation in the ballpark that they showed, that was at Bank One Ballpark, that happened the year before I was Confirmed.

I was also at the event in which Bishop O’Brien asked for forgiveness in that video, including forgiveness for withholding the Sacraments from those whom are divorced and remarried.

I also recognize a couple of other priests and parishes in that video.

Man, my views have changed drastically over the last few years, praise God, and so has our Diocese.

Praise God for Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted!

 

[lizaanne]

As you know from our church, even bare bones and tons of dark wood can be made reverent and beautiful with statues and candles!

Yes - that is an excellent example and makes my point perfectly.

~Liza

 

[LCMS_No_More]

And what do you suggest to someone who cannot find an orthodox home.

People come here thinking that we can all just pop over to the orthodox church and be done with it.

Well, what happens if you’re in Albany, Orange, LA, Altoona or Cleveland where you may find ONE in the entire Diocese, if that.

That’s not fair. I can name at least two orthodox Catholic parishes in the Archdiocese of LA.

 

[netmilsmom]

Maybe they only planned on coming for Mass. Perhaps they planned on saying their own prayers and then Mass. There is nothing FORCING people to go to Church for the rosary. I say them at home but never in Church.

No, it was a statement made my the DRE and those she helped put into a position of power. They walked out.

And with that, why would anyone give up the indulgence that comes with saying a Rosary with a group only to sit in a car?

 

[E.E.N.S]

That’s not fair. I can name at least two orthodox Catholic parishes in the Archdiocese of LA.

LOL, I couldn’t help but laugh at this statement when considering the size on the Archdiocese of LA.

It’s not funny in actuality. The vast majority of parishes should be orthodox. When we have to strive to find one is a bad thing.

 

[proud2bcatholic]

Praise God for Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted!

Amen!

 

[netmilsmom]

LOL, I couldn’t help but laugh at this statement when considering the size on the Archdiocese of LA.

It’s not funny in actuality. The vast majority of parishes should be orthodox. When we have to strive to find one is a bad thing.

Really! How many miles is the Archdiocese of LA?
How many people?

And define orthodox.

To some people, kneeling at the consecration but handholding at the Our Father is orthodox!

 

[netmilsmom]

Despite what some TLM haters think, I also promote a reverent NO Mass.
And I would love to have access to one

I do attend one.
I also don’t think there is a reason why the TLM should be the one mass NOT allowed.

And I know I will probably get slammed but if the tables turned the other way, and the TLM took over, I would be defending the other ways to worship.

 

[E.E.N.S]

Really! How many miles is the Archdiocese of LA?
How many people?

And define orthodox.

To some people, kneeling at the consecration but handholding at the Our Father is orthodox!

To answer your questions:

1. Are we talking about L.A. or LA? I was thinking L.A., which if I’m not mistaken has about 200 parishes, so 2 would constitute only 1% of the parishes being orthodox. (Using the said number 2 that is.)
2. Conforming to established doctrine especially in religion.
3. (This was not a question, but I am addressing it anyway.) When one speaks of orthodoxy it is generally from the viewpoint of the Church, not from the individual.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I do attend one.
I also don’t think there is a reason why the TLM should be the one mass NOT allowed.

And I know I will probably get slammed but if the tables turned the other way, and the TLM took over, I would be defending the other ways to worship.

That’s just it. The people who staunchly defend the NO accuse the TLM goers of wanting the NO to be abolished, when all the traditional Catholics want is to have access to the TLM. How would those same people feel if the TLM replaced their beloved NO, and all they had access to was a few indult NO’s scattered over the map? They have a very self-absorbed viewpoint, IMO.

 

[E.E.N.S]

That’s just it. The people who staunchly defend the NO accuse the TLM goers of wanting the NO to be abolished, when all the traditional Catholics want is to have access to the TLM. How would those same people feel if the TLM replaced their beloved NO, and all they had access to was a few indult NO’s scattered over the map? They have a very self-absorbed viewpoint, IMO.

What I would like, idealy, would be equal access to both the NO and the TLM, as well as the sense of the sacred restored in our churches, music and art. The NO would have the properly translated text, with Gregorian Chant taking pride of place among sacred music, much wider use of Latin within the Mass, and the high altar brought back with the *ad orientem *posture…oh and only male altar servers!

To list the important few things. (All of which are what the Church has called for since VII, but nobody listened aparently.)

 

[dumspirospero]

I could not agree more…all the traditional Catholics I have ever spoken to…that are in communion with The Holy See…only want to have unrestricted access to the TLM…they have never, ever called for the Novus Ordo to be abbrogated or anything close to that…they have only asked that the Novus Ordo be celebrated in a reverant atmosphere. I don’t believe that is a huge request…now on the other hand, I have seen plenty of those wishing to completely eliminate the TLM…doesn’t seem very fair.

That’s just it. The people who staunchly defend the NO accuse the TLM goers of wanting the NO to be abolished, when all the traditional Catholics want is to have access to the TLM. How would those same people feel if the TLM replaced their beloved NO, and all they had access to was a few indult NO’s scattered over the map? They have a very self-absorbed viewpoint, IMO.

 

[dumspirospero]

I hear ya…sounds like my point of view as well…lets actually follow what VII called for…because it said Latin is to be widely used during certain parts of The Mass…Gregorian Chant is favored as well…and the other things mentioned were never abolished by VII…so why did they even change in the first place??? Let’s reinstate these things, since they should have never left in the in first place.

What I would like, idealy, would be equal access to both the NO and the TLM, as well as the sense of the sacred restored in our churches, music and art. The NO would have the properly translated text, with Gregorian Chant taking pride of place among sacred music, much wider use of Latin within the Mass, and the high altar brought back with the *ad orientem *posture…oh and only male altar servers!

To list the important few things. (All of which are what the Church has called for since VII, but nobody listened aparently.)

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Really! How many miles is the Archdiocese of LA?
How many people?

And define orthodox.

To some people, kneeling at the consecration but handholding at the Our Father is orthodox!

Take into account that I’ve only been to five in the archdiocese (all within 5-10 miles of downtown LA, by the way).

In my parish, some people hold hands during the Our Father but Father caught it once (he closes his eyes during the Our Father but during the Filipino Christmas Novea (simbangabe?), it’s in Tagalog and he doesn’t do tagalog, so he watched and made mention of the fact that hand-holding and orans are verboten. There’s been a LOT less since then. Also, Father has exhorted the faithful to receive Holy Communion on the tongue and almost everyone complies. Confessions always have lines and usually two or three priests hearing at a time. We have good daily Mass attendance AND a usually packed-out Novena to our Lady of Perpetual Help followed by Mass on Wednesday evenings. Two of our Sunday Masses have parts chanted in Latin and the pastor says the words of consecration, the “per ipsum” and the “ecce agnus dei” in Latin (unless he’s concelebrating). Oh, we also burn a LOT of incense during our Masses.

That’s all orthopraxy (right practice).

When I say orthodox, I mean you have good, solid catechesis and exhortation coming from the pulpit during the homilies (some of which are rather fiery!) and no-nonsense petitions during the Prayer of the Faithful. That’s orthodoxy.

That’s MY parish. There’s another parish in the most liberal part of the area which offers Gregorian chant and an actual altar rail that is USED. The homilies are good and solid and exhort people to holiness.

 

[Karin]

I have no problem with being called a low down traditionalist.
I’ll stand by it and not have a problem at all because I have seen the other side of the coin.
I’ve been told, “There is something in the water over there.” at my very traditional parish.
and, “I don’t understand people like you.”

I’ve seen the other side. I’ve seen people ticked at who genuflect and people stand up and walk out on a Rosary then come back for mass. I heard people freak out at the thought of getting habited nuns talking to young girls for vocations.

While they slam us, they push people away.
While they cheer how wonderful they are, they insult a group of Catholics and say how Protestants are better than us. Okay, whatever.

Maybe it’s time to stop thinking WWJD and start wondering WWTVD (what would the Vatican do) because they know what Jesus wants and not us.

Bless you Sonny! We are what we are and we know where our hearts are.

Marilena, the text that I saw quoted from my blog (thanks to a response from another poster, since I have had to use that hand dandy little IGNORE feature) is the text that came with the video. They are not my original words.

I have to get that handy button working again!
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I see that Karin helped me out there with the post. We are not a TLM parish but there is no reason why we can’t become as reverent as possible in the NO, right?

Totally correct…a more reverent NO is a GOOD THING, but that is just my opinion.
":

Just because we use girls doesn’t mean I can’t kick it old school I think most on this thread would love to see at least a very reverent NO.

when you said “traditional” most of us think altar boys only…sorry for the confusion, at least on my part.

For the record:

I promote the TLM, but I promote the NO to be celebrated properly (i.e., Gregorian Chant, much wider use of Latin, altar boys, etc.) because that is what the Church calls for. I am not anti-NO at all; I AM anti-abuses! (However, you’d be hard pressed to find a parish these days that isn’t chock full of abuses.)

I’d like to add that I concur with St. Bernard of Clairvaux when he said that churches should not be embellished to the point of distraction from God. A simpler church…less adorned with distractions is a better one for me.

If you walk into a church and can not tell it is a Catholic Church then we have a problem!

I and any other Catholic should be able to walk into a C.C. and not play hide and seek to find the tabernacle…just an example…many newer Churchs have them hidden away somewhere…why?

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