What We Have Lost & the Road to Restoration

[dumspirospero]

Don’t worry about her…it is obvious by her comments and the comments of others, that there just isn’t any room in the Church for us according to Modernists…it is funny…those that embrace ecumenism with wide open arms want to kick out the most orthodox Catholics in their ranks…guess they have to make room for the protestants, clowns, EMHC’s dressed up as Satan, Jedi’s, and Bon Jovi style bands…how sad.

You still don’t get it, do you? Let me rephrase it. Slowly.

I believe there is plenty of room for both the Novus Ordo and the Tridentine Rite. I don’t think Catholics should be forced to attend one or the other due to lack of availability of either Mass. No one should feel threatened that one Mass will exclude the other. The Novus Ordo is here to stay. I just wish the Tridentine Latin Mass was available, too, for those who desire it.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Don’t worry about her…it is obvious by her comments and the comments of others, that there just isn’t any room in the Church for us according to Modernists…it is funny…those that embrace ecumenism with wide open arms want to kick out the most orthodox Catholics in their ranks…guess they have to make room for the protestants, clowns, EMHC’s dressed up as Satan, Jedi’s, and Bon Jovi style bands…how sad.

Yes, one can easily perceive that from reading posts such as the one Lily just made.

 

[brotherhrolf]

St. Mary’s Assumption in New Orleans where Blessed Father Seelos’ remains are. And right across the street was the church of my mother’s family - St. Alphonsus!

asergeev.com/pictures/archives/compress/2006/519/jpeg/18.jpg

My brother and I served at my grandmother’s requiem mass in 1965 when the vestments were still black. St. Alphonsus was the Irish parish and St. Mary’s was the German parish.

Sigh.

 

[LilyM]

Gotta love noble simplicity!

The beauty of our faith is that it IS in fact the same Christ on every altar and in every tabernacle in every one of those pictures. Which should be good enough for me, you or any believing Catholic.

When I was in Rome I saw the cramped, dingy, claustrophobic little catacombs where Mass was said in the early centuries of Christianity on the very same day I saw St Peters and the Vatican. I felt the same Christ in each of those places too.

The rest of the architecture and ornamentation, whatever it may look like, is fluff and padding. Nice fluff and padding in some cases, not to my taste in others.

And truth to tell, even among traditional churches there are styles that I find much more uplifting and inspiring than others. I can’t stand overdone baroque ornamentation, for example, which I saw far too much of in my travels in Europe.

Perhaps if I had been born in a different time and place I’d have taken myself out into the desert and become a hermit or something, because I honestly do have moods where that spartan brick-and-tile box would suit me best.

 

[Caesar]

St. Mary’s Assumption in New Orleans where Blessed Father Seelos’ remains are. And right across the street was the church of my mother’s family - St. Alphonsus!

asergeev.com/pictures/archives/compress/2006/519/jpeg/18.jpg

My brother and I served at my grandmother’s requiem mass in 1965 when the vestments were still black. St. Alphonsus was the Irish parish and St. Mary’s was the German parish.

Sigh.

Thats beautiful! I hope it didnt get damaged in the hurricane.

 

[dumspirospero]

Leonard…absolutely breathtaking…A far cry from some of the parishes I have encountered. Thanks for posting that picture.

St. Mary’s Assumption in New Orleans where Blessed Father Seelos’ remains are. And right across the street was the church of my mother’s family - St. Alphonsus!

asergeev.com/pictures/archives/compress/2006/519/jpeg/18.jpg

My brother and I served at my grandmother’s requiem mass in 1965 when the vestments were still black. St. Alphonsus was the Irish parish and St. Mary’s was the German parish.

Sigh.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

Your talking about Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral, wreckovated by Cardinal Mahony.

OLAC was not wreckovated, it was designed from the ground up by His Eminence. The former Cathedral, St. Vibiana’s was severely damaged by the Northridge Quake in 1994. It was decided that since St. Vibiana’s was so small (it was smaller than most parish churches in the LA area!) that a new, grander Cathedral was needed; thus OLAC.

The most sacandalous piece of ‘art’ in that egyptian temple however was the statue of Our Lady in the front.

Dressed like a pagan godess, shaven like a Macy’s plastic model (literally), and without a veil or even any sign of prayerful piety.

It’s in the entrance for the South Ambulatory and it’s very…modern. The statue is genderless and even raceless. The only hint as to who it is intended to represent is the moon she stands upon. Now, next to the entrance to the North Ambulatory (where the reconciliation chapel (with private confession rooms) is located) is a more appropriate image of Our Lady of Guadalupe which always has some candles and flowers next to it.

The Blessed Sacrament Chapel is in the South Ambulatory and it’s not that hard to find if you walk in through the main entrance (the one with the genderless statue). While I’m no fan of the tabernacle (it’s more modern than religious art but it doesn’t look like a hot dog bun to me!), it does contain our Blessed Lord. Sometimes they do have the outer covering opened, exposing a beautiful monstrance in which sits enthroned our Blessed Lord (of course, the inner door remains closed).

Aside from the fact that VALID sacraments are celebrated and Masses are offered, the Cathedral’s tapestries along the walls of the nave are very well done and quite beautiful. They contain the images of many, many saints (with their names above or below them) all facing the altar. The images aren’t modern dreck but are realistic in appearance. In a way, it does indeed help one to realize that the Mass is truly where we worship here on earth in participation with the saints up in heaven.

I’m no fan of OLAC and wish it could have been built along more traditional lines, it IS the seat of the Catholic Church in Los Angeles and we can hope that His Eminence’s successor is more orthodox and can make a silk purse out of this apparent sow’s ear. With God, all things are possible, after all.

 

[AquinaSavio]

St. Mary’s Assumption in New Orleans where Blessed Father Seelos’ remains are. And right across the street was the church of my mother’s family - St. Alphonsus!

asergeev.com/pictures/archives/compress/2006/519/jpeg/18.jpg

My brother and I served at my grandmother’s requiem mass in 1965 when the vestments were still black. St. Alphonsus was the Irish parish and St. Mary’s was the German parish.

Sigh.

Wow…awesome!

 

[LCMS_No_More]

St. Mary’s Assumption in New Orleans where Blessed Father Seelos’ remains are. And right across the street was the church of my mother’s family - St. Alphonsus!

asergeev.com/pictures/archives/compress/2006/519/jpeg/18.jpg

My brother and I served at my grandmother’s requiem mass in 1965 when the vestments were still black. St. Alphonsus was the Irish parish and St. Mary’s was the German parish.

Sigh.

I’'ve always wondered two things. One is on topic as it’s in the pic shown here: First, why is it that the pulpit/ambo is located on a raised platform with a roof over it?

This one off-topic, but since I’m asking questions…Second, why do the altar servers grab hold of the priest’s chasuble as he elevates the host and chalice during the TLM?

 

[brotherhrolf]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I wish I could post a before/after photo but the before photos are not on-line. My parish. Lovely stained glass, lovely mosaic stations. Tabernacle is behind the side altar on the right. Photo taken under the choir loft which was rebuilt in 1992. No high altar but the altar does look stunning when draped in gold brocade, etc. The crucifix is huge and dominates the buildings. Acoustics are awesome. Don’t like some of the banners (I know the person responsible and that person has good and bad ideas). I’m comfortable with this.

 

[CatholicNick]

I can’t stand overdone baroque ornamentation, for example, which I saw far too much of in my travels in Europe

I absolutely love the “overdone” ornamentation in Baroque architecture/churches… truly Catholic. Our Lord deserves the best we can ever muster to build. But, I guess we can have differing opinions.

I cant stand blatently purposeful banal settings for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass - which fail to lift our hearts up to heaven.

 

[Caesar]

http://www.neworleanschurches.com/br_stjos/stjoscath3.jpg

I wish I could post a before/after photo but the before photos are not on-line. My parish. Lovely stained glass, lovely mosaic stations. Tabernacle is behind the side altar on the right. Photo taken under the choir loft which was rebuilt in 1992. No high altar but the altar does look stunning when draped in gold brocade, etc. The crucifix is huge and dominates the buildings. Acoustics are awesome. Don’t like some of the banners (I know the person responsible and that person has good and bad ideas). I’m comfortable with this.

Not bad, although seems a little plain for a Cathedral, especialy in Louisiana. What year was it built?

 

[brotherhrolf]

I’'ve always wondered two things. One is on topic as it’s in the pic shown here: First, why is it that the pulpit/ambo is located on a raised platform with a roof over it?

This one off-topic, but since I’m asking questions…Second, why do the altar servers grab hold of the priest’s chasuble as he elevates the host and chalice during the TLM?

I don’t really know about the pulpit/ambo question. Most of the churches I’ve been in that were constructed after 1900 or so don’t have this feature. St. Mary’s an St. Alphonsus were built in the mid-1850s.

I don’t know the reason for holding the priest’s chasuble during the consecration except that it was always done as when as when the priest/bishop was censing the altar.

 

[Caesar]

This one off-topic, but since I’m asking questions…Second, why do the altar servers grab hold of the priest’s chasuble as he elevates the host and chalice during the TLM?

In the old days the Fiddleback chasuble was often heavy, and sometimes decorated with jewels and such. If the priest turned quickly there was a chance that the chasuble could knock over the chalice. Also, it is supposed to make it easier for the priest to raise his arms during the elavation.

 

[LilyM]

Don’t worry about her…it is obvious by her comments and the comments of others, that there just isn’t any room in the Church for us according to Modernists…it is funny…those that embrace ecumenism with wide open arms want to kick out the most orthodox Catholics in their ranks…guess they have to make room for the protestants, clowns, EMHC’s dressed up as Satan, Jedi’s, and Bon Jovi style bands…how sad.

Now who’s telling who what they think

I wouldn’t tolerate a costume Mass (which I thank God every day I have never ever encountered personally or even heard of taking place in this country), or rock music in church or anything like - not even something as trivial as handholding during the Our Father for heaven’s sake!

And I have gone to great lengths personally to both avoid and discourage the above behaviours when I have encountered them. And don’t get me started on protestants!

The fact is not enough people (celebrants and attendees) want or care about the TLM to make it worthwhile having it as a regular fixture every week in every single parish.

If you can make me or anyone else care enough to change things, great. It ain’t going to happen simply by moaning exaggeratedly about (in my experience rare or non-existent) abuses like the above.

 

[Walking_Home]

It’s in the entrance for the South Ambulatory and it’s very…modern. The statue is genderless and even raceless. The only hint as to who it is intended to represent is the moon she stands upon. Now, next to the entrance to the North Ambulatory (where the reconciliation chapel (with private confession rooms) is located) is a more appropriate image of Our Lady of Guadalupe which always has some candles and flowers next to it.​

Genderless-- --why on earth would anyone have a genderless statue to represent our Holy Mother.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Not bad, although seems a little plain for a Cathedral, especialy in Louisiana. What year was it built?

The current cathedral wasn’t built as a cathedral per se. It was a church within the Archdiocese of New Orleans and built in the 1850s. It suffered damage during the War of Northern Agression since the Union fleet actually shelled the church. Baton Rouge became a diocese in the early 60s and the then designated cathedral was renovated to reflect post- VII architecture. They ripped out the existing choir loft and the existing pipe organ and installed the Great Hoover - electronic organ which literally blew up during the wedding of a choir member in the late 80s precipitating a crisis which eventually resulted in the choir loft and a new astounding pipe organ.

In the intervening years since this photo was taken, a whole lot of the statuary which was part of the existing high altar has been returned to the cathedral and incorporated in other adaptations.

 

[Caesar]

The current cathedral wasn’t built as a cathedral per se. It was a church within the Archdiocese of New Orleans and built in the 1850s. It suffered damage during the War of Northern Agression since the Union fleet actually shelled the church. Baton Rouge became a diocese in the early 60s and the then designated cathedral was renovated to reflect post- VII architecture. They ripped out the existing choir loft and the existing pipe organ and installed the Great Hoover - electronic organ which literally blew up during the wedding of a choir member in the late 80s precipitating a crisis which eventually resulted in the choir loft and a new astounding pipe organ.

In the intervening years since this photo was taken, a whole lot of the statuary which was part of the existing high altar has been returned to the cathedral and incorporated in other adaptations.

Ah, I see. I was just curious since areas with a heavy French influcnce usualy produce heavily ornamented churches, especialy Cathedrals. Not bad though.

 

[LilyM]

I’'ve always wondered two things. One is on topic as it’s in the pic shown here: First, why is it that the pulpit/ambo is located on a raised platform with a roof over it?

Not sure about the roof, but I’d hazard a guess that having the pulpit/ambo raised like that would be better acoustically (remember there were no electronic sound systems around when these churches were built) and possibly helped the congregation to better see the reader or celebrant as well.

 

[anamchara]

The beautiful architecture of the 1800’s and before is not something that would be designed today nor would it be possible to even construct due to the lack of money if not the total absence of craftsmanship.

Does that mean that we should just put up and shut up with the bare bones Churches built during that era? No, I think it is entirely possible to make them into very reverent and appropriate places of Catholic worship. Even of the most traditional type. It only takes a parish and a priest who want it badly enough to do it.

~Liza

Thanks Liza for your insight, I had thought of this as well but I remember being told that the crafsmanship needed to make those beautiful desgins are very costly, also stain glass windows I know are NOT cheap.

No it doesn’t mean we should just shut up and put up with a bare bones Church. We can make them better I agree but I do believe it takes the people in the parish as well who want it. In our very old parish which is beautiful btw, has many stain glass windows that were donated by long past parishioners. I think people at one time used to give so much more to their parish in money then they do now. If your not in a very wealthy area, it would be very hard to raise the funds needed. But like I said, it used to be different I think. Sadly peoples priorites are not the same.

Our priest from our old parish used to make comments about this because we did not have an actual Church. It’s a brand new area we live in with lots of young families and these parishioners decided to build a school over a Church. So they now worship it was will be the schools multi purpose room. This was before I started going there, anyway I guess it caused a huge split in the parish and many left. This parish is now I believe over 13 yrs old. Many want an actual Church but so many don’t give enough money. Anyway the Priest used to make comments about “all these fancy cars in the parking lot” and why they don’t have enough to build the Church. He did have a point and I kind of agreed with him. It’s right in the middle of this pretty wealthy area where most of the homes go for over a quarter of a million dollars. The cars are not cheap either, I can tell you. Also, I was told that certain ethnic groups are terrible about giving because in thier country many things like Churches are paid for.

I think families at one time gave so much more time and money to the Church.