What's the Problem with Profanity?

[St_Aloysius]

LilyM:

I can assure you I don’t adore people who swear and think it’s a joke, regardless of how well-behaved they are otherwise.

If anything, the better their behaviour in other respects, the more grating faults like swearing become on me.

Please understand I’m not trying to justify my friend’s behavior. I am simply saying that he is a good person overall, very much so, and takes his faith with a level of seriousness and contemplation that most my age simply don’t. Our conversation made him think. I could tell. No one is without their own personal faults. His sanctity and affection is a powerful aura hardly overridden by this one aspect of his humanness.

His language is usually spurious and unintentional, mild and private, and it does nothing to rob him of his numerous other merits.

I agree. Profanity is not sinful in and of itself. It can be inappropriate given the occasion and audience. I’ve heard priests curse.

Ha, ha. What you just said made me think of a Dominican Sister I once heard speak to our Youth group… But that’s a different story. Just last night, our Youth group was going through orientation for our mission trip. Our Youth minister, Ms. Patti, said in regards to something (maybe sexual, I can’t remember): “If there’s one thing that PISSES me off, it’s…” She is an incredibly, unbelievably godly woman. She is full of God’s joy, and even so, still said this very casually. Ms. Liliana, my friend’s mom, is saintly, a true mystic, and yet once when we “missed” our exit on the highway, she exclaimed the s-word very audibly. (It turns out we hadn’t missed the exit at all, she was mistaken.) Another devout woman I know in my parish, who claims me as her grandson in front of strangers because of my near-white hair, is from the North and uses “Oh, my God” (more like “ohmygod”) as a common exclamation, and one time “dear Mother of God.” But she does so in an oddly reverent and respectful way.

I cite all this to say that it’s unrealistic, I think, to judge someone’s spiritual well-being solely on the basis of their language.

I hate people that have to sprinkle every sentence with obscenity. I really do. At school I hear it a lot and so it’s not AS big a pet-peeve, but still it bugs the heck out of me. It just sounds low-class, like the person is doing it for shock appeal or something, or perhaps just doesn’t have anything more interesting to say. However, occasional outbursts I understand and sympathize with. Mild things used in a joking context every now and again, when it’s at no one’s expense, is excusable perhaps from my point of view. And even exclamations of “God” or “Mary,” when not done with irreverent intentions, doesn’t hit me the same as someone who stubs his toe shouting, “JESUSCHRIST!”

Maybe it’s just me… but I think I have the habit of distinguishing between, as Sister would say, “salty” language—and pure “filth.” Since I know this isn’t going to fare well, I should also add, as she did: “Not that I’m trying to justify either!”

 

[masterjedi747]

Maybe it’s just me… but I think I have the habit of distinguishing between, as Sister would say, “salty” language—and pure “filth.” Since I know this isn’t going to fare well, I should also add, as she did: “Not that I’m trying to justify either!”

For what it’s worth, I pretty much agree with everything you’ve said.

And, once again, I think these two CAF answers pretty much back you up:
Is profanity a mortal sin? and "Oh, My God?"

 

[rwoehmke]

My granddad was a lumberjack and he could swear a blue streak. My father also would sometimes swear in French. I never once heard them use a sexually connected obscenity. I learned to swear from them and did so several times in front of my mother. At age six she hauled off and whipped my bottom with a fabric belt from a dress. The swearing slowed, but never stopped except in the presence of girls and women. When I attended a Catholic College run and taught by an order composed mostly of priests, they told us not to worry about it on campus (all men) except when girls or parents were visiting. We did not use the F word or other sexually related obscenities, but what I would describe as crudities., sh**, pi**, and d**n, cr*p being among them. Once being married and therefore in the presence of wife and daughters often, I had to learn to curb my tongue. It drives me nuts today when I hear young girls talking what I call obscenities. Almost every other word. I don’t recall that we ever used those crudities to replace doggone near every part of speech in the English vocabulary. They were used as expletives.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

What’s the Problem with Profanity?

It does not give glory to God, hence, it is vain. Furthermore, it can cause scandal to others and incline them to sin.

 

[rpp]

It does not give glory to God, hence, it is vain. Furthermore, it can cause scandal to others and incline them to sin.

What he (she?) said!

 

[GraceDK]

My granddad was a lumberjack and he could swear a blue streak. My father also would sometimes swear in French. I never once heard them use a sexually connected obscenity. I learned to swear from them and did so several times in front of my mother. At age six she hauled off and whipped my bottom with a fabric belt from a dress. The swearing slowed, but never stopped except in the presence of girls and women. When I attended a Catholic College run and taught by an order composed mostly of priests, they told us not to worry about it on campus (all men) except when girls or parents were visiting. We did not use the F word or other sexually related obscenities, but what I would describe as crudities., sh**, pi**, and d**n, cr*p being among them. Once being married and therefore in the presence of wife and daughters often, I had to learn to curb my tongue. It drives me nuts today when I hear young girls talking what I call obscenities. Almost every other word. I don’t recall that we ever used those crudities to replace doggone near every part of speech in the English vocabulary. They were used as expletives.

I find this post really discouraging. You spend the time saying what a bunch of hypocrites you have been… taking foul words into your mouths except from in front of women… you don’t respect the Lord more than a woman? All you boys did this and even friars… and then in the end you suddenly go off at girls who talk bad? What, now you are the one to say at what degree bad turns bad?
This is just so hypocritical…

Either something is wrong and you don’t do it at any time at any place… or its okay and its okay for everyone at any time, okay?

Please say you agree… I really can’t understand what I am seeing here. I hope there is some misunderstanding.
We as women are expected to see the man as the spiritual head of the household and then when we are not around they say words that are not worthy of anyone who has been converted by Christ… What is going on?
And those frias… what ever title they have I do not care for titles… what they did was wrong.

But the truth has been said by Jesus Christ : **No one is good **but God.
I just wish people would stop trying to explain sin away and get down on their knees in repentance.

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

What he (she?) said!

He.

 

[masterjedi747]

Either something is wrong and you don’t do it at any time at any place… or its okay and its okay for everyone at any time, okay?

Nope. It’s okay to wear a bathing suit to the beach, but not to Mass.

The point he was making is that it’s not necessarily “wrong”, but it’s generally considered inappropriate to say certain things at certain times – such as at Church, at another formal event, or around women. That’s just common manners for many people.

 

[Caesar517]

Either something is wrong and you don’t do it at any time at any place… or its okay and its okay for everyone at any time, okay?

I don’t agree with this. Alcohol, for example. It’s ok to drink in most situations, but it would be innappropiate anound someone who was formerly an alcoholic.

What about watching TV? Again I would say that it is ok in most situations, but innappropiate for small children (although this is more of a parential decision).

What about something as extreme as taking a human life? It is ok if it is in self defense, but murder is not ok.

Any act that is morally neutral can be appropriate or not, depending on both the situitation and the intentions of the person doing it.

 

[masterjedi747]

It does not give glory to God, hence, it is vain.

I don’t even know how to respond to this, because I’m not exactly sure how it follows. Does eating your oatmeal, playing Monopoly, watching a television show give glory to God? Does that mean that these actions are “in vain”, and shouldn’t be done? All “in vain” means is “falling short of its intended end”. Eating my oatmeal nourishes me, and therefore accomplishes its end. Playing Monopoly and watching television provide entertainment, and therefore accomplish their respective ends. Using a “swear word” can express certain thoughts or emotions at appropriate times, and therefore accomplishes its purpose (and therefore is not in vain).

And PLEASE remember that we’re talking about using these words in their proper context – habitually spewing them out multiple times per sentence, however, IS a pointless (vain) use of those words, and NO ONE here is defending that.

Furthermore, it can cause scandal to others and incline them to sin.

Much more reasonable argument. But again, no one is arguing that these words can be properly used at any time; if it might cause scandal at certain times, or used around certain people, then you SHOULD have enough temperance to avoid using that sort of language around them.

Yet another CAF Apologetics question I found (in addition to the two I listed previously) which continues to back up everything I’ve been saying: Is this a bad word?

 

[onetimeposter]

Some people swear, some people don’t. I don’t worry about it either way.

So long as no one is being cursed out…like I said, I don’t worry about it.

 

[St_Aloysius]

Hmm… I think Father, the apologist, that is, made some excellent points. I think all of you did. I guess we each have our individual stances on this and need only to obey our respective consciences.

(By the way, Masterjedi747, I love Finding Darwin’s God! It encouraged me to pick up The Origin–and I even defended natural selection in class one time when a sub was trying to advocate Intelligent Design. Good stuff.)

 

[masterjedi747]

(By the way, Masterjedi747, I love Finding Darwin’s God! It encouraged me to pick up The Origin–and I even defended natural selection in class one time when a sub was trying to advocate Intelligent Design. Good stuff.)

Indeed.

 

[Cath_aholic]

I’m not sure if profanity is sinful or not, but it is at the top of my list of pet peeves. I admire people who don’t use profanity at all and find other words to express themselves instead. I really hate it when someone who usually doesn’t use profanity, uses it for some reason or another. It’s disappointing.

As far as using it when you hurt yourself or something…what ever happened to “OUCH!”? You could even say “GAAAAAHHH!!!” lol.

And to express shock or surprise I find “HOLY COW!” to be quite helpful. I don’t know, profanity seems unnecesary .

What do you guys think of substitutes though? Such as “freaking” or “dang” or “shoot”…things of that sort? Is it okay to use them because they don’t really mean anything?

 

[GraceDK]

I don’t agree with this. Alcohol, for example. It’s ok to drink in most situations, but it would be innappropiate anound someone who was formerly an alcoholic.

What about watching TV? Again I would say that it is ok in most situations, but innappropiate for small children (although this is more of a parential decision).

What about something as extreme as taking a human life? It is ok if it is in self defense, but murder is not ok.

Any act that is morally neutral can be appropriate or not, depending on both the situitation and the intentions of the person doing it.

This has been on my mind some time now. I really am dissapointed that some of my brothers and sisters here defend foul language.
If it was sinful to wear a swim suit then it would be sinful both at the beach and in Church. Just like its both sinful to get drunk at a bar and at home in front of your kids. Premarital sex is always a sin, even if you are two adults who take “full responsibility”.Self defence is not a sin. Murder is. Always. So is blasphemy and cursing and a foul language… It’s a sin against the holiness and purity of God as well as the Holy Spirit who dwells in us.

Examples. I was for a long time very active in an Evangelical group of prayer, worship and Bible study. One day a young Catholic man came and joined us. He had a foul language and probably did not think much of it. No one commented on it because he was an adult … however I bet there was no one in the room who did not recognize that this person had not taken a serious decision for Christ in his current way of talking. As for me, I was sad because he was there as a Catholic and he did not serve the church by his behaviour…
Among my Evangelical friends I never hear foul language. Not from men and not from women. And it matters. It matters greatly as a huge testimony to people around them. When I am in public places I too can tell a Christian friom a nonchristian by the way people talk on the bus etc.
We are called to live “kingdom-life” already now and here… do you think your foul language will enter heaven? would you say it in front of Jesus? do you think its humerous/funny if you stand infront of the Virgin Mary to say the s-word?
No… see the world will teach you one thing about humour. But the Church has completely other standards.

I once read about a mystic who sometimes let out a curse accidentally ( see the point here is not to be perfect but be honest enough to admit that one is not living according to the law of God in some areas and then strive to better one self.) I remember saying to my self: “I am a sinner, but I am happy I dont have this particular sin in my life. However Lord, please show me my sins for I am going to confession”. At that moment He overwhelmingly opened my eyes. He said: “You are exactly like this mystic… you use these words that hurt Me and they are so far from holiness… just because you dont swear you think you are alright…”
I broke down weeping… and I was so grateful because the Lord told me the truth so I could repent.

 

[Caesar517]

Grace, my point was that there are some actions which are morally neutral (i think most are).

I believe that profanty is morally neutral. Determining whether it is a sin or not requires examination of the speaker’s intentions and the surrounding atmosphere. If it is used in excess or to insult someone, then it would certainly be a sin. If not, then I don’t necessarily think it is.

The questions I ask myself here are: what seporates one word from another? What is the essence of a word? Why do we use words?

All words are combinations of simple sounds; nothing more. We use words to express ourselves. As such, words can carry enormous weight, but it’s only because of the meaning attached to them. If we use a word with one underlying meaning, it isn’t the same as using the same word with a different underlying meaning.

Take any profane word as an example. If we use that word, our underlying meaning might be insult. Our underlying meaning might instead be playfulness or comedy, though. The latter two are not always a sin. They have a time and a place.

Words themselves are insubstantial without the meaning behind them. That’s why I think you need to judge by the meaning the words carry, not the words themselves.

Of course, I’m not saying profanity is necessary. There nothing wrong with choosing not to use it. But I don’t see it as intrinsically evil.

 

[GraceDK]

Grace, my point was that there are some actions which are morally neutral (i think most are).

I believe that profanty is morally neutral. Determining whether it is a sin or not requires examination of the speaker’s intentions and the surrounding atmosphere. If it is used in excess or to insult someone, then it would certainly be a sin. If not, then I don’t necessarily think it is.

The questions I ask myself here are: what seporates one word from another? What is the essence of a word? Why do we use words?

All words are combinations of simple sounds; nothing more. We use words to express ourselves. As such, words can carry enormous weight, but it’s only because of the meaning attached to them. If we use a word with one underlying meaning, it isn’t the same as using the same word with a different underlying meaning.

Take any profane word as an example. If we use that word, our underlying meaning might be insult. Our underlying meaning might instead be playfulness or comedy, though. The latter two are not always a sin. They have a time and a place.

Words themselves are insubstantial without the meaning behind them. That’s why I think you need to judge by the meaning the words carry, not the words themselves.

Of course, I’m not saying profanity is necessary. There nothing wrong with choosing not to use it. But I don’t see it as intrinsically evil.

Okay… so what it comes down to is this.
You don’t see foul language as “intrinsically evil” whereas I do. I think the devil claps his hands when ever someone uses bad language, especially if its a Christian, because its so far from what we were created to do and to whom we were called to be in the image and likeness of God.
At the same time you make it a matter of intention only. I need not tell you that “good” or “neutral” intentions are also in play when we talk about homosexual acts, premarital sex, use of condoms, abortion etc.
Our intentions do not define right and wrong.
And we often need to be told … by parents and priests and teachers that what we thought was okay was not okay.

So, we have to agree to disagree. But thanks for the discussion.
God bless and peace,
Grace <><

 

[Nickkname]

I have a friend from a strong Catholic background. His mother is the most incredible person I’ve ever met: a true mystic. Raised atheist in Communist Poland and brought into the Church by her grandmother, she performed for the Great Pope John Paul II of blessed memory twice. She fosters an intense yet almost unintentional devotion to the holy Eucharist. God is never out of her heart or mind.

Their house is adorned in icons and crucifixes. Their interactions are telling of their strong familial bonds.

My friend was homeschooled from a young age. He and his brothers were left to develop into themselves free of many of the pressures kids like me faced. His mother, always artistic and full of pyschological insight, encouraged them to individuate in this way.

As a result, my friend is well-mannered, kind, humble, self-confident, fun, and always open.

When his brothers and I were playing Monopoly at his house one night then, it was much to my surprise–and amusement–to hear him exclaim, “Damn!” at an unfavorable roll. His quiet, calm demeanor and soft and melodic voice robbed the profanity of any sting or piercing. He offered a thousand apologies, all of which I rejected. It was a mild slip-up, and I thought for him to curse was something like a toddler to swear. He simply was, and is, too immaculate for me to really regard it as being any big incident.

The more I’ve gotten to know him, the more I’ve realized this is not merely a one-time thing. It’s ingrained. Perhaps from his mother. But, once more, I find it hard to penalize such godly people with what seems to be such a minor shortcoming. He always cuts himself short and apologizes.

He has only once, I think, used a serious profanity–and his contrition was sincere.

One night he asked me what the problem with it was. I had never scolded him for it. I only laughed and found it relieving that he too had faults–unbeknownst to me beforehand. It seemed no dent to his character.

He said he couldn’t understand why it was wrong to curse when it was not at anyone’s expense or done in a solely joking manner.

Even though I’d never gotten on to him about it, and in fact encouraged him to be himself around me, I stood up for purity of speech. I said it encouraged negativity in thought and was a sign of immaturity, spiritually and socially. I said this to demean the use of profanity, not to disown him–which I’m afraid it must necessarily have done. He asked why words mattered so much. “What’s the difference,” he said, “between stubbing your toe and saying, ‘cr*p!’ instead of… well, you know?” I said it wasn’t so much about the words but the intention and the reality they expressed. Hence why cursing in a different language isn’t taken as seriously to someone who doesn’t speak that particular language. It’s all about the underlying meaning. He smiled and said something very, very bad in Polish, which made him blush and his brothers go wild. I laughed too. He thought for a minute and repeated some of my arguments to himself… “Hmm… well…”

He seemed to agree on some level. I wasn’t feeling victorious, though. I honestly felt like a prude. Like the puritanical fundamentalist I, after converting to Catholicism, no longer had any desire to be.

I admit, I later compensated for this. It seemed no big deal and brought a smile to his face.

I guess I don’t want to fee like I’m reverting to fundamentalism. What’s the big deal about saying mild things now and again, in jest or in situations where no one is defaced? I guess I’m struggling to balance wholesomeness and fun.

Any thoughts?

Profanity is a sin. A venial sin, but a sin nevertheless. Sin must be avoided at all costs. It leads to hell. Besides, those who love God will avoid sin at all costs. They will not make excuses, but make resolutions - resolve to never sin again. Furthermore, the more venial sins one commits, the more one they have a lesser chance at heaven; venial sins are like pebbles, and many pebbles make a mountain, and a mountain is not light but heavy - so if your soul has a mountain, it will not fly to heaven but fall to hell. Finally, no matter who or what anyone is, if you see someone sinning, you must correct them. It is a work of mercy.

 

[GraceDK]

Profanity is a sin. A venial sin, but a sin nevertheless. Sin must be avoided at all costs. It leads to hell. Besides, those who love God will avoid sin at all costs. They will not make excuses, but make resolutions - resolve to never sin again. Furthermore, the more venial sins one commits, the more one they have a lesser chance at heaven; venial sins are like pebbles, and many pebbles make a mountain, and a mountain is not light but heavy - so if your soul has a mountain, it will not fly to heaven but fall to hell. Finally, no matter who or what anyone is, if you see someone sinning, you must correct them. It is a work of mercy.

Thank you for the clarity of this post. It really does damage to the Church when its members cant see that they are sinning. We all know that the way we behave is very important to whether people around us find us credible as witnesses for Christ… and ultimately if they find the Church and the Christian message convincing. If people are not transformed by the Truth they proclaim but keep living like they did when they were dead in their sins then there is no testimony. Language, because its so visible, is the first thing that changes in new converts to Christianity.

Many people have a longing in them when they see a nun or monk dressed in white. Something in them longs for the purity and peace that these clothes symbolice… they dont long for that person… they long for the the Lord…the Beauty that is missing. How does it sound when this religious opens her/his mouth and bad language comes out? We call ourselves the Church, the New Jerusalem, … we are called to be the salt of the earth …the light in the darkness. Bad language is the symptom of a much deeper problem within the soul. This problem must be adressed by the Church first of all… I am talking about bringing about a real meeting with the Risen Christ followed by a true metanoia.

 

[LilyM]

I don’t even know how to respond to this, because I’m not exactly sure how it follows. Does eating your oatmeal, playing Monopoly, watching a television show give glory to God? Does that mean that these actions are “in vain”, and shouldn’t be done? All “in vain” means is “falling short of its intended end”. Eating my oatmeal nourishes me, and therefore accomplishes its end. Playing Monopoly and watching television provide entertainment, and therefore accomplish their respective ends. Using a “swear word” can express certain thoughts or emotions at appropriate times, and therefore accomplishes its purpose (and therefore is not in vain).

“Whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.” 1 Corinthians 10:31

So it’s certainly possible to eat, play Monopoly etc - and do it all to God’s glory. St Paul says so. Because when you’re doing good and wholesome things and living a good life in a manner that God intends - that in and of itself gives glory to Him.

Swearing is never good and wholesome and it’s never something that God intends you to do. It’s never something that can be done to His glory, unlike the other stuff you’ve mentioned.

It’s not something that God intends for you to do or is ever appropriate. It isn’t because there are other options available that aren’t abuses of God’s gift of speech and language.

Seriously, what cave do you live in that you think foul language, which is a serious misuse of the gift of speech, is EVER appropriate or ever anything less than a venial sin?