Who is God's chosen people?

[judynurse]

I think you are pulling several legs here and trying to maintain an intellectual argument without limits. We were originally answering someone else’s question as to whether the Jews were the “Chosen People”. Yes, they are, and still are. The Christians are also “chosen”, as followers of Christ under the New Covenant. No, you can’t “sign on the dotted line” for either covenant and remain Hindu. As a Hindu, you follow a multitude of gods, including belief in reincarnation. As a Jew or Christian, we believe we have only one life and “after that, the Judgment”. There are no “Brahmin”, no chosen by birth alone in the New Covenant. Only the chosen by CHOICE and FAITH. It is then necessary to LIVE according to that choice. You can’t just sign on the dotted line and be guaranteed a place in Heaven. First you must follow the Faith, live out the requirements of the Faith, and most importantly BELIEVE IN THE SON OF GOD. All other gods must be renounced in order to follow Jesus.

Now which leg do you want to pull?

 

[Kliska]

I think you have created a new definition:

Christians and Jews are together the Chosen People of God. Jews by the Old Contract and Christians by the New Contract.

I could become one of the ‘Chosen’ by converting to either religion.

However, the New Contract is preferable to the Old Contract which very likely is not valid any more.(If the Old Contract is still valid than your evangelical statement would be: Come to either Christianity or Judaism and be saved!)

Does that summarize your position?

Pretty much. The key is always what the contract (Covenant) states, and what you are willing to do on your side of the contract in order to fulfill it. To be completely clear, obviously there are two camps in this conversation; The Jews (who practice Judaism) and the Christians (who practice Christianity). At this moment in history you CAN indeed convert to either camp. As a Christian, I would urge you to accept the New Covenant, as it is described as a better covenant, and once hearing of the old and new, it is obviously Christian belief to accept the new.

Part of the interest is looking at God’s relationship with man through the lens of each covenant. With the old, man was expected to follow certain commands, and a sacrifice was required when those commands were broken, or even just as a part of the commands. With the new, man is expected to place their faith on the fact that Jesus was Messiah and the once and for all sacrifice for all sin. We tap into the grace of God via faith on the Son (Who is the Second Person of the Trinity and is fully God and fully Man), the sacrifice, resurrection, etc… Under the new, then, we can truly call God our Father. In short, God’s Justice and Mercy meet a the cross, it was a game-changer.

Now, if you are asking if you can be a religious practicing Hindu (with belief in Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva for example) and also be a part of one of the covenants the answer would be no. As with any contract there are conditions to be met on your side too.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

Because each religion has its own view of what and who the “chosen people” are, this argument could go on indefinitely and never get anywhere.

Catholics do indeed believe that God accepts anyone who does his will to the best of their knowledge and conscientious convictions who does not at the same time deliberately refuse to accept the Gospel she offers.

In addition, the Pontifical Biblical Commission states in “The Jewish People and Their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible”:

In the past, the break between the Jewish people and the Church of Christ Jesus could sometimes, in certain times and places, give the impression of being complete. In the light of the Scriptures, this should never have occurred. For a complete break between Church and Synagogue contradicts Sacred Scripture.

The term “chosen people” as understood by the Roman Catholic Church means the Jewish people, and by extension through Christ, the Gentiles who accept the Gospel of the Messiah.

Some of the teachings of religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, and the Baha’i Faith share some of these understandings or facets thereof, and the Church never rejects anything that is true.

Where a religion teaches that it supersedes, replaces, improves upon, or somehow adds to the revelation of Christ accepted by the Church, these beliefs are irreconcilable with teachings of Christ as revealed to the Church.

Who make up God’s chosen people? If the choice of people’s is God’s, then are we not all in agreement that God has the final say? Where denominational lines or arguments cannot be crossed or solved, God can do what humans cannot and/or will not accomplish. “All things are possible with God.”–Mark 10:27.

 

[judynurse]

Excellent answer DelsonJacobs!!

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!!

FELIZ NAVIDAD!!

:christmastree1: :christmastree1: :christmastree1: :christmastree1: :christmastree1:

 

[openmind77]

Because each religion has its own view of what and who the “chosen people” are, this argument could go on indefinitely and never get anywhere.

Catholics do indeed believe that God accepts anyone who does his will to the best of their knowledge and conscientious convictions who does not at the same time deliberately refuse to accept the Gospel she offers.

In addition, the Pontifical Biblical Commission states in “The Jewish People and Their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible”:

In the past, the break between the Jewish people and the Church of Christ Jesus could sometimes, in certain times and places, give the impression of being complete. In the light of the Scriptures, this should never have occurred. For a complete break between Church and Synagogue contradicts Sacred Scripture.

The term “chosen people” as understood by the Roman Catholic Church means the Jewish people, and by extension through Christ, the Gentiles who accept the Gospel of the Messiah.

Some of the teachings of religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, and the Baha’i Faith share some of these understandings or facets thereof, and the Church never rejects anything that is true.

Where a religion teaches that it supersedes, replaces, improves upon, or somehow adds to the revelation of Christ accepted by the Church, these beliefs are irreconcilable with teachings of Christ as revealed to the Church.

Who make up God’s chosen people? If the choice of people’s is God’s, then are we not all in agreement that God has the final say? Where denominational lines or arguments cannot be crossed or solved, God can do what humans cannot and/or will not accomplish. “All things are possible with God.”–Mark 10:27.

As long as it is not based on race, I don’t see a problem here.

Race is a very offensive basis to determine ‘God’s People’.

As long as any Asian (from China or Laos) can be become one of the ‘Chosen People’ merely by converting to Judaism then that is fine. But this clearly means we are talking about a ‘Chosen Religion’ rather than a ‘people’.

But I see from several posts that Christians also are the ‘Chosen People’ because they accept the Christ.

The problem is that since most Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah, shouldn’t their ‘chosenness’ be withdrawn now (at least by Christians)?

Or is it once chosen, always chosen - some kind of grandfather clause?

I personally would say that all Jews born after Jesus’s ministry should be considered no longer the ‘Chosen’ (by Christians), because they have rejected Jesus.

Jews can of course, continue to say they are the ‘Chosen Ones’ and that Christians are definitely not the Chosen.

 

[Kliska]

As long as it is not based on race, I don’t see a problem here.

Race is a very offensive basis to determine ‘God’s People’.

As long as any Asian (from China or Laos) can be become one of the ‘Chosen People’ merely by converting to Judaism then that is fine. But this clearly means we are talking about a ‘Chosen Religion’ rather than a ‘people’.

But I see from several posts that Christians also are the ‘Chosen People’ because they accept the Christ.

The problem is that since most Jews do not accept Jesus as the Messiah, shouldn’t their ‘chosenness’ be withdrawn now (at least by Christians)?

Or is it once chosen, always chosen - some kind of grandfather clause?

I personally would say that all Jews born after Jesus’s ministry should be considered no longer the ‘Chosen’ (by Christians), because they have rejected Jesus.

Jews can of course, continue to say they are the ‘Chosen Ones’ and that Christians are definitely not the Chosen.

It’s going to depend on which Christian you talk to. According to my brand of Protestant thought, God still has promises to keep to the Jewish people, and He will keep them. Right now, we are in the Church age, but that age will end, and God will resume a more direct relationship with Israel.

 

[daler]

I know God chose the people of Israel as His people. I know it’s not exactly that way anymore I’m just confused as to who are His people today.

Does that make sense? I want to know more about this. I don’t understand it.

. The real question may be: Chosen for “What?”

. What is the role of the Jewish people in Israel today, now that they have returned, as had been prophesied so distinctly throughout the Old Testament?

.

 

[Croc]

God did make a Covenant with Israel – a “binding contract” with both promises of good and promises of punishment for not following Him. Jesus came to fulfill the Law (the Torah or “Bible” of the Jews) and the writings of the Prophets. Most Jews refused to accept Him, although a few thousand did so. Their promise of punishment was the destruction of Israel and the Diaspora from about 20 - 30 years after the death & resurrection of Jesus until 1948 in the 20th century. He still has a Covenant with them, and they are still the “Chosen out of the nations”, but have been disobedient. He will eventually complete the Covenant with them, bringing many to Jesus and belief in His true Messiah (according to prophecy and the Book of Revelations). However, we are ALSO the “Chosen of Christ”, His children, brothers & sisters, His disciples, and we also have His promises of both good and punishment for either following Him or rejecting or disobeying what He taught us to do.

So, the correct answer to this question is: both the Jews and the Believers and followers of Christ are the “chosen” of God, but in different ways and with different paths to follow. Jews are still the “People of the (old) Covenant” while we are the “People of the New Covenant” through Christ. By giving us His new Commandments “love one another as I have loved you” and the institution of the Eucharist at the Last Supper by which we receive His true Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, we are bound by this New Covenant of Christ. It is up to us to follow Him and obey His New Covenant of love and Eucharist.

I’m not a theologian, but this is how I basically understand it.

I concur with you on 99%.
In the New Covenant of Jesus Christ, the commonwealth of “God’s chosen people” is widened. If an Israelite rejects Jesus, despite him being from the chosen race, he forfeits the privilege of being called ‘God’s chosen people’.

 

[openmind77]

It’s going to depend on which Christian you talk to. According to my brand of Protestant thought, God still has promises to keep to the Jewish people, and He will keep them. Right now, we are in the Church age, but that age will end, and God will resume a more direct relationship with Israel.

Then your message to non-Christians like me is quite ambiguous.

Are you saying come to Jesus and be saved or go to Judaism and be Chosen to have a direct relationship with God?

I am assuming of course that God will save all those who are Chosen also? I mean imagine a God who Chooses a people to serve (or whatever) and then does not save them!

I think I would rather become a Jew and get those promises kept (and no original sin to boot).

 

[Kaninchen]

Then your message to non-Christians like me is quite ambiguous.

Are you saying come to Jesus and be saved or go to Judaism and be Chosen to have a direct relationship with God?

I am assuming of course that God will save all those who are Chosen also? I mean imagine a God who Chooses a people to serve (or whatever) and then does not save them!

I think I would rather become a Jew and get those promises kept (and no original sin to boot).

You’re dealing with entirely different concepts of ‘saved’ (from what?), of course.

 

[Kliska]

Then your message to non-Christians like me is quite ambiguous.

Are you saying come to Jesus and be saved or go to Judaism and be Chosen to have a direct relationship with God?

I am assuming of course that God will save all those who are Chosen also? I mean imagine a God who Chooses a people to serve (or whatever) and then does not save them!

I think I would rather become a Jew and get those promises kept (and no original sin to boot).

Not ambiguous at all; you need Jesus as Saviour, In the church age (now) God is working directly with the church, and anyone who comes to Him is part of the body of Christ, and the only group to truly call God “Our Father” and mean it in a literal adoptive sense. The Israelites to whom the promises will be kept in the future will be recognizing Him as Messiah. If you die before then you’re not going to be in a good spot.

God will save them as a people group at a future point, but not necessarily as individuals, there are still requirements to be met by individuals. The relationship of the Israelites to God is a different relationship than the Christians to God.

 

[Tom_Baum]

I am not sure I understand the difference between a people and a race. What sets them apart as a people, just their religion not their race or is it language?

I would say that if anyone claims they were chosen by God, they are claiming to be special.

It is also saying that God discriminates on the basis of a ‘people’ or a ‘language’?

Basically, I would say that it is the “covenant” with God that sets the Jews apart, people of any race can be a Jew.

I have been chosen by God and as far as being “special”, we are all special to God, being chosen doesn’t make anyone more special than they already are, just chosen, sometimes for a very specific “job”, for lack of a better word to phrase it.

You can look at it as God discriminating, I look at it as God is God and we ain’t.

 

[JoJoWasAMan]

I know God chose the people of Israel as His people. I know it’s not exactly that way anymore I’m just confused as to who are His people today.

Does that make sense? I want to know more about this. I don’t understand it.

Spiritual, Mystical Israel, is God’s Chosen People. Not the Jews, nor the Catholics, nor the Christians, nor the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Scripture refers to “so-called Jews who are not Jews at all, but frauds.” (Revelation, the letter to Philadelphia) This implies that there are true Jews who are not frauds, and it is these who are the True Spiritual Israel.

It is all those who love. All, who accept love, the giving and the receiving of love, are God’s Chosen People. All those who reject love with finality are in hell, even if they are still walking around on earth.

God is Love.

 

[Tom_Baum]

This the precise belief that I am questioning. You believe in it because the Old Testament says so, but I find OT rather difficult swallow. The OT is a book of violence and hatred and I do not believe for an instant that it is in any way the word of God.

All I can say is that the Jews have been around awhile and they point to the Torah and other writings.

The New Testament flows from the Old Testament and Jesus, God-Incarnate, was born a Jew, lived as a Jew and died a Jew.

As you noted, what is referred to as the Old Testament is not sugar-coated.

As far as “violence and hatred”, the world today is filled with violence and hatred also, is it not?

 

[Tom_Baum]

I concur with you on 99%.
In the New Covenant of Jesus Christ, the commonwealth of “God’s chosen people” is widened. If an Israelite rejects Jesus, despite him being from the chosen race, he forfeits the privilege of being called ‘God’s chosen people’.

Since God Is God and you’re not, it is up to God, not you.

By the way, the Jews are a People, not a race.

A little sidebar, Jesus never became a Christian, He was born a Jew, lived as a Jew and died a Jew.

 

[Tom_Baum]

Spiritual, Mystical Israel, is God’s Chosen People. Not the Jews, nor the Catholics, nor the Christians, nor the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Scripture refers to “so-called Jews who are not Jews at all, but frauds.” (Revelation, the letter to Philadelphia) This implies that there are true Jews who are not frauds, and it is these who are the True Spiritual Israel.

It is all those who love. All, who accept love, the giving and the receiving of love, are God’s Chosen People. All those who reject love with finality are in hell, even if they are still walking around on earth.

God is Love.

God Is indeed LOVE, as in Love Is God’s Very Being, Love is not an attribute of God.

Love conquers ALL, even the unloving.

God has had a Plan since before creation and God’s Plan, which is catholic, will come to Fruition.

Merry Christmas to ALL and as the Angels proclaimed:

"“Do not be afraid; for behold, I proclaim to you good news of great joy that will be for all the people. For today in the city of David a savior has been born for you who is Messiah and Lord. And this will be a sign for you: you will find an infant wrapped in swaddling clothes and lying in a manger.”

and

“Glory to God in the highest and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.”

Two separate messages, both true.

One speaks of “good news of great joy that will be for all the people” and the other “peace to those on whom his favor rests”.

Quite a few seem to smash these two messages together to make one whereas they are two separate messages, one to “ALL” and the other to “whom his favor rests”.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

Spiritual, Mystical Israel, is God’s Chosen People. Not the Jews, nor the Catholics, nor the Christians, nor the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Scripture refers to “so-called Jews who are not Jews at all, but frauds.” (Revelation, the letter to Philadelphia) This implies that there are true Jews who are not frauds, and it is these who are the True Spiritual Israel.

It is all those who love. All, who accept love, the giving and the receiving of love, are God’s Chosen People. All those who reject love with finality are in hell, even if they are still walking around on earth.

God is Love.

A note should be made here.

On the basis of the Catholic Church’s teaching in “The Jewish People and Their Sacred Scriptures in the Christian Bible,” published by the Pontifical Biblical Commission, such an interpretation is not a part of Roman Catholic theology.

The above interpretation has a long anti-Semitic history which the Church, as recently as Pope Francis, strongly condemns.

As “The Jewish People and Their Sacred Scriptures” explains:

Regarding the “so-called Jews” mentioned in two parallel passages (2:9 and 3:9), the author rejects their pretensions and calls them a “synagogue of Satan”. In 2:9, these “so-called Jews” are accused of defaming the Christian community of Smyrna. In 3:9, Christ announces that they will be compelled to pay homage to the Christians of Philadelphia. These passages suggest that Christians are denying the title of Jew to the Israelites who defame them, and range themselves on the side of Satan, “the accuser of our brothers” (Rv 12:10). There is a then positive appreciation of “Jew” as a title of honour, an honour that is denied to a synagogue which is actively hostile to Christians.

They are not in reference to the Jews at large to a persecuting group that was not acting like Jews and not adhering to strict purity laws that even Jewish-Christians still observed. --See The Jewish Annotated New Testament, NRSV, “So Called Jews and Their Synagogues of Satan,” Amy-Jill Levine and Marc Zvi Brettler, Editors, Oxford Press.

 

[DelsonJacobs]

It was brought to my attention that there was an error in my last post. Since it was too late to directly edit it, here is the correction.

The last paragraph should read:

They are not in reference to the Jews at large but likely to a persecuting group that was not acting like Jews and not adhering to strict purity laws that even Jewish-Christians still observed. --See The Jewish Annotated New Testament, NRSV, “So Called Jews and Their Synagogues of Satan,” Amy-Jill Levine and Marc Zvi Brettler, Editors, Oxford Press.

 

[tonyfish58]

I know God chose the people of Israel as His people. I know it’s not exactly that way anymore I’m just confused as to who are His people today.

Does that make sense? I want to know more about this. I don’t understand it.

Interesting - The Original Poster does not seem to be part of the Conversation

Have you had your question clarified, is there other questions raised?

Regards Tony

 

[openmind77]

You’re dealing with entirely different concepts of ‘saved’ (from what?), of course.

Saved from ‘what’? You haven’t been following Christian preaching?

At least if you are on these forums, you should know what ‘saved’ means.

Anyway, basically all of us non-Christians are condemned to hell if you don’t accept Jesus as the Savior (unless we are invincibly ignorant).

However, I think Jews are exceptions because they are the ‘Chosen’ - you will be saved (ie allowed into heaven) because you are one of the ‘Chosen’ ones (of course only after the proper judgement and repentance of your sins)