Who was the first Christian?

[Dokimas]

James was the local Bishop. Peter was the Pope. (John 21:15-19)

Those verses don’t make Peter a pope. Pastors are supposed to feed the sheep.

Eze 34:10 ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them.”

 

[jmcrae]

Those verses don’t make Peter a pope. Pastors are supposed to feed the sheep.

They are appointed by Bishops, who are in turn appointed by the Pope. Peter was the first Shepherd of the Church, shepherding not only the common people, but also his brethren the other Apostles, just as the Pope shepherds not only the common people, but also the Bishops.

Eze 34:10 ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My flock at their hand; I will cause them to cease feeding the sheep, and the shepherds shall feed themselves no more; for I will deliver My flock from their mouths, that they may no longer be food for them.”

Truly it is an awesome responsibility. But Jesus did not appoint Peter for the purpose of condemning him. These verses in Ezekiel are referring to those Levites who abdicated their responsibilities and told the people to figure things out all by themselves.

 

[rev_kevin]

Of course she knew! How could she not know??!! Show me evidence in Scripture that Mary thought she was getting pregnant in the normal way, or that she thought the child inside her was an ordinary baby?

I never said that she didn’t know that the child inside her was a ordinary baby, nor did I say that she got pregnant the normal way. Luke 1:26-38 says, …God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazaretah, a village in Galilee, to a virgin named Mary. She was engaged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of King David. Gabriel appeared to her and said, Greetings, favored woman! The Lord is with you!..Don’t be frightened Mary…for God has decided to bless you! You will become pregant and have a son, and you are to name him Jesus. He will be very great and will be called the Son of the Most High…Mary asked the angel, But how can I have a baby? I am a virgin. The angel replied The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the baby born to you will be Holy, and he will be called the Son of God…Mary responded I am the Lord’s servant and I am willing to accept whatever he wants. May everything you have said come true… Re-read the question. I said show me evidence that Mary knew that Jesus was God. Now did you read anywhere that Mary knew Jesus was God, The angel didn’t say he was. It was not mentioned that Jesus was God when he was born. When Jesus was, in the temple at the age of 12 he told Mary that he was doing his Fathers work. When Jesus was baptized the voice of God came down and said you are my beloved Son, and I am fully pleased with you. I see no evidence that Mary or anyone eles knew that Jesus was God. Now Elizabeth did mention that the mother of my Lord should visit me. The word Lord has several meanings
Lord Hebrew- Jehovah found in Ex.6:3 Ps.83:18 Isa.12:2, 26:4
Lord Hebrew 'adon denotes a master. Old plural form of this Hebrew word is 'adonai reverence for the name Jehovah.
Lord Greek kurius meaning supreme master
Lord Hebrew Ba’al a master, as having domination
Lord Hebrew seren applied exclusively to the lords of the Philistines.
I also see no evidence that Elizabeth knew that Jesus was God. In otherwords she may have meant the mother of my master, 'adon. or the mother of my kurius, the mother of my Ba’al, master. Once again, after 4 time the same question can you answer mine like I did yours.

Jesus is God (that’s what He is made of) but He is not the Father, nor the Holy Spirit. the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are three Persons, all made of the same substance - God.

I’m getting off the substance thing because it don’t have anything to do with the subject.

Right. Just exactly as God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are three distinctly separate Persons, but all the same God.

I never disputed that they are 3 separate persons. Now can we stick to the subject.

 

[jmcrae]

I never disputed that they are 3 separate persons. Now can we stick to the subject.

Mary knew that the Holy Spirit (God) had caused her to become pregnant. Therefore, she knew that the child she was bearing was of the substance of God.

 

[rev_kevin]

Mary knew that the Holy Spirit (God) had caused her to become pregnant. Therefore, she knew that the child she was bearing was of the substance of God.

Well I see that you can’t show evidence to you claim. You can not show me in the Bible to back up what you are saying. All you are saying is nothing but the same thing over and over again. Substance, she knew, but you can’t back up what you say. This is the last time I will ask you. Show me evidence in the Bible that Mary knew that Jesus was God.
I’m getting tired of your lack of evidence and/or education on this subject.

 

[jmcrae]

Well I see that you can’t show evidence to you claim. You can not show me in the Bible to back up what you are saying. All you are saying is nothing but the same thing over and over again. Substance, she knew, but you can’t back up what you say. This is the last time I will ask you. Show me evidence in the Bible that Mary knew that Jesus was God.
I’m getting tired of your lack of evidence and/or education on this subject.

Others have given the Scripture verses; I didn’t see the need to repeat their work.

Do you really think that Mary was so baffled and stupid that she could call her son LORD without realizing at the same time that He was God?

 

[Bill_Pick]

Well I see that you can’t show evidence to you claim. You can not show me in the Bible to back up what you are saying. All you are saying is nothing but the same thing over and over again. Substance, she knew, but you can’t back up what you say. This is the last time I will ask you. Show me evidence in the Bible that Mary knew that Jesus was God.
I’m getting tired of your lack of evidence and/or education on this subject.

Look at verse Luke 1:35

 

[rev_kevin]

Look at verse Luke 1:35

Hi Bill. Yes I wrote it in post 69 but sorry I don’t see the connection.

 

[rev_kevin]

Others have given the Scripture verses; I didn’t see the need to repeat their work.

Do you really think that Mary was so baffled and stupid that she could call her son LORD without realizing at the same time that He was God?

Nice talking to you. But you have not given me any evidence to back you statement up, so I’m not going to waste my time with you anymore. God bless
For the record I never said that Mary was baffled and stupid, Don’t put words in my mouth. Although the Bible in Luke 1:29 says that she was confused and disturbed. I see you can’t back up your words with Scripture verses and try to put it off on other people, by saying that others have given the Scripture verses and I didn’t see the need to repeat their work. Thats the cowards way out.

 

[jmcrae]

Nice talking to you. But you have not given me any evidence to back you statement up, so I’m not going to waste my time with you anymore. God bless
For the record I never said that Mary was baffled and stupid, Don’t put words in my mouth. Although the Bible in Luke 1:29 says that she was confused and disturbed.

And then the Angel explained it to her, and then she wasn’t confused any more - she said I AM THE HANDMAID OF THE LORD. BE IT DONE TO ME ACCORDING TO THY WILL.

I see you can’t back up your words with Scripture verses and try to put it off on other people, by saying that others have given the Scripture verses and I didn’t see the need to repeat their work. Thats the cowards way out.

If you would read the whole thread, instead of only coming after me, you would have already seen all of the arguments in Mary’s favor. It’s not my fault that you haven’t done this.

 

[rev_kevin]

And then the Angel explained it to her, and then she wasn’t confused any more - she said I AM THE HANDMAID OF THE LORD. BE IT DONE TO ME ACCORDING TO THY WILL.

If you would read the whole thread, instead of only coming after me, you would have already seen all of the arguments in Mary’s favor. It’s not my fault that you haven’t done this.

Then if thats the case why didn’t you say that in the begining. I have asked you several times but you never said anything. Why? There are only 2 postes that say any verses about Mary and they are #75 and #87. If you would have read my postes I believe I stated that she said that “I am the Lord’s servant, and I am willing to accept whatever he wants. May everything you have said come true.” So you are repeating what I have already said. God Bless.

 

[Xavierlives]

Then if thats the case why didn’t you say that in the begining. I have asked you several times but you never said anything. Why? There are only 2 postes that say any verses about Mary and they are #75 and #87. If you would have read my postes I believe I stated that she said that “I am the Lord’s servant, and I am willing to accept whatever he wants. May everything you have said come true.” So you are repeating what I have already said. God Bless.

Grrr… and this was a thread about something fun and now it has been hijacked.

 

[Benadam]

Then if thats the case why didn’t you say that in the begining. I have asked you several times but you never said anything. Why? There are only 2 postes that say any verses about Mary and they are #75 and #87. If you would have read my postes I believe I stated that she said that “I am the Lord’s servant, and I am willing to accept whatever he wants. May everything you have said come true.” So you are repeating what I have already said. God Bless.

You haven’t provided any evidence that Mary didn’t know Jesus is God. For her the Incarnation wasn’t a matter of faith and that’s very strong evidence that it was something she pondered from the beginning and at some point before anyone else could know, she knew. I would venture to guess it was after Jesus was twelve but before the wedding at Cana.

 

[rev_kevin]

You haven’t provided any evidence that Mary didn’t know Jesus is God. For her the Incarnation wasn’t a matter of faith and that’s very strong evidence that it was something she pondered from the beginning and at some point before anyone else could know, she knew. I would venture to guess it was after Jesus was twelve but before the wedding at Cana.

Yes I have. If you read my posts you will see that I have given evidence from the Bible that she knew that Jesus was the Son of God but not God Himself. No one has given me evidence to cntradict what I have stated.
If you can point ot me in the Bible where it says that she did know that Jesus was God I would be pleased, but to this date no one has. If you read my posts I did say that Mary didn’t know that Jesus was God at the conception, at his birth and at the age of 12. I find nowhere in the Bible where is says that she did know Jesus was God. She knew he came from God and that he was the Son of God but not God Himself. I went through Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and I did not find that Mary knew that he was God.
As far as the wedding at Cana Mary did ask Jesus with the wine. Mary knew Jesus was special and the Son of God but even this is no proof that She knew He was God. Show me somewhere in the Bible that says Mary knew Jesus was God. You say you would venture to quess she knew after his age of 12 but before the wedding. Show me the evidence and not what you guess.

 

[rev_kevin]

Grrr… and this was a thread about something fun and now it has been hijacked.

Why is it that when things get heavy its always meant to be fun.
Well I didn’t start this “hijack” as you put it. Here’s the breakdown.
Post 45 I respond to original post without Mary
Post 46 jmcrae responded to my post 45 with Mary
Post 47 Dokimas responded to post 46 jmcrae questioning Mary
Post 48 Benadam responded to post 47
Post 49 2nd adam responded to post 45
Post 50 bendecida mentioned Mary
Post 52 bill pick responded to post 47
Post 53 dokimas responded to post 52
Post 60 is my first responce to post 46
Post 69 jmcrae responded to my post 60
Post 72 I responded to and asked jmcrae to show me evidence
Post 74 jmcrae responded to my post 72
Post 75 whm responded to my post 72
Post 78 I resopnded to post 74 jmcrae
Post 80 jmcrae responded to my post 78
Post 83 I responded to post 80 jmcrae
Post 84 jmrcae responded to my post 83
Post 85 I responded to post 84 jmcrae
Post 86 jmcrae responded to my post 85
Post 87 bill pick responded to my post 85
Post 88 I responded to post 87
Post 89 I responded to post 86 jmcrae
Post 90 jmcrae responded to my post 89
Post 91 I responded to post 90 jmcrae
Post 92 you responded to my post 91 about hijack
Post 93 benadam responded to my post 91
Post 94 I responded to post 93 benadam
and this is post 95 my responce to your post 92
As you can see I did not start the hijack thing but it seems that I am to blame for it. I made no mention of Mary in my original post all I did was to ask jmcrae to show me evidence of his claim.

 

[Benadam]

Yes I have. If you read my posts you will see that I have given evidence from the Bible that she knew that Jesus was the Son of God but not God Himself. No one has given me evidence to cntradict what I have stated.
If you can point ot me in the Bible where it says that she did know that Jesus was God I would be pleased, but to this date no one has. If you read my posts I did say that Mary didn’t know that Jesus was God at the conception, at his birth and at the age of 12. I find nowhere in the Bible where is says that she did know Jesus was God. She knew he came from God and that he was the Son of God but not God Himself. I went through Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and I did not find that Mary knew that he was God.
As far as the wedding at Cana Mary did ask Jesus with the wine. Mary knew Jesus was special and the Son of God but even this is no proof that She knew He was God. Show me somewhere in the Bible that says Mary knew Jesus was God. You say you would venture to quess she knew after his age of 12 but before the wedding. Show me the evidence and not what you guess.

You present evidence of what Mary knows. Good, and I agree she knew her son in those ways. Who say’s it has to be so obvious to be true? No where does it say that Jesus knew He was God either. Does that mean it isn’t true? If that’s the litmus test you require to believe ,why the bias? Do you believe Jesus knew He was God? He never said that He knew He was God. We support that belief with other evidence. Just as we have supported the belief that Mary knew. As an example; why did tghe Angel call Jesus 'the Son of God? Mary had never heard anyone called that. If the seed of her divine son’s magesty were not meant to be planted or if not true, the angel would have to say a son of God like every other reference to God’s sons in the bible.

What scripture can you show me that explicitly reveals that Mary definitely didn’t know Jesus is God?

BTW I was hoping you might consider the two events I mentioned. I’m thinking they are events that mark the time when Mary began to understand what she had only pondered before and when she knew with all her heart her son is God.

When he was found by Joseph and Mary discussing with the doctors of the Jewish faith and when she asked Him to provide wine for the wedding at Cana.

Maybe another thread.

 

[rev_kevin]

You present evidence of what Mary knows. Good, and I agree she knew her son in those ways. Who say’s it has to be so obvious to be true? No where does it say that Jesus knew He was God either. Does that mean it isn’t true? If that’s the litmus test you require to believe ,why the bias? Do you believe Jesus knew He was God? He never said that He knew He was God. We support that belief with other evidence. Just as we have supported the belief that Mary knew. As an example; why did tghe Angel call Jesus 'the Son of God? Mary had never heard anyone called that. If the seed of her divine son’s magesty were not meant to be planted or if not true, the angel would have to say a son of God like every other reference to God’s sons in the bible

Yes I believe Jesus knew he was God
Why use the phrase “the Son of God” and not “a Son of God.” The word THE in this statement means one.The word A in this statement means more than one. Example: If some one says this is the son of whoever, means his or her only son. If some one says this is a son of whoever, means he or she has more then one son.
I have not seen Jesus referred as a son of God. John 3 18 says, the only Son of God.
John 5: 25 says, the voice of the Son of God.

Jesus knew he was God. When Jesus was being tempted by Satan Jesus said, “Do not test the Lord your God.”
John 10:30 says “The Father and I are one.”
This shows that Jesus knew he was God.

What scripture can you show me that explicitly reveals that Mary definitely didn’t know Jesus is God?

I already did.

BTW I was hoping you might consider the two events I mentioned. I’m thinking they are events that mark the time when Mary began to understand what she had only pondered before and when she knew with all her heart her son is God.

When he was found by Joseph and Mary discussing with the doctors of the Jewish faith and when she asked Him to provide wine for the wedding at Cana.

I asked to show me in the Bible where it says that Mary knew Jesus was God. But you answered a question with questions.
I have given you evidence that Jesus knew he was God. John 10:30
Now give me evidence that Mary knew the Jesus was God.

Maybe another thread.

 

[Benadam]

Jesus telling the devil to not tempt the Lord is not Jesus explicitely saying he is God. Not by a stretch rev. Not that I don’t see the same thing. The temptation failed and Jesus telling Satan that it failed because He shalt not tempt Him the Lord. But that is no more explicit than elixabeth calling Mary the mother of her Lord.

Also the wedding at Cana unfolds in a way that demonstrates that Jesus and Mary had discussed His resurrection. John begins …on the third day there was a wedding…and Mary was there…Mary wants Jesus to do something that would make Him a very public figure…But it is not my hour…a wedding His hour…Yes Mary knew that Jesus was not generated by man and she knew Jesus would return to heaven body and soul. We know that a wedding is a symbol of when Jesus references His hour. All things made new in Him. A new heaven and earth . The wedding of the Lamb.

This is very solid evidence that Mary knew that Jesus had power over death. That she didn’t have to ask Him to ask God for a miracle but she could ask Jesus and His yes or No sealed the deal. Not to mention the very good insights others have mentioned that you really didn’t refute in a manner to doubt it.

Rev, Isn’t it interesting that Jesus introduces himself at 12 as the Son of God and His parents were confused about what he said but then at the wedding Mary asks Jesus to do a miracle as if the buck stops with Him. She didn’t ask Him to ask God or petition God for a miracle. She just said .they are out of wine’ then to the servants, ’ do whatever He tells you. Sounds like she knows He is more than just a prophet of God sounds like she treats Him like God.

 

[marlo]

Peter is the first christian, as christians is the body of christ. the First is peter by God’s revelation.

From Adam to John the baptist (including Mother Mary) they all part of the old covenant.

 

[Dancelittleewok]

Who was the first Christian?

God.