Who will you be supporting in the U.S. presidential election with our Catholic values in mind?

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Abortions will be performed whether legal or not. If banned, they will be performed in dangerous and unsafe conditions. I haven’t made up my mind about any of the candidates yet, but I did vote for Trump last election.
 
I think I’ll vote for any candidate who promises to get the Little Sisters of the Poor off the Obama HHS Mandate requirement that they provide abortifacients for their employees and themselves.

And I think I’ll vote for the candidate who promises to reinstate the Mexico City Policy prohibiting spending tax dollars on abortions in foreign countries.

And I think I’ll vote for the candidate who promises to nominate prolife justices to the Supreme Court.

And I think I’ll vote for the candidate who promises not to start any foreign wars and to get us out of as many as possible.

And I think I’ll vote for the candidate who negotiates a new and better trade deal with Mexico and Canada.

And I think I’ll vote for the candidate who reduces my taxes.

And I think I’ll vote for the candidate who is most likely to reduce unemployment, especially among blacks and Hispanics.

Uh, let’s see…I guess I already did do that. Guess I’ll do it again.
 
We don’t allow stealing just because people still steal and it would be safer for robbers than having to scale a building and break in. I understand wanting to show compassion to women that are in horrible circumstances, but allowing murder isn’t the answer. I’m also not trying to convince you to vote for Trump, I actually didn’t last election.
 
I believe abortion is murder, certainly.

However, the courts in our country have determined that it is only illegal under certain circumstances, and that one’s right to privacy outweighs the right of the gov. telling a woman what she can do to her body at certain times. Like it or not that is settled law. Nothing is going to ban all abortions, not even a SCOTUS that is full of justices appointed by a particular party.

You can not legislate morality. Should we start locking people up for adultery, or spending money at the casinos instead of taking care of one’s family, or people who use our system of laws to get something that they really aren’t entitled to? We could go on an on.

Fetus’s don’t have the rights of adults in this country. Until one reaches that age of 18, or 21 for some things, children don’t have all the rights of adults in this country. That is just the way it is.

The laws in this country are designed to keep the public peace, protect individuals from either physical or financial harm of another, and establish norms for behavior. So, yes, we need laws.

You and I and many others may want to outlaw abortion, but the reality is we live in a representative republic and since we don’t get to call all the shots and others have a say in the matter, outlawing abortion isn’t going to happen, ever. And don’t count on the SCOTUS outlawing abortion either, that is a pie in the sky. Which is why I simply ignore that issue and look at the quality of character of the candidate whom I am voting for.
 
I’m glad there were enough people that didn’t share your attitude when it came to abolishing slavery and segregation. I hope that soon enough people will disagree with you to abolish abortion as well.
 
Slavery = rationalized by D’s on basis that blacks aren’t real people

Abortion = rationalized by D’s on basis that babies aren’t real people

See the pattern?
 
Slavery is not the same as abortion. Yes they are both moral issues, but not the same.

If you are planning that the trend in people’s thoughts on abortion are going to somehow reverse, again, pie in the sky attitude. They have remained pretty much the same for the past half a century.

50+% legal under some circumstances.
20% illegal under all circumstances.
20+% legal under all circumstances.

When 70% of the population agree with abortion under some or all circumstances, that pie up in the sky gets bigger.
 
farronwolf said:
Slavery is not the same as abortion. Yes they are both moral issues, but not the same.
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Your post employed the argument that “settled law” can be factored in as a basis for making moral voting judgments (“I simply ignore the issue”). This argument implies one could vote for pro Slavery candidate since its ok to “ignore the issue” of slavery in 1850’s when slavery was “settled law”
 
I guess if one ignores all the court rulings which started almost immediately after our constitution was ratified you could assume that slavery was settled law.

However if one looks at the reality of the situation you would know slavery was in fact not settled law.

Next.
 
Oh so now “settled law” doesn’t mean “settled law” it means “subliminally settled law”

Kind of like abortion with “right to privacy” that appears nowhere in the Constitution
 
I just don’t really care where the pie is, it’s a pie worth fighting for. Lives are at stake, and the more pro-choice candidates placed in decision making positions, the less restrictions there are, and the more commonplace abortions become. The opposite is true for prolife candidates. Just the fact that abortion is legal makes more people think it’s okay to kill unborn children. People are convincing women that they are fighting for rights to “their” bodies the way plantation owners thought they were fighting for rights to “their” property. For me, it is the number one issue worth guiding my vote because it is the biggest oppression of our time, and too many people are confused by the rhetoric of pro-choice candidates.
 
farronwolf said:
When 70% of the population agree with abortion under some or all circumstances, that pie up in the sky gets bigger.
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Matthew 7
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

70% sounds about right for “many”
 
It may not be spelled out specifically in the Constitution, but the courts have determined that it is in there, and have subsequently upheld the fact that it is in there.

The Constitution does however say people who are born or naturalized have rights. It says nothing about the unborn. So until we have a Constitutional amendment which states that unborn have rights there will be no ban on abortion. Just the way it is.

I don’t see any amendment coming forward and being ratified, whether is it initiated in Congress or at the state level. So as I have stated previously, it is settled law.
 
Aquinas11 said:
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farronwolf:
When 70% of the population agree with abortion under some or all circumstances, that pie up in the sky gets bigger.
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Matthew 7
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

70% sounds about right for “many”
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I especially like what follows:

15 Be on your guard against false prophets, men who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but are ravenous wolves within. 16 You will know them by the fruit they yield. Can grapes be plucked from briers, or figs from thistles? 17 So, indeed, any sound tree will bear good fruit, while any tree that is withered will bear fruit that is worthless; 18 that worthless fruit should come from a sound tree, or good fruit from a withered tree, is impossible. 19 Any tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down, and thrown into the fire. 20 I say therefore, it is by their fruit that you will know them.

Lots of people overlooking wolves in sheep’s clothing when it comes to politics.
 
farronwolf said:
So until we have a Constitutional amendment which states that unborn have rights there will be no ban on abortion. Just the way it is.
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Just like until we had a Constitutional amendment that states that blacks have rights there was no ban on slavery. Just the way it is. (precise wording used by Confederates of Civil war)
 
farronwolf said:
Lots of people overlooking wolves in sheep’s clothing when it comes to politics.
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Yes, like when same people saying “we shouldn’t rip children from their parents” at border support ripping babies from their mothers womb up until birth.
 
farronwolf said:
You can not legislate morality. Should we start locking people up for adultery, or spending money at the casinos instead of taking care of one’s family, or people who use our system of laws to get something that they really aren’t entitled to? We could go on an on.
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Add theft, murder and rapd. In fact lets not have laws at all.
 
Um, no, you are ignoring the states that banned or were working to ban slavery prior to the civil war and prior to the amendment.

Hence the civil war and the states rights issue which initiated it. Yes slavery was one of the factors, but it was states rights that were in question.

We have had states which have tried to ban abortion recently and what has happened? It was quashed by the courts.
Yes, like when same people saying “we shouldn’t rip children from their parents” at border support ripping babies from their mothers womb up until birth.
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Neither is right or moral. Again, until we have an amendment stating that unborn have rights similar to born persons, it is apples and oranges in the legal system.
 
Elf01 said:
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farronwolf:
You can not legislate morality. Should we start locking people up for adultery, or spending money at the casinos instead of taking care of one’s family, or people who use our system of laws to get something that they really aren’t entitled to? We could go on an on.
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Add theft, murder and rapd. In fact lets not have laws at all.
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All of those affect a person who has rights, which is what our laws are for. Currently fetus’ don’t have the same rights as persons in our legal system.

I have not suggested that we have no laws, don’t know where you get that from.
 
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