Who will you be supporting in the U.S. presidential election with our Catholic values in mind?

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I believe that considering a baby as punshinment speaks volumes re where he stands on abortion.
 
Don’t deflect. The border is a different issue and a complex one.

I care more about actions than I do about words. Trump appointed prolife judges and reinstituted the Mexico City Policy. Obama appointed pro-abortion judges, voided the Mexico City Policy and forced the Little Sisters of the Poor to provide abortifacients to their employees and themselves.
Obama’s position could not have been more clear.

The Dem party platform announces that the party is “pro choice”. NARAL approves nearly all Dem candidates as being “pro choice”. NRL agrees with them. The Dem party is the abortion party.
 

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www.usatoday.com

As the border stands, many people die because of the smugglers.

I can’t help but think, a lack of strict enforcement leads to these kinds of hardships on the migrants.

I hardly see the view of some as compassionate at all. Plus, organized crime enriches themselves, this above happened in England but it happens around the world.

Also, many Americans are hurt by illegal immigration in many different ways, harm or worse to themselves as individuals, theft and so on. Being victims of crimes. Drugs smuggled in, stand of living, job market, the list goes on and on. We can be compassionate but must exercise caution as well.
 
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Victoria33 said:
Also, many Americans are hurt by illegal immigration in many different ways, harm or worse to themselves as individuals, theft and so on. Being victims of crimes. Drugs smuggled in, stand of living, job market, the list goes on and on. We can be compassionate but must exercise caution as well.
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This brings us to an important point.

We have to vote for one individual; we can’t vote on specific issues.

Suppose, as one of the posters said, that as Catholics we can’t support the death penalty.

But suppose I have to make a choice between a liberal Democrat who opposes the death penalty and also supports illegal immigration and President Trump who supports the death penalty and opposes illegal immigration.

I’d have to choose which is a bigger threat or a more immediate threat. And I’d probably decide that illegal immigration poses a bigger threat to society than a convicted murderer getting the death penalty. I’m no big supporter of the death penalty, either, but if we support illegal immigration we’re taking a chance on Americans being murdered, and I don’t think that’s very compassionate or very Christian.
 
ForeverLearn said:
Citation, please.
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Not the best source, but this is what I have:


Intersectionality appeals to tell the level of perceived disadvantage a group would have. In terms of affirmative action, sometimes being perceived as being high up on the intersection latter makes you far more favorable to someone whom subscribes to this theory to which I believe Obama and the MSM did than someone who’s lower on the intersection curve - aka straight white Christian conservative male is probably the lowest, aka most privileged. An atheist is likely to be considered more of a minority than a Christian. Of all the religions, Muslim is likely to be the most oppressed group. Likewise, being disabled vs non-disabled, black vs Native vs Hispanic vs white vs Asian, gay vs straight, and transgender vs cisgender. It’s a college professor theory where certain groups are more privileged than other groups.

Typically people that are very conservative don’t buy into the prospect of intersectionality. I mainly buy into personal responsibility and the unfortunate tendency of our culture or any culture for that matter to promote some characteristics and marginalize others perceived as different. Righting past wrongs.
 
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signit said:
I’d have to choose which is a bigger threat or a more immediate threat. And I’d probably decide that illegal immigration poses a bigger threat to society than a convicted murderer getting the death penalty. I’m no big supporter of the death penalty, either, but if we support illegal immigration we’re taking a chance on Americans being murdered, and I don’t think that’s very compassionate or very Christian.
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What?

I think you need to look at the facts. Immigrants, whether illegal or legal are much less likely to commit murder than natural born citizens.

Completely uninformed statement.
 
farronwolf said:
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signit:
I’d have to choose which is a bigger threat or a more immediate threat. And I’d probably decide that illegal immigration poses a bigger threat to society than a convicted murderer getting the death penalty. I’m no big supporter of the death penalty, either, but if we support illegal immigration we’re taking a chance on Americans being murdered, and I don’t think that’s very compassionate or very Christian.
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What?

I think you need to look at the facts. Immigrants, whether illegal or legal are much less likely to commit murder than natural born citizens.

Completely uninformed statement.
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Immigrants as a class are not more likely to commit crimes than the population at large. That’s the statistic you frequently hear.

Illegal immigrants are more likely to commit crimes, and they tend to commit more serious crimes.

And even if they weren’t, one is too many; that’s one crime that wouldn’t have been committed if the person hadn’t been allowed to be here illegally.
 
I am not going to derail this thread by arguing with you about numbers which you know nothing about.

It took 10 seconds to look this up. You can if you choose to be informed look for more data. This is just Texas.

Doesn’t get much more conservative than the CATO Institute.

https://www.cato.org/publications/i...minal-immigrants-texas-2017-illegal-immigrant

Just a little portion of the introduction for you:

The results in this updated brief show that in Texas in 2017, illegal immigrants were 47 percent less likely to be convicted of a crime than native-born Americans and legal immigrants were about 65 percent less likely to be convicted of a crime than native-born Americans. The conviction and arrest rates for illegal immigrants were lower than those for native-born Americans but higher than those for legal immigrants. This result holds in just about every case, including homicide, sex crimes, larceny, and most other crimes.
 
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If they are presenting themselves at a port of entry, or if they seek asylum after entry into this country they have committed no crime.

It is essentially a civil matter.

Not until they are deported and return to the country again is it considered a criminal matter.

I really wish people would learn the laws of our country before simply spouting off nonsense that they hear from talking heads on tv. If you aren’t curious enough to look up the laws on immigration, just let me know and I will post you links.
 
RuthAnne said:
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signit:
Illegal immigrants are more likely to commit crimes, and they tend to commit more serious crimes.
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They have already committed a crime.
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It was not always so. Unauthorized border crossing was a civil offense for 153 years. You could still be deported if caught, but it was not a criminal offense. That changed in 1929 as a response to Mexican immigration. It is an arbitrary distinction because of that.
 
Guinness said:
Is it still okay to pray for people you have political disagreements with? I have a hard time keeping up with all the changes.
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I think so… if not, i’ll break the rules for you

Now drinking Guinness instead of Murphy’s, that’s another story
 
farronwolf said:
I am not going to derail this thread by arguing with you about numbers which you know nothing about.
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I’m not either. That’s not the point of this thread.

There are other statistics available that point the other way.

In any event, as I said, I don’t particularly care. My bottom line is that I care about Americans more than I care about illegal aliens.
 
I said nothing about legal immigration. I said that illegal immigration i.e., crossing the border illegally, is a crime, which it is.
 
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RuthAnne said:
I said nothing about legal immigration. I said that illegal immigration i.e., crossing the border illegally, is a crime, which it is.
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Well not necessarily. You must have misread my last statement. If someone crossed the border, even if not at a point of entry, but later seeks asylum, it is not a crime.

Just because you say something is true, doesn’t make it so. Got any US Code or Immigration rules to support your position?
 
If Mexico can’t take care of their own people and aren’t willing to stop their people from flooding the U.S. economy, why doesn’t the U.S. just absorb Mexico?
 
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