Who will you be supporting in the U.S. presidential election with our Catholic values in mind?

[farronwolf]

farronwolf:

Got any US Code or Immigration rules to support your position?

Just look online. It’s easy to find. Don’t ask me to do your research.

Here I will do it for you.

§ 1158. Asylum
(a) Authority to apply for asylum
(1) In general
Any alien who is physically present in the United States or who arrives in the United States (whether or not at a designated port of arrival and including an alien who is brought to the United States after having been interdicted in international or United States waters), irrespective of such alien’s status, may apply for asylum in accordance with this section or, where applicable, section 1225(b) of
this title.

USC 1325

(b)* *Improper time or place; civil penalties

Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of–

(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or

(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

Notice they are civil penalties.

 

[RuthAnne]

If someone goes through the asylum process then they aren’t illegal aliens.

Are you saying that illegal immigration is not a crime?

 

[farronwolf]

I am saying according to our laws it is essentially a civil matter unless you fall into specific categories like having a criminal offense, lying on the application or having been deported previously and returning again.

This stuff isnt as simple as many would have it be. Essentially if you dont have a green card you are a criminal. Or if you show up at the border you are a criminal.

The politicians, talking heads on tv and the web spread a lot of misinformation to get folks riled up and keep their ratings up.

 

[pnewton]

Illegal immigrants are more likely to commit crimes, and they tend to commit more serious crimes.

If you believe that, then it could reflect in your vote. For me, I have found it to look more like a propaganda technique, similar to what was done with the Jews in 1930 Germany. I will vote for I believe has integrity and best represents the Catholic position.

 

[Mark121359]

I still believe that he was commenting more on his support for sex education and contraceptives than he was advocating that his daughter have an abortion… I think that twists those comments in to the worse possible meaning instead of what was actually meant.

Here is President Obama’s exact quote. What Jeanne said is exactly correct! Only it’s worse. He wasn’t talking about just any woman being punished with a baby…he was talking about his own daughters!!!

“Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old,” “I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby. I don’t want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn’t make sense to not give them information.”

 

[PetraG]

Well the biggest claim by media was that he engaged in collusion with Russia in 2016 election which turned out to be flat out lie and President Trump was correct. So that assessment of media is simply not true

No–you misunderstand me. I’m saying that I don’t rely on the media. I listen directly to what he tweets and what he says and compare it to the truth myself. He says a lot of false stuff. It is undeniable.

He doesn’t usually even bother to start with a truth and twist it. As often as not, he out-and-out makes stuff up. He says he never said things–not only can I find a video of him saying that, but I remember him saying it! Some of the things he says are just preposterous, too. The frequency with which he says things that are not just false but preposterous is unprecedented. Dizzying, even. The rate with which brazen falsehoods fly out of him is mind-boggling. Few people in public life can get away with one or two things as far removed from reality as he comes out with on a consistent basis. It beggars belief.

 

[PetraG]

They have already committed a crime.

Why are they treated as if they were felons when they are guilty of misdemeanors?

 

[RuthAnne]

That wouldn’t be right now, would it?

 

[godisgood77]

Here is President Obama’s exact quote. What Jeanne said is exactly correct! Only it’s worse. He wasn’t talking about just any woman being punished with a baby…he was talking about his own daughters!!!

You should watch the video to here his comments in context

He was talking about sex education … he said that teenagers should be taught that sex isn’t something casual, about abstinence, about contraceptive and then he says
“Look, I got two daughters — 9 years old and 6 years old,” “I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby. I don’t want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn’t make sense to not give them information.”

He was talking about sex education… not abortion

 

[PetraG]

That wouldn’t be right now, would it?

Do you know what the steps and prospects are for getting a green card to work in the United States? Do you know whether or not the system favors the wealthy and the educated? Would you say that the plain meaning of the red letters in the Gospel advocates for Christians to work to look out for the wealthy and the educated, out of the priority that they understandably put on their own self-interest?

Just as a thought experiment, imagine you are a hard-working person from Mexico. Your family is not rich and hasn’t had access to more than the public education available in Mexico. You aren’t related to a citizen. Your family is having a hard time and could really use the income from a manual labor job in the US. Look into your chances of getting a green card.

OK, now sit down for a lecture on how you ought to wait to immigrate the “right way” to a country with policies like the US has.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Yet he wouldn’t want his daughters punished with a baby…

 

[PetraG]

When it comes to national politics, I have come to feel that the GOP wants to “buy” the Christian vote by opposing abortion and the Democrats want to “buy” it by saying they look out for the poor, but honestly I think the GOP looks out for the wealthy and the Democrats look out for new ways to impose some new social engineering on the entire populace. I think we have two parties who think that supporting a fully Christian agenda is a good way to lose elections, so they throw bones with no meat on them and hope that the Christians will choose them as the lesser of two evils.

I’m tired of it. All that these deals with the devil have done is to give Christianity a bad name. Maybe the candidates are right and it is impossible to get into power with a Christian agenda. Fine…given the choice between the Gospel and secular power, let somebody else have the power.

 

[godisgood77]

Yet he wouldn’t want his daughters punished with a baby

Frankly, I wouldn’t want my teenage daughter to engage in sexual activity, get pregnant and have the burden of motherhood at that young age and out of wedlock either… would you?

I’d prefer she learn about the virtues of abstinence and the consequences associated with sex… and the dangers of STDs…

 

[PetraG]

Frankly, I wouldn’t want my teenage daughter to engage in sexual activity, get pregnant and have the burden of motherhood at that young age and out of wedlock either… would you?

Saying that having a child is a punishment was a poor choice of words. It is a natural consequence that a couple might arrive at without understanding how they got there, though. My mother knew a girl in high school who became pregnant before she knew how someone GOT pregnant. There is no excuse for not teaching children how the human body works, from the necessity for exercise to the way that sexual cooperation results in the birth of children.

Canon law reads this way:
Can. 1096 §1. For matrimonial consent to exist, the contracting parties must be at least not ignorant that marriage is a permanent partnership between a man and a woman ordered to the procreation of offspring by means of some sexual cooperation.
§2. This ignorance is not presumed after puberty.

It is only proper that a Catholic understand and appreciate the natural biological consequences of certain acts, rather than just being told they are wrong. The gravity is more easily appreciated when we understand the possible consequences of a gravely immoral act. Now that we have learned how serious the consequences can be when viruses such as the HPV family are transmitted, there is no excuse for failing to teach this to the young.

 

[godisgood77]

Saying that having a child is a punishment was a poor choice of words.

I agree…

To be clear … It is awful that Obama supported abortion rights while he was president … I am only advocating for honest civil discourse on this topic… twisting the words of those we disagree with doesn’t help anyone

 

[Jeanne_S]

Absolutely! However his comment speaks volumes re his thoughts about babies ,unless they are planned then not so much a punishment

 

[JimG]

Now that we have learned how serious the consequences can be when viruses such as the HPV family are transmitted, there is no excuse for failing to teach this to the young.

Yes. And there is no excuse for passing out condoms to the young which fail to protect them from the HPV virus, and only encourages them to have sex outside of marriage which will rresult in STD’s and unplanned pregnancies.

 

[PetraG]

I agree…

It is awful that Obama supported abortion rights… I am only advocating for honest civil discourse… twisting the words of those we agree with doesn’t help anyone

I agree. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who allow themselves to look at abortion as a possibility because they do look at pregnancy as a “punishment” for having chosen momentary pleasure over long-term consequences. The child is not seen as a person who of course deserves to live.

The current rate of rate of pregnancies ended by abortion is actually lower than it was in 1973. This is partly because contraception is more widely available, but abortion was not unknown when it was illegal. Countries that restrict abortion still have high abortion rates.

I’m not into “political correctness,” but I do believe that the way people talk matters. Talking about pregnancy as a punishment of sexual consort instead of one of its raisons d 'être is a way of discounting the value of an unborn child and distorting the meaning of human sexuality.

I would rather he had said something like, “I’m going to teach them about values and morals, but I’m also going to teach them exactly what the consequences are of poor decision-making–not just for my daughters, but for my grandchildren and my sons-in-law. Young people need information to know not just what they ought to do or not do but why they ought to do it and what consequences they will be bringing on whom if they ignore the facts of life.”

 

[Annie]

But there were women having abortions before it was legal, and there were women travelling to where it was legal.

How much did this happen?

 

[PetraG]

How much did this happen?

The abortion rate in the US before Roe v. Wade for women 15-44 is estimated to have been 16.3 per 1,000 women 15-44. The current rate is estimated to be 13.5 per 1,000.

If you look at Chile as an example, you can see that criminalization alone, even if it covers an entire country, does not save children’s lives. That is not enough.