Why Catholics Should Vote for Trump article

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Elizabeth3 said:
The CDC is on the verge of of downgrading Covid from an epidemic.
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This claim is false.

I am not taking any positions on mask wearing mandates or other policy issues. I am trying to show that this claim is not an accurate interpretation of the CDC information.

If you want to oppose a mask mandate because “the CDC is on the verge of downgrading Covid…”, that is inappropriate because that claim is wrong. If you want to oppose it as unmanageable, go ahead; I do not have any position I would care to discuss here. I am only objecting to the misrepresentation of the CDC info.
 
Dovekin said:
This claim is false.
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It is not a false claim. On the verge means close to. The current data is at the epidemic threshold. Saying that it is “on the verge” is not the same as claiming they will downgrade. Whether they do or not in the immediate future is not what I’m basing my opposition to a mandate on. Just the fact that the numbers are so low as to be in the realm of possibility tells me that we are not anywhere near the need for a national mandate at this time. That is a perfectly appropriate analysis of the data in my naming reasons for opposition. I get that you want to quibble over the fact that with the recent spikes the death rate may go up a bit but that isn’t a factor for my purposes of opposing a national mandate.
 
Katolikuss said:
And some refer to “it” as the far-left fascists. The ignorance of these people is truly “catholic” (all-encompassing). They are ignorant of the basic facts, namely that Nazism (Germany) and fascism (Italy) are both far-right ideologies, while communism is a far-left ideology. They are both statists. I wonder who invented this nonsensical nomenclature, but I whoever it was, was ignorant to the extreme.
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Prolly the same people who thought insisting that the DNC was the party of slavery and Jim Crowe says something about the two parties today. Of course, if you mention that the South was the Democratic base and the parties merely switched sides, they’ll get all triggered. 🙂
 
VonDerTann said:
Actually, Trump literally is an angel, compared to people like Joe Biden; Illhan Omar;
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What makes Ilhan Omar worse than the president? Funny thing is, I agree with you about Kamala Harris: but Ilhan Omar? Why?
 
TheLittleLady said:
The US Bishops specifically address this in FCFC:

36. When all candidates hold a position in favor of an intrinsic evil, the conscientious voter faces a dilemma. The voter may decide to take the extraordinary step of not voting for any candidate or, after careful deliberation, may decide to vote for the candidate deemed less likely to advance such a morally flawed position and more likely to pursue other authentic human goods.
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It makes sense. If one genuinely believes that abortion will end/continue based on whoever the next president is, they should absolutely vote for the president who will lead to its end. But if one thinks this question will not be determined based on who is president , they are free to consider other things too. I personally would be very tempted to vote for a Bernie Sanders because of the other good things that would happen for poor people if he had been the nominee, but I would still not vote in the end. As it stands, I couldn’t append my vote to these two candidates or their horrible divisive parties.
 
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Rubee said:
It makes sense. If one genuinely believes that abortion will end/continue based on whoever the next president is, they should absolutely vote for the president who will lead to its end. But if one thinks this question will not be determined based on who is president , they are free to consider other things too. I personally would be very tempted to vote for a Bernie Sanders because of the other good things that would happen for poor people if he had been the nominee, but I would still not vote in the end. As it stands, I couldn’t append my vote to these two candidates or their horrible divisive parties.
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Well, I certainly wouldn’t accept that some people dying is okay but maybe I understand the Catholic faith wrong.

It should definitely be seen as well that per candidates like Sanders and Obama, these are big promoters of abortion, perhaps even infanticide. But gee whillikers, some is okay.

I can see one say “candidate A” is going to start a war, I don’t want to vote for him. That situation is dealt with in the catechism.

But it’s a whole different thing, if one regularly attacks pro-lifers. Possibly because of something about them, party affiliation. That also smacks of prejudice.

What if Margaret Sanger was a white supremacist? What if her award was said, “Hillary Clinton received the Margaret Sanger award, Sanger was a white sup;emacist”. What if the Sanger award was called a “White Supremacist Award”, I"m not sure it shouldn’t be.


I believe it is wrong if one is just categorically deriding some people. They don’t seem to believe in making abortion illegal in the first place to denigrate some politician say, because it allows abortion if their is incest for example. Their point of view seems disingenuous. I think it is also wrong to denigrate pro-lifers in such a manner.
 
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First off, I 100% disagree with the notion that we’re going to define Illhan Omar as “worse than the president,” because that suggests Trump is bad. He isn’t. That said:

–First off, Illhan Omar is an anti-semite. Her antisemitism is well-documented and exceeds the anti-semitism of the so-called “squad” she belongs to, including her pals Rashida Tlaib (who called the president a “mother------”) & AOC. In 2019 the Jerusalem Post gave Omar the “anti-semite of the year” “award.”

–After her well-publicized affair and remarriage, she’s managed to divert nearly $900,000 and counting to her new husband’s (sheesh, how many does she have by like age 40?) firm, including $200,000 in March 2020 alone. The below story is from yesterday so it’s certainly timely:


–She appears to have fraudulently married her brother.


–Her support for abortion rights; the foolish “Green New Deal;” the “abolish the police” movement, etc., and her desire to remake the US make it astonishing that any Catholic could support her.
 
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VonDerTann said:
Trump will win. He won’t need worldly help.

Traditionally, a sitting president is hard to defeat; the polls under-represent Trump’s support; Biden is a terrible candidate.

One way the polls are skewed is this: we often don’t know who is being polled. Biden will win CA & NY by several million votes each. Point is: Trump can lose the popular vote by 5+ million votes and win the election anyway. He did it once already.
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I hope you’re right. Reading this thread makes it obvious that good manners is more important to people than good actions. Good to know.

I personally think it depends on who Vice President Biden selects for his running mate (Vice President).

I think a lot of Americans are uncertain of Vice Pres. Biden. If they liked Pres. Obama, they’ll be OK with VP Biden.

But it seems that a lot of people question VP Biden’s ability to be the President. Now I think that’s silly–the man is not a good speaker, and many Americans are not good speakers, and I don’t think it’s right to deny a person an office because they’re poor public speakers.

However, Vice President Biden will either demonstrate his political savvy OR he will lose the election depending on who he selects as his running mate. Thankfully our Constitution requires that the Vice Presidential candidate be at least 35 years of age, so that eliminates several of the young women who seem to be the favorites of many Americans.

But if he selects someone with a lot of experience, the ability to speak well in public, and who appeals to people as a compassionate, caring individual–I think the Biden ticket will win. 😭

Sorry, VonDer Tann, but I think that the media has done too good a job with their constant attacks against Pres. Trump, and I think that most people are not willing to look past his many personal faults at the bigger picture.

I would like to challenge Catholics (and others on this forum) to re-read the story of Samson (Judges 13-16). Samson was an awful judge of Israel (the political leader at that time in history)! He was a slave to his appetites, uncouth, a womanizer, imputsive, talked too much–sound familiar everyone?

Yet GOD used him mightily. He was God’s choice for those times, and at the end of his life, Samson’s tragic plea to God was answered by God, Who was still using Samson to defeat the enemies of Israel.

I think that Pres. Trump is a current “Samson,” with many negative traits, but that God IS using him to bring about much good in this country.

I know that many of you have legitimate complaints against the President and his administration. But…when it comes to the issues that Christians are concerned about, mainly abortion, Pres. Trump is hailed by pro-life activist groups as a champion. Pres. Biden will reverse this. I don’t think any policy, ANY “Autobahn” can justify voting FOR a Presidential candidate who will bring about this sure-fire death sentence for innocents.
 
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Victoria33 said:
Well, I certainly wouldn’t accept that some people dying is okay but maybe I understand the Catholic faith wrong.
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Me neither. That’s why a candidate who would not let people die from treatable illnesses for the crime of being too poor to pay for healthcare would tempt me quite a bit, but hey, that’s just me. Even more so considering they wouldn’t have to jump over a SCOTUS constitutional ruling to provide it. Pro-life does mean caring for all human lives, after all, not just the unborn ones.
 
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VonDerTann said:
–First off, Illhan Omar is an anti-semite. Her antisemitism is well-documented and exceeds the anti-semitism of the so-called “squad” she belongs to, including her pals Rashida Tlaib (who called the president a “mother------”) & AOC. In 2019 the Jerusalem Post gave Omar the “anti-semite of the year” “award.”
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Could you please provide me a SINGLE anti-semitic thing she said? Just one would do.

Of course, all you’re going to do is provide me (1) her criticisms of a govt that’s practising apartheid and (2) her criticism of an attempt in your congress to punish people boycotting that govt, but I’ll wait. After all, if it’s “well-documented” you’ll not struggle to come up with ONE anti-semitic thing she has said or done. 🙂

PS: The Ilhan Omar thing is one of the things that convinced me the American Right is NO LESS VICIOUS than the Left they pretend to fear. It was the most hateful campaign I saw, even surpassing the Left’s vicious attack on Judge Kavanaugh. Both your “sides” are utterly despicable and beyond the pale, willing to lie about and sacrifice people to get what they want when they see red meat dangled before them. BOTH.
 
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OK, Rubee, how’s this tweet Omar sent:

“Israel has hypnotized the world, may Allah awaken the people and let them see the evil doings of Israel.”

-Cite is the New Jersey Herald, 9/1/19.

BTW, you’re right about one thing - it wasn’t hard for me to find at all. Took me maybe 3 minutes. It’d take you as long, had you wanted to look.
 
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VonDerTann said:
“Israel has hypnotized the world, may Allah awaken the people and let them see the evil doings of Israel.”

-Cite is the New Jersey Herald, 9/1/19.

BTW, you’re right about one thing - it wasn’t hard for me to find at all. Took me maybe 3 minutes. It’d take you as long, had you wanted to look.
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What is REMOTELY antisemitic there? “Israel”? It’s a state, not a religion or an ethnic group. That tweet was a complaint about Israel being allowed to get away with CRIMES against Palestinians. Explain to me in what way criticizing a state is anti-semitic.

Keep trying. Maybe, by some miracle, you’ll actually find something anti-semitic that she has said that you don’t have to project onto her criticisms of Israel or the anti-BDS legislation that sought to punish BDS supporters.

PS: Ilhan Omar called for a boycott of Saudi Arabia, urging people not to go to the Hajj. By your logic, we should label her anti-Arab and anti-muslim for the audacity to criticize a country in the process of doing bad things. 🙃
 
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You asked for 1 example of anti-semitism and sarcastically said, “it shouldn’t take long.”

It didn’t - and I can see you’re unhappy about that.

Your response is what most folks do when they’re confronted as you were: Basically say, “uh…I want another one!”

–And no matter how many you’ll be given, you’ll explain them away as “it wasn’t really anti-semitism!” Which is what you’re trying to do.

I’d pretty much say calling the only Jewish nation on earth “evil” is anti-semitic. Not “certain people” or “it’s government,” but the whole nation as Omar did. That’s anti-semitism.

BTW, want a true Friend of Israel? Donald Trump! He’s the president who actually recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, after many years of both political parties dancing around that one!

There are certain folks I usually don’t engage on this board. Children is 1. Holocaust deniers are 2. And since you’ve already accused Israel of “practicing apartheid” (which is false) I’ll add a 3rd group and charitably end the conversation.
 
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VonDerTann said:
You asked for 1 example of anti-semitism and sarcastically said, “it shouldn’t take long.”
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I did and you did exactly as preditced: FAILED to provide a SINGLE example of anti-semitism, rushing to post a criticism of Israel, instead 🙂
Your response is what most folks do when they’re confronted as you were: Basically say, “uh…I want another one!”
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Lies. You are simply insisting that critising Israel is anti-semitic. It’s not my fault if you don’t understand a term, like anti-semitic.

I predicted you wouldn’t find one, BECAUSE IT DOESN’T EXIST.

Ilhan Omar has not said ONE anti-semitic thing. She has criticized (1) Israel and its govt for its/their crimes, no different than she has critized the KSA and the Saudi govt, (2) AIPAC for its lobbying of U.S. foreign policy, along with Saudi lobbying, and (3) the attempts by your legislators to punish Israel’s critics and boycotters.

You will not come up with one because the whole thing was invented. And I followed it all and I know one comment like that does not exist. 🙂

Criticing Israel is not anti-semitism, neither is criticising AIPAC or anti-BDS legislation. The whole notion is laughable.
 
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VonDerTann said:
I’d pretty much say calling the only Jewish nation on earth “evil” is anti-semitic. Not “certain people” or “it’s government,” but the whole nation as Omar did. That’s anti-semitism.
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So, Israel is beyond NORMAL criticisms of states because it’s the only Jewish state? When people say “China is doing x, y, z; America is doing x, y, z; Saudi Arabia is doing x, y, z,” are they being hateful?

Israel is a state and its completely fair game for criticisms no different from every other state on earth. It’s you guys singling it out for being “the only Jewish state.” Other people, Ilhan Omar included, just treat it like a state, like any other, not like a brittle little child. 🙂

In the international arena, States are the actors, not “certain people” or even just “govts.” Govts act on behalf of states and states are the legal persons who do things vis-a-vis others, not just a “portion of a state” which is why we say “The US launched an immoral war in Iraq” not “Some people in the U.S. launched an immoral war.”
 
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My last response to you, please read what our Bishops have taught us in Forming Consiounces for Faithful Citizenship. As an obedient daughter of the Church, I abide by the teachings there in.
 
Rubee said:
It’s not my fault if you don’t understand a term, like anti-semitic.
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There is a significant number of Catholics who have absorbed the narrow Evangelical Protestant Zionism as both political and a tenant of Faith.

I was raised steeped in that Zionism, it was something I had to confront before I converted to Catholicism. We don’t teach about the Church’s stand on the religious vs the political Israel enough. Maybe we need a new thread?
 
It seems to be the default Protestant position to be pro-Israel. I think it’s trickier for Catholics. Yes, we must love and respect Jews… but at the same time, there are Catholics among the Palestinians and always have been. We as a Church can’t definitively take sides on this issue - and traditionally haven’t.
 
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