Why did Mary specifically mention Russia in Fatima?

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According to the late Fr. Malachi Martin (who was one of the very few people who actually read it), the Third Secret mentions among other things “Russia and Kiev” (his words not mine!). And iirc in 1980 PJPII said that that the Third Secret was not released in order to prevent world Communism from making certain moves.
 
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JoyfulTune said:
Why Mary speaks about politics in her apparitions?
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She didn’t speak about politics but as the Queen of Prophets spoke about the salvation of souls and world events:

"You have seen hell, where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved and there will be peace. The war is going to end; but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the pontificate (reinado in Portuguese = reign) of Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and the Holy Father.

To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of Reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, various nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she will be converted, and a period of peace will be given to the world. In Portugal, the dogma of the Faith will always be preserved; etc… Do not tell this to anybody. Francisco, yes, you may tell him.

When you pray the Rosary, say after each mystery: O my Jesus, forgive us, save us from the fires of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are most in need."

Source: dos Santos, Sister Lucia. Fatima In Lucia’s Own Words. 1976, Fatima, Portugal: Postulation Centre, Ravengate Press, pp. 167-169 (Fourth Memoir).

N.B. The prayer is the original version which is different from the popular version. Italics mine. Boldface is specifically in the Fourth Memoir of +Sister Lucia.
 
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Margaret_Ann said:
According to the late Fr. Malachi Martin (who was one of the very few people who actually read it), the Third Secret mentions among other things “Russia and Kiev” (his words not mine!).
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Regarding sources quoted in this thread:
  • Fr. Martin’s credibility is uncertain. He definitely had access to some information in his roles, but some things in his writings have been refuted by credible (IMHO) sources.
I think he wanted to be interviewed, to be read, to be in best seller lists. In his writings he quotes - in quotation marks - what Pope Pius 12 was thinking at a given point. So, be cautious about someone who claims to be a Fly on the Wall whenever Big Decisions were made. But don’t rule him out completely.
  • Fr. Amorth was one of 1000 exorcists of his time. Not Chief anything. The fact that he is quoted with an opinion on everything makes me suspect Public Relations was his main ministry.
  • Fr. Paul Kramer is a sedevacantist whose positions on some things are so extreme I would distrust his statement on anything.
 
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Orthodox and Catholic are not too different . As Saint John Paul 2 stated -
"We must pray that the Church will soon breathe again with both lungs "
 
(name removed by moderator) has already posted information about how to access the book
on youtube . Read his post no 85.
 
It is not about being pleasant or not pleasant.

This is a reality of discernment: that God’s enemy is called The Father of Lies.

One must be vigilant & careful when dealing with spirits & worship.
 
What does ‘private revelation’ exactly mean?

Does the word ‘private’ refer to the person who see the apparition, or the lay people who choose to believe them as a private believe system?

If something is not necessary for our salvation, why allow lay people think that those apparitions contain message for salvation, when the truth is, believing or not believing those messages actually irrelevant to our salvation?

Dealing with spiritual realm, one must be grounded in the word of God. Jesus was tempted by Satan in the dessert. Jesus immediately quote the Bible to identify the correct message (and at the same time identify who the messanger was, who was Satan, The Adversary)
 
I keep seeing this written, and while yes it’s true, you are not required to believe in the apparition as a Catholic, I’d hope you also wouldn’t just simply ‘disregard’ it as you suggest. I mean, saint John Paul II visited Fatima and met with Lucia. Pope’s Benedict and Francis have also been there. I would hope this means something to you.
 
I see.
Polak said:
I would hope this means something to you.
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Does Fatima Apparition has to mean something for catholics? Could you please kindly elaborate futher the reason why it is important, and at the same time, not important for our faith and salvation.
 
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JoyfulTune said:
Then should we believe it?
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The Catholic Church encourages you to strongly consider it.

If this devotion leads you to closer appreciation of public revelation, the Mass, spiritual and corporal works of mercy, then go for it. If it leads you in other directions, well, it’s not right for you at this time.

Private revelations is like the music at Mass. Some people like this hymn, others not. If a hymn, and a given musician, is really effective, you don’t really notice it. It helps you focus in something, Someone else.

If a musician draws attention to himself, if you rely on hymns for teaching more than the gospel or sermon, if you notice the music a lot, that can be a problem.
 
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As I said, it isn’t a requirement of being a Catholic, as believing in Jesus is, but given that saint JPII believed in it and visited Fatima and sister Lucia numerous times, as well as celebrating mass with her, I wouldn’t call it ‘not important’.

If a Catholic really struggles with the apparition, the Church says it isn’t required as part of your Catholic faith, but if you believe in the Church’s good judgment, then why wouldn’t you believe it?
 
The Koran has verses on the Annunciation, the Visitation and the Nativity.
In the nineteenth chapter of the Koran there are 41 verses on Jesus and Mary.
Mary then, is for the Muslims the true Sayyida, or Lady. The only possible serious rival to her in their creed would be Fatima , the daughter of Mahommed himself. But, after the death of Fatima Mahommed wrote " Thou shalt be the most blessed of all the women in Paradise, after Mary "
This brings us to our second point, namely, why the Blessed Mother in the 20th Century should have revealed herselff in the insignificant little village of Fatima, so that to all future generations She would be known as ’ Our Lady of Fatima’ as a pledge and sign of hope to the Muslim people and an assurance that they, who show her so much respect, would one day accept her Divine Son too.
It is a historical fact that the Muslims occupied Portugal for centuries. When they were finally driven out the last Muslim Chief had a beautiful daughter by the name of Fatima. A Catholic boy fell in love with her, and for him, she not only stayed behind when the Muslims left, but , even embraced the Faith. The young husband was so much in love with her that he changed the name of the town where he lived to Fatima. Thus the place where Our Lady appeared in 1917 bears a historical connection to Fatima, the daughter of Mahommed.
 
Polak said:
If a Catholic really struggles with the apparition,
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Over emphasis on a private revelation is also a form of “struggling”. If a person finds himself reading about Fatima more than he is reading the Bible, or if she is evangelizing for Fatima itself, that is “struggling”, time to take a break for awhile.
 
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And if someone is denigrating devotion to Mary the Mother of the Lord, then she
is off topic to the OP’s original post. She should start a new thread in the Non Catholic Section
 
Polak said:
If a Catholic really struggles with the apparition, the Church says it isn’t required as part of your Catholic faith, but if you believe in the Church’s good judgment, then why wouldn’t you believe it?
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This reasoning is based on a flawed intrepretation of what the Church actually says about approved private revelations. It’s not that the Church says “this is true, but you’re free to disagree.” Its that the Church says “this may well be true; it’s certainly plausible and it doesn’t contradict anything, so you can believe in it and not worry that you’re on shaky ground.”

There’s a lot of confusion about what “worthy of belief” means.
 
As I said, Pope John Paul II visited Fatima, he met with Lucia and even put the bullet he was shot with in Mary’s crown in Fatima. Many Catholic priests, bishops and cardinals, often refer to what Mary said in Fatima. So while perhaps the Church isn’t saying ‘you must believe this’, I’d certainly suggest they believe it’s more than just take it or leave it ‘plausible’.
 
Polak said:
I’d certainly suggest they believe it’s more than just take it or leave it ‘plausible’.
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Who is “they” here? Individual clergy speaking as individuals or the Church speaking as The Church?

I’m not trying to talk anyone into or out of belief in an apparition. I’m just saying that when people say “the Church has declared this worthy of belief, so the Church is saying it’s true” are incorrect. That’s just not what it means, full stop.
 
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