Why Do Non-Catholics Do Such A Better Job with Worship?

[ConstantineTG]

Yes they should. They should also be the very best we can do for God.

Yes it should. But again, if the externals are nothing but an empty shell, then no matter how much effort we put into it, it means nothing. Remember, Jesus is against tradition that has lost its meaning. Because people do the externals without realizing the inner reality, it makes that tradition useless.

So are Masses at Saint Pete’s…

People have been trying to discount what I and other have witnessed in non-Catholic churches and that’s terribly wrong to do so.

FWIW, services at “Evangelicals and Pentecostals” are usually very simple, almost stark…

Been there, I know its more about the music and emotion. They try to captivate people with speech and song. But I don’t find anything there spiritually fulfilling. Its like cake. It looks good, it tastes good, will also give you diabetes and doesn’t give you the nutrients a balanced meal can.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Yes it should. But again, if the externals are nothing but an empty shell, then no matter how much effort we put into it, it means nothing. Remember, Jesus is against tradition that has lost its meaning. Because people do the externals without realizing the inner reality, it makes that tradition useless.

Been there, I know its more about the music and emotion. They try to captivate people with speech and song. But I don’t find anything there spiritually fulfilling. Its like cake. It looks good, it tastes good, will also give you diabetes and doesn’t give you the nutrients a balanced meal can.

Yes I agree. The people are sweet and nice, but the services are sort of watered down. I so prefer the rich tradition, the liturgy, the beauty and reverence one can only find in the Catholic Church. (or maybe Anglican - they have some beautiful cathedrals too).

 

[Heffner]

You need to get a spiritual director at your church. The priest shouldn’t have to lead the studies. Don’t you have a parish hall for other activities? I don’t see why your pastor is nixing things though. Maybe you should try a different parish.

Absolutely not. We have several “certified” spiritual directors and there is absolutely no way any of them could facilitate a Scripture study. Then again, that’s not really their focus, although I’m not really sure what is.

I also didn’t say my pastor was asked to lead the group. We had a thoroughly Catholic scripture study program and we had competent facilitators (including myself) lined up.

This was our last pastor. He nixed it for one simple reason. He wanted as few demands on his time as possible.

 

[Heffner]

Yes it should. But again, if the externals are nothing but an empty shell, then no matter how much effort we put into it, it means nothing. Remember, Jesus is against tradition that has lost its meaning. Because people do the externals without realizing the inner reality, it makes that tradition useless.

Stop it already. The great care and obvious skill and dedication they expended does mean something. Maybe not to you but it does to God and His faithful in attendance. Your broken record rant on “externals” is offensive.

Been there, I know its more about the music and emotion. They try to captivate people with speech and song. But I don’t find anything there spiritually fulfilling. Its like cake. It looks good, it tastes good, will also give you diabetes and doesn’t give you the nutrients a balanced meal can.

Wrong again. You should be ashamed of passing judgment on something you did not witness. All you are trying to do is denigrate what they do in order to justify the often rude and half baked/utilitarian 43 minute Masses that so many Catholic parishes offer on Sunday. No sale.

What you are demonstrating is another reason why we have those 43 minute Sunday Masses…

 

[heart4home]

Absolutely not. We have several “certified” spiritual directors and there is absolutely no way any of them could facilitate a Scripture study. Then again, that’s not really their focus, although I’m not really sure what is.

I also didn’t say my pastor was asked to lead the group. We had a thoroughly Catholic scripture study program and we had competent facilitators (including myself) lined up.

This was our last pastor. He nixed it for one simple reason. He wanted as few demands on his time as possible.

So it’s obvious there are issues with your Parish. You can see from reading through the thread though, that just like in Protestant Churches where the atmosphere can be different from church to church (very very different) so can it be from one Parish to the next.

Our Parish is a place that when you arrive before Mass you will certainly find peace and quiet to spend some time with the Lord. You may have one or two who enter late, but it’s certainly not the norm nor is it disruptive. We have greeters at every service that hold the doors and welcome you with a smile. We have an active Adult Faith Formation program including a scripture study each week with one of the Deacons or the Priest. We have a few different choirs for our different Masses. We have an Easter Egg Hunt, a Lenten Soup and Salad each Wednesday Evening, and much more.

So why lump it as being a Non-Catholic vs. Catholic thing. I’m sure if you would spend some Sundays going from Church to Church throughout your city, you’d find plenty of Protestant Churches that don’t meet your preferred style of worship out there. Just as I’m sure if you were to spend some time going Parish to Parish you may find it surprising that many aren’t as awful as you seem to want to make them out to be.

 

[Heffner]

So it’s obvious there are issues with your Parish. You can see from reading through the thread though, that just like in Protestant Churches where the atmosphere can be different from church to church (very very different) so can it be from one Parish to the next.

There is great variation I agree. But I have never seen the level of care for the faithful in a Catholic parish that I saw in this church. They were jaw-dropping good at what they did. If a Catholic parish would do that, I would immediately switch to it.

Our Parish is a place that when you arrive before Mass you will certainly find peace and quiet to spend some time with the Lord. You may have one or two who enter late, but it’s certainly not the norm nor is it disruptive. We have greeters at every service that hold the doors and welcome you with a smile. We have an active Adult Faith Formation program including a scripture study each week with one of the Deacons or the Priest. We have a few different choirs for our different Masses. We have an Easter Egg Hunt, a Lenten Soup and Salad each Wednesday Evening, and much more.

We have the same things for the most part. And the same 10-50 or so people show up and take charge. They’re the sort of people I don’t want to be around.

So why lump it as being a Non-Catholic vs. Catholic thing. I’m sure if you would spend some Sundays going from Church to Church throughout your city, you’d find plenty of Protestant Churches that don’t meet your preferred style of worship out there. Just as I’m sure if you were to spend some time going Parish to Parish you may find it surprising that many aren’t as awful as you seem to want to make them out to be.

Yes, you’re right. I have attended many mainline Protestant parishes and quite a few are just as apathetic as my own parish. But once again, I have never seen the level of care for the faithful in a Catholic parish that I saw in this church. The fact that we Catholics have the Eucharist and the rest of the wonderful gifts from God does not absolve us from trying to create such a beautiful atmosphere. In fact I would submit with such a great gift comes a very big responsibility. Those 43 minute Masses aren’t living up to it either.

 

[heart4home]

There is great variation I agree. But I have never seen the level of care for the faithful in a Catholic parish that I saw in this church. They were jaw-dropping good at what they did. If a Catholic parish would do that, I would immediately switch to it.

We have the same things for the most part. And the same 10-50 or so people show up and take charge. They’re the sort of people I don’t want to be around.

Yes, you’re right. I have attended many mainline Protestant parishes and quite a few are just as apathetic as my own parish. But once again, I have never seen the level of care for the faithful in a Catholic parish that I saw in this church. The fact that we Catholics have the Eucharist and the rest of the wonderful gifts from God does not absolve us from trying to create such a beautiful atmosphere. In fact I would submit with such a great gift comes a very big responsibility. Those 43 minute Masses aren’t living up to it either.

Our Sunday Masses usually average 65 minutes, never less than 60. Our daily Masses are just 30 minutes, but I’ve never ever been to a 43 minute Sunday Mass.

Your comment about the people who take charge at your Parish, leaves me thinking you are obviously just very unhappy where you are.

I pray you find what you are looking for.

 

[TracyR]

I’ll have to agree with the posters that its all about the entertainment. If you aren’t entertained in one church you move on to the next. If the church’s pastor doesn’t speak to you at every Sunday then you move on to another.

I too growing up in the Protestant faith know this for fact. I have been to more Protestant faiths then I can shake a stick at. Luthern, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Assembly of God, CMA ( Christian Missionary Alliance) , and some in between. I had limited exposure of the Catholic faith ( went to a Catholic school for a couple of years).

I will first say that I don’t doubt that the love for God isn’t there because it is. But its not at all the same that you get at a Catholic church.
What you experienced the day you went was something different then what you were accustomed to. You also sat in most likely on a sermon that spoke to you that day.

But trust me if all that wasn’t there would you have been just as interested? I highly doubt it. Trust me if the pastor wasn’t good at what he did, if the music hadn’t all been there, and everything else you wouldn’t of thought the way you did.

The sermons are built around the pastor who is preaching them. People stay the entire time because the service is centered around the sermon. Not like the Catholic church where its centered around the Eucharist.

As for casual dress, even in the Protestant churches I’ve noticed that people are more casual. I’ve noticed people don’t dress up like they used to when I was a child. More and more people just can’t afford to get Sunday clothes. Me being one of them. I just don’t have the money to replace good clothes. Though I’d love to dress up nicer. The nice part is though is I don’t have to worry about not having dress clothes just to go to church. Granted you will never see me in jeans and a tshirt for Mass like I’ve seen others. But you will see me in a pair of nice slacks and a sweater or nice shirt.
As for Catholics leaving church. Yah , that one threw me off for a while. Not that I will ever do it. I won’t. Nor are we ever late for church , at least not yet, knock on wood.Being late though happens to the best of us sometimes. I’d rather be late then not show up at all.

Trust me if you went enough times , especially during those times when the pastor didn’t speak to your heart or it didn’t have any bearing on your life whatsoever , what you leave with is emptyness.
At least with the Catholic church if the message didn’t speak to you that day at least you can leave accepting Christ in the Eucharist.

As for changing things and offering more. Its up to all of us to speak up. If the pastor isn’t receptive then I would move to a parish that is more open to your needs. But most times the parish priest is stretched thin. Most times they just don’t have the want to tackle on just one more thing and if they don’t have people in charge of such things they just most likely don’t want to think about it. Offer your time and your services.

I do agree , you may want to read more about what the mass is about. You will find that if you go to a Protestant church long enough you will wonder where Christ is. As communion is only considered a symbol and it only given once or twice a year( if that).

 

[TheRealJuliane]

**In some ways **it sounds like you would rather join that church.

In SOME ways??? This whole thread has been nothing but praise of That Special Lovely Church and whining about the nature of his local church, which is certainly NOT indicative of anything except THAT church! And, he has ignored many posts which attest to lovely, caring, Catholic parishes which have excellent talent in the choir, programs galore, greeters, atmosphere (I mean how much more atmosphere do you want than the censer???) etc.

My main church has 90 minute Masses with a 30-45 min homily but I’ll bet he’d complain about how long that Mass was!

Really tiresome.

:yawn::ehh:

 

[Phemie]

Why do you feel sorry for me? It is not me who is seeking to turn a true Liturgy into a happy-clappy, feel-good show that the Protestants make of their services.

Now you are totally turning her OP on its head. Nothing in her first post said anything about ‘happy-clappy’ just talked about good church behaviour, good singing, good accompaniment and actual participation. We should be so lucky.

 

[Phemie]

Our Sunday Masses usually average 65 minutes, never less than 60. Our daily Masses are just 30 minutes, but I’ve never ever been to a 43 minute Sunday Mass.

Come to my parish then. Saturday Mass, no singing but with a homily, 35 minutes. Sunday morning Mass with choir, 50 minutes.

 

[TracyR]

You will find good Catholic churches and good Protestant churches. But you will also find not so good Catholic churches and not so good Protestant churches too.

As for bad behavoir I’ve seen it on both sides of the fence. People behave badly no matter what faith they are from.

One thing I’ve learned is that I don’t worry about others. If no one is singing… we still sing :>) If people leave the church… we stay. If people come late… we make it a thing to come early. All in hopes that our habits will rub off on other people. Sometimes you have to lead by example.

 

[TracyR]

Come to my parish then. Saturday Mass, no singing but with a homily, 35 minutes. Sunday morning Mass with choir, 50 minutes.

Oh heck. You haven’t been to our Children’s church on Friday’s. LOL Mass is 2 hrs long! LOL.

 

[losh14]

Yes we have plenty of fellowship at our church too. Tonight there is a pancake supper for Mardi Gras,…:

Pancake suppers, how I miss them! Laissez les bon temps rouller, mon amis. I’m a celiac - I can only eat my own sorghum and potato starch pancakes, now.

 

[losh14]

I really do wish our Sunday tradition was more fulfilling. It would be great to have Bible Study at 08:00, Mass at 10:00 with fellowship to follow. We could even have what I have heard called “covered dish meals.”

Is there a chapel or Newman Center associated with a college nearby you? The pastors there are often more open-minded about activities and more accustomed to having an involved parish. I led a Bible Study at one (well, co-led, with an acolyte in the diaconate who ended up becoming a great friend), and the Center still has events like trivia nights and talent shows, and usually a happy hour once a month for the young adult community.

Even if you just went once in a while there to recharge your batteries, so to speak, it might help you a great deal.

A group of us asked the last pastor to hold Scripture Study on Sunday mornings …The pastor at that time nixed the idea, with no reason given.

I would honestly guess it’s a territorial attitude. Same reason my parents’ parish council nixed our idea of a young adults group a few of us tried to start after college. I don’t think we’re unique in this, though. My Presbyterian friends have lamented the politics they encounter at some of the churches they’ve looked at. If you want to lead a small group, sure that’s fine, but if you want to do anything new or novel (like host a teen movie night, was the most recent one I heard from them) forget it.

I’m not sure how the fellowship hour would go either. People leave immediately after communion around here to get preferred seating at favored restaurants.

On this one I’d give people the benefit of the doubt and see what happens. There might be 1,000 others like you, of which 500 can make it that night. That’s still a heck of a party. Even if you end up with 50, and the next time each brings a guest, it grows. Nothing like this happens overnght, it all takes time and patience.

 

[heart4home]

Come to my parish then. Saturday Mass, no singing but with a homily, 35 minutes. Sunday morning Mass with choir, 50 minutes.

Why would I want to, I’m quite happy with my Parish

I never said the OP was making it up, I said that wasn’t my experience at our Parish so obviously some Parishes are better than others and that also they could go to a hundred other Protestant Churches and not find that same experience they found at that one Church.

 

[po18guy]

I totally agree with this. There seems to be a perception that protestant services are all jumping about and that there is no spirituality.

In some denominations, there is jumping about and that is partly cultural and partly because they believe that as David danced in the bible in his worship to the Lord, so should they. It’s about expressing joy to be in God’s presence.

As Psalm 118:24 says, “This is the day that the Lord has made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it.” These folks don’t see worship as a solemn practice, but a happy one.

I have been involved in all sorts of Protestant services from Anglican ones to Holy-Roller type services and I have felt God’s presence in a way that bought tears to my eyes.

I felt the same way at my first Mass last week.

Anyway, just a Protestant’s two cents.

First of all, welcome to the forums! We can always use a reasoned and balanced response from a fellow lover of Christ.

As to the mass in particular, once one realizes that we stand at the foot of the cross, it takes on a new dimension. Once we realize that we are at the last supper and that Judas has just left, it takes on a new dimension.

Again, a Church that covers the world will reveal the extremes of both pious and irreverent behaviors. Let us recall that the crowd was jeering at Christ as He hung, bleeding to death for us. If those around us do not behave well, then let us pray for them as they ask us to during the Penitential Rite. If the Priest does not conduct the mass as he should, let us pray for his strength, holiness and obedience.

This is one area in which the laity have a crucial task to perform. If we do not perform that task, we should also keep silent about the abuses and distractions.

 

[ClamDigger]

Um… how are piano music and traditional Catholic hymns opposed to each other?

I didn’t say they were opposed to each other… I just don’t like the sound of the piano or any instrumental music during the Mass?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Stop it already. The great care and obvious skill and dedication they expended does mean something. Maybe not to you but it does to God and His faithful in attendance. Your broken record rant on “externals” is offensive.

The truth hurts, that is why you feel its offensive. If every prayer has value, then why did Jesus say, “not everyone who says, ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter heaven”? Not just because they put a lot of effort into it means there’s a lot of substance in it. Again, cake is delicious and it takes a lot of effort to make cake (not everyone can bake, most people can cook), but a well balanced meal is better for you even though it doesn’t look as delicious nor does it taste as delicious.

Wrong again. You should be ashamed of passing judgment on something you did not witness. All you are trying to do is denigrate what they do in order to justify the often rude and half baked/utilitarian 43 minute Masses that so many Catholic parishes offer on Sunday. No sale.

What you are demonstrating is another reason why we have those 43 minute Sunday Masses…

Why should I be the one who is ashamed? I am not the one promoting Protestant worship services in a Catholic forum. I’m not denigrating what they do, I’m calling it what it is. Its nice and all but its all externals, not spiritually fulfilling. Thats the truth. If what they do is indeed better, then our Church would have adopted it. The fact that we haven’t replaced true Liturgy with something else is because we appeal to the inner spiritual reality. True worhsip feeds the soul, not the emotions.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Now you are totally turning her OP on its head. Nothing in her first post said anything about ‘happy-clappy’ just talked about good church behaviour, good singing, good accompaniment and actual participation. We should be so lucky.

[edited] Sure, its nice if people dress better and there’s a good cantor/choir and more participation. But event the lack of those cannot take away what the Liturgy is. To say a Protestant worship service is better because of those elements misses the entire point of Liturgy.

Remember the spiritual reality of the Liturgy where heaven and earth intersects. No Protestant worship service can ever make that claim, no matter how good the singers are or even if the people dress as if they are at the Oscars.