Let’s also not forget that he’s made statements that imply God doesn’t really have the power to sanctify us - something like “snow-covered heaps of dung.” Underneath, we’re still dung, so give up all hope of holiness. What a dim view of the power of our Lord!
Yes, Confraternity of Christian Doctrine. I’m very familiar with it. Taught primarily to kids, taking them up all the way to confirmation. Is that rt?
How did I misunderstand that?
Actually, the human voice can make it perfectly clear to those sitting in the pew who don’t know about salvation. Communion, or the Eucharist can’t do that.
Yes, that’s right!
Read John 6, and then compare it to the purpose of your worship gatherings.
Then I will place extra emphasis on you taking the effort to go out and learn about the Eucharist. The human voice can make it clear (as in CCD and RCIA classes), and still, the broken body of Our Lord makes it even more clear.
When someone cannot say that Jesus is Lord and Savior with certainty, their faith is dangerous.
You’ve got half of that right. I believe Christ to be my Lord and Savior AND obey His teachings especially His greatest commandment which basically states to “love God and love one another.”
On the contrary, I know it very well. I was Catholic for 36 years. I come from a long line of Catholics. How exactly can I condemn you to hell? No can do that but yourself. Someone just said there are pew warmers. I guess they’ll just remain that way, rt? Is that ok with you? While some of my own family members attend church every Sunday and leave without the knowledge of salvation, who do I need to talk to so say they will hear the message. How many years of pew warming will they have to do before someone informs them of salvation.
I guess the only thing that I can say to you there is that I am sorry your family members are not listening…cause we teach it every week.
Uh, we do.
Except that the concept of eternal secutiry is entirely un-Biblical. And, you missed my point - you were saying that YOU know whether someone is saved, which is something that is only in the knowledge of God. I don’t think you want to raise yourself to that level (I know I don’t!)
Do you obey his other teachings, such as the necessity of baptism? Or the Eucharist? Read John 6 again, sincerely, and look at the emphasis Jesus places on receiving Him in the Eucharist.
Well, I’ll quote you where you condemned us to hell:
That means that you have decided, through what you can gather from observing and listening to your friends and family, that you can tell if they’re saved. Again, I say you’re coming awfully close to placing yourself in God’s shoes, and that’s not where I’d want to be!
My girlfriend’s Dad does this. He thinks he has a total lock on if a person is going to heaven or hell based on a few questions that he often asks. And, if you get one of those questions wrong, or answer in a way that is not totally in line with what he and his Fundamentalist buddies think…well you are just damned to hell.
Who am I to just jump in here, but there are time when I think believers has a point. I mean, I have been studying studying studying trying to understand what is taking place in the Mass. And until I got a hold of We Worship A guide to the Catholic Mass, I had no clue what exactly was taking place. And to be honest, I am still having trouble with it. So unless you are taught well, I could see some problems with people fully comprehending the Mass. I think we all have to admit, there was a huge problem in the past with people being adequately catechised. Seriously, if every Catholic truly understood what was taking place at Mass, then all those that only show up for Easter and Christmas, wouldn’t dare miss any other Sunday. (But since they do, isn’t if fair to say, they are missing something… maybe that something is getting “off the couch and [learning]” But they obviously don’t understand the Mass to the extent that they should)
This is where you speak the Truth but don’t fully understand it yet. BELIEVE AND OBEY. Only you can’t just turn around and decide what you must obey, only the commandments about love because it sounds good. You either take Christ at his word, all of it, or you make up your own way. When he commands us to obey Him in ALL THINGS, he means it, he’s not just passing time talking gibberish. To love God means to take him seriously in everything he said *and * commanded, offering him your obedience, otherwise you are fooling not only yourself, but all those you have influence over, and that is a scary situation for you.
Yes indeed the Mass is forever mysterious…I don’t think a single person since the Last Supper fully exhausted all aspects of the Mass…that is the beauty of it isn’t it? It’s a mystery yet there are many shafts of illumination that guides us through. The physical manifestation of the invisible and absolute mystery that is God.
Okay, I grudgingly admit he has a point–but it’s about something I’ve been saying for decades now. Catholics need to learn their faith. Mass is a good place for that because you also get the added benefit of the Sacrament while you learn (if the homily is good). But Believers fundamentally misunderstands the Mass and thinks it’s a bunch of ritualistic hooey. In his “faith tradition” church is a place to go to “get fed” or “study the Bible” or whatever. Those are fine things, but they don’t even compare to the Mass.
Sir, it is YOU that have the point. I agree with you 100%. I think that Catholics do need to learn their faith. I also think that with that study, they need to learn to defend it. This is one of the reasons that I am so big on study on your own. It is also one of the reasons that I am starting an apologetics group at my parish!
Sadie2723 -
Good points! I have often sat in the pew of Protestent contgregations, and occasionally do to this day, and I am struck by the way the Democracy rules many churchs out there. Twenty years ago, you could not find a curch out there that would have told you abortion was ok…now, you don’t have to look hard to find one. Same goes for things like stem cell research. It took me a little while to figure out why: The congregation is making the rules.Sadie2723 -
I’m going to take you up on this topic because it’s one I have been chewing on myself over the last 6 months or so. It was part of the lightbulb that went off in my head when I had to grapple with why as Evangelicals we were always opposed with the idea of a Pope and with venom I might add.
And after reading Church history and seeing how the Reformation and the Revolutions of Europe were so startlingly close in time frame, it was pretty obvious to me that the spirit of rebellion was rampant in all parts of the culture. Was this a coincidence? And does this rebellion or revulsion against any form of central authority have anything to do with the hatred toward Catholicism in general and the Pope specifically? This forced me to look at things from a different perspective and ask some really hard questions. I even voiced these questions to some family members and friends, and it was like I had blasphemed the high heavens! And yet, no one could argue with the timing of these things or the apparent knee-jerk reaction when confronted with Church Authority. And yet, kingdoms are based on authority, right? And aren’t we as Christians part of a kingdom, and wouldn’t that kingdom be based on all known patterns of kingdoms which were the form of government prescribed by God for both the Israelites and the New Kingdom of Christ?
Hmmm, makes you wonder?
So in essence: Truth is not a democracy. It is an absolute benevolent dictatorship.
I was wondering if you could tell me some of the major reasons why a Protestant, Evangelical, or Fundamentalist converts to the Roman Catholic Church. Thank you!
When we contemplate the blessings of faith even now, as if gazing at a reflection in a mirror, it is as if we already possessed the wonderful things which our faith assures us we shall one day enjoy.48