Why do you feel socialism is bad?

[Scout1441]

How far we have fallen! Catholic Democratic President John F. Kennedy famously stated “Ask not, what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country”.

Modernism rejects this and demands what others may do for it.

Amen, and that is summed up by another Cold War figure:

“We cannot expect the Americans to jump from capitalism to communism, but we can assist their elected leaders in giving Americans small doses of socialism until they suddenly awake to find they live under communism.”Soviet Leader Nikita Khrushchev, 1959

 

[po18guy]

So the fact that unemployment rose massively in Scotland doesnt matter to you?
The fact is that Margaret Thatcher did not care what happened to Scotland or its people.This is a sad fact but she is still the most hated person in Scotland,the very mention of her name is a source of great anger here.
The effects of Thatchers policies are still felt today,the total deprivation that came from her policies are still very evident today.You sit and look at figures saying more Scots own houses now than ever before,the fact that i lived through her time gives me a greater insight than your figures will ever give.

Name a British PM (or anything British) that has not been hated in Scotland…

 

[peary1]

I would argue that the Republican party is not Pro-Life as abortions happened under its administration,yes they made it harder but they didnt make it illegal.
I would ask you to go and check the facts for yourself,people in the US have shorter lives than most Europeans,have higher infant mortality rates,have less physicians per 1000 people.
The biggest problem that i have with US healthcare,is that it puts profit before people. The bottom line is that these companies are profit driven,your interests do not come first,its their profit margin.The more sick you become,the less profit they make from you.

Infant mortality/Death Rates of European Countries (as of 2007):

Portugal: 10.6%; 9.9%
Spain: 10.9%; 9.9%
France: 11.9%; 9.2%
Germany: 8.2%; 9.7%
Netherlands: 10.7%; 8.7%
Italy: 8.5%; 10.5%
Belgium: 10.3%; 10.3%
Czech Rep: 9.0%; 10.6%
Austria: 8.7%; 9.8%
Ireland: 14.4%; 7.8%
Poland: 10.6% 10.5%
Romania: 10.7%; 11.8%
Switzerland: 9.7%; 8.5%
United Kingdom: 10.7%; 10.1%

United States: 14.2%; 8.3%

 

[fish90]

Infant mortality/Death Rates of European Countries (as of 2007):

Portugal: 10.6%; 9.9%
Spain: 10.9%; 9.9%
France: 11.9%; 9.2%
Germany: 8.2%; 9.7%
Netherlands: 10.7%; 8.7%
Italy: 8.5%; 10.5%
Belgium: 10.3%; 10.3%
Czech Rep: 9.0%; 10.6%
Austria: 8.7%; 9.8%
Ireland: 14.4%; 7.8%
Poland: 10.6% 10.5%
Romania: 10.7%; 11.8%
Switzerland: 9.7%; 8.5%
United Kingdom: 10.7%; 10.1%

United States: 14.2%; 8.3%

They count miscarriages differently than the United States, do not forget.

 

[wabrams]

Does shorter life expectancy mean inferior care? I’d bet hospitals on army bases offer very excellent care, yet the U.S. army sees a much higher fatality rate than the rest of the population.
Could it be that what people are doing with their lives effects life expectancy?

Just about every one I know who was in the military, is in the military, or was/is a dependent of someone in the military complains about how awful care is on army bases. This isn’t a recent thing; I’ve heard stories from veterans/depedndets going back to WW2 about bad care.

 

[wabrams]

Infant mortality/Death Rates of European Countries (as of 2007):

Portugal: 10.6%; 9.9%
Spain: 10.9%; 9.9%
France: 11.9%; 9.2%
Germany: 8.2%; 9.7%
Netherlands: 10.7%; 8.7%
Italy: 8.5%; 10.5%
Belgium: 10.3%; 10.3%
Czech Rep: 9.0%; 10.6%
Austria: 8.7%; 9.8%
Ireland: 14.4%; 7.8%
Poland: 10.6% 10.5%
Romania: 10.7%; 11.8%
Switzerland: 9.7%; 8.5%
United Kingdom: 10.7%; 10.1%

United States: 14.2%; 8.3%

They count miscarriages differently than the United States, do not forget.

IIRC, we are the only country that includes miscarriages, premies, AND full term death.

 

[PlipPlop]

Just about every one I know who was in the military, is in the military, or was/is a dependent of someone in the military complains about how awful care is on army bases. This isn’t a recent thing; I’ve heard stories from veterans/depedndets going back to WW2 about bad care.

I have to admit this is true. A lot of people in my family have been in the military, all of them have had to deal with terrible medical practices, and a few of them have lasting health problems because of it. That’s certainly something that needs to be addressed.

However, socialist health care in many countries (Canada, for example) doesn’t mean that the government employs doctors. It provides health insurance, just like Blue Cross Blue Shield or State Farm (in Canada, private companies are done away with; I don’t support this, but I think there does need to be a government-run plan), and that’s all. Government-employed doctors are OK, but they shouldn’t be the only doctors, and the screening process should be incredibly strict.

Also, as much as I hate to admit it, the infant mortality rate usually isn’t all that reliable. You can use it as a general estimation, but be aware that there can be a large margin of error. For instance, Cuba counts any babies that die within 24 hours after delivery as though they were never alive to begin with so their medical services look a lot better.

 

[peary1]

peary1;6088109:

Excuse me,but i said that if you read the bible you will see how Jesus spent much of his life on earth seeking out the poor, the needy and the outcasts of society. He so closely associated with the destitute that he told his disciples that the way they relate to the hungry, the poor and even prisoners is the way he considers them to be relating to him.

**Jesus also sought out the ‘rich’. Who else kept the Church going? As it is today, the foundation for the Church was also assured by the donations of the well-to-do. You make it sound as if those who had money aren’t worthy of salvation, and that God rejects them. If you actually believe that, then you need to rethink your opinion. **

Oh the “death panels” made up by Sarah Palin. The biggest lie of the Year is the award that she won for that. Surely you do not believe that to be true?

H.R. 1 (known as the Recovery and Reinvestment Act), contains a whopping $1.1 billion to fund the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research. The Council is the brain child of former Health and Human Services Secretary Nominee Tom Daschle.

Daschle’s stated purpose for creating the Council is to empower an unelected bureaucracy to make the hard decisions about health care rationing. The end result is to slow costly medical advancement and consumption. Daschle argues that Americans ought to be more like Europeans who passively accept “hopeless diagnoses.”

**Daschle himself came right out and said that health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them.

On this Council is Rahm Emanuel’s physican-brother Ezekiel who blatantly says that 25-year-olds require very few medical services. If they are to get the lion’s share of the treatment, then those 65 and over can expect very little care. Dr. Emanuel’s views on saving money on medical care are simple: don’t provide any medical care. The loosely worded provisions in H.R 1 give him and his Council increasing power to push such recommendations.**

**Obama’s Regulatory ‘Czar’ Cass Sunstein has also publically stated that he believes in statistical methods that give preference to what the government rates as “quality-adjusted life years.” Meaning, the government decides whether a person’s life is worth living. If the government decides the life is not worth living, it is the individual’s duty to die to free up welfare payments for the young and productive. He even WROTE that in his study *Lives, Life-Years and Willingness to Pay ***for the AEI-Brookings Joint Center for Regulatory Studies. You can find it here:

[www.reg-markets.org/admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffiles/phprW.pdf

**May I remind you that it was it was Obama himself, in answer to a question on his ABC News infomercial, who said that payment determination cannot be influenced by a person’s spirit and “that at least we (the Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research) can let doctors know and your mom know that…this isn’t going to help. Maybe you’re better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller.”

So, maybe Palin called it a “death panel” but, in reality, the props are already in place for the rationing of healthcare. If you don’t believe it, then you are more gullible than you lead me to believe.**](www.reg-markets.org/admin/authorpdfs/redirect-safely.php?fname=../pdffiles/phprW.pdf)

 

[tjm190]

Just about every one I know who was in the military, is in the military, or was/is a dependent of someone in the military complains about how awful care is on army bases. This isn’t a recent thing; I’ve heard stories from veterans/depedndets going back to WW2 about bad care.

In any event the point is it would be insane to attribute a higher fatality rate in the U.S. army to the quality of care.

 

[wabrams]

In any event the point is it would be insane to attribute a higher fatality rate in the U.S. army to the quality of care.

I don’t know about that. One of my co-workers was a CT Tech in the army and saw more botched operations and delayed care than he has working in civilian hospitals; same with a lot of the nurses around here. That observation is one I hear a lot from current military/dependents & former army.

 

[tjm190]

I don’t know about that. One of my co-workers was a CT Tech in the army and saw more botched operations and delayed care than he has working in civilian hospitals; same with a lot of the nurses around here. That observation is one I hear a lot from current military/dependents & former army.

What would you is a bigger factor, the fact that they get shot at or the fact that their doctors aren’t of the same quality?

 

[Hesychios]

Socialism and communism are not the same …

This is true.

 

[wabrams]

What would you is a bigger factor, the fact that they get shot at or the fact that their doctors aren’t of the same quality?

In a time of war, getting shot would be the biggest factor. But considering most of the stories I hear are from the last 25 years and no war up until 2001 lasted more than a few months, I think it would be safe to say the quality of care.

 

[Hesychios]

Part of the discussion about “feel socialism is bad” is the definition of socialism. If we cannot agree on the definition, then the whole discussion falls apart.

This is very true.

Most USA Americans really have very little idea what socialism actually is. Nor do they understand that their own country has a mixed economy, which already includes many socialist concepts.

Like a fish in water does not realize it is in water.

Michael

 

[tjm190]

In a time of war, getting shot would be the biggest factor. But considering most of the stories I hear are from the last 25 years and no war up until 2001 lasted more than a few months, I think it would be safe to say the quality of care.

The point was that just because two populations have varying life expectancies, we can not infer that one has a better health care system than the other. Other factors can be at play- for American’s in Iraq, it’s the bullets, the bombs, and the beheadings.
For Americans in America, it’s the eating.

 

[Lutheranteach]

Keep in mind capitalism is the only socio-economic system that contains NO moral aspect.

 

[nsper7]

It’s interesting how it appears some of the same people who lambast VA/military medical care may support socialized medicine. The VA and military are an example of government-run health care.

And government rarely does things as well as the private sector, because:

1. They regulate themselves and answer to no one really (I mean the government as a whole, obviously there is a hierarchy within it, but in the end, the government is self-regulated since they have the sole power of enforcement)
2. They do not have to worry about dissatisfied customers (since they do not have to worry about profits and can act as a monopoly at will, they have little incentive to provide good customer service)

 

[peary1]

Keep in mind capitalism is the only socio-economic system that contains NO moral aspect.

Actually, that is not really true. It is discussed in Dinesh D’Sousa’s book *The Virtue of Prosperity. * It’s really a good read. And a very good critique of the book is found here:

objectivistcenter.org/cth–225-The_Morality_Capitalism.aspx

In my own opinion, however, the ‘moral’ aspect is something that needs to be injected into a free market system.

 

[nsper7]

In my own opinion, however, the ‘moral’ aspect is something that needs to be injected into a free market system.

And how do you go about doing that? Really, the only way to make a system more ‘moral’ is to have a society made up of moral individuals.

 

[Hesychios]

It’s interesting how it appears some of the same people who lambast VA/military medical care may support socialized medicine. The VA and military are an example of government-run health care.

This of course assumes that the service level at the VA and Military hospitals is attributable to the fact that the government runs it. The government actually runs a lot of things very well, but in socialist systems an organization does not necessarily have to be run by a government agency, it does have to obey the law. An organization can be independent of government and function properly, while being publicly owned and collecting it’s own revenue.

In fact the military in the USA has no independent sources of income, it must by law (probably wisely) be dependent upon the taxpayers level of generosity, and if they do not like to pay taxes the budget will suffer somewhere.