Why have Evangelicals allied themselves with Israel & Zionists?

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JSmitty2005:
I’m not sure exactly what you mean by this, but both of those are universally binding infallible documents of the Church.
But who says **your **interpretation of those statements is precisely what they mean? And since doctrinal understanding develops (something the church has taught for centuries) who are you to say that your personal understanding of these statements is correct?
 
Church Militant:
But who says **your **interpretation of those statements is precisely what they mean? And since doctrinal understanding develops (something the church has taught for centuries) who are you to say that your personal understanding of these statements is correct?
C’mon, now, Church Militant, you know as well as I that the Church does not leave much room for interpretation in Her pronouncements (prior to V2 anyways :rolleyes: ). The following statement was CONDEMNED:

“The Church ought to be separated from the State, and the State from the Church.”
That sounds pretty clear to me, but I’m sure some modernists have tried to explain it away with some sort of fanciful “interpretation.” Furthermore, development does occur but to say that such a statement developed to the point of separation of Church and state would be, **not ** doctrinal development, but doctrinal *change * which the Church (supposedly) does not do.
 
Church Militant:
Very well said!

My problem with the whole idea that there is a Biblical reason to be Zionist is that the whole thing is based upon “rapture theology” which is drastically unBibical anyway.

As Smitty said I too would like to see the passages that Evangelicals/Fundamentalists offer to support their political agenda.

Has anyone considered that the politcal climate today of neo-Cons who mix their strange theologies with politics in some ways parallel the temporal power conflicts that the Catholic Church endured many centuries ago and resulted in the Crusades.(As well as many other problems and abuses.) :ehh: :hmmm:
READ IT AND WEEP!!! ITS IN EZEKIEL CHAPTER 36

It is clearly foretold by the ancient prophet Ezekiel. He wrote this at the time of the Babylonian captivity. This is his prophecy for the Jewish people concerning latter days.

You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people and I will be your God.’

"For I will take you out of the nation; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back to your own land… I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you… to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. You will live in the land I gave your forefathers; you will be my people and I will be your God. I will save you from all your uncleanness.

"I will call for the grain and make it plentiful… I will increase the fruit of the trees and the crops of the field, so that you will no longer suffer disgrace among the nations because of famine…

"This is what the Sovereign Jehovah says, ‘On the day I cleanse you from all your sins, I will resettle your towns, and the ruins will be rebuilt. The desolate land will be cultivated instead of lying desolate in the sight of all who pass through it. They will say, "This land that was laid waste has become like the garden of Eden; the cities that were lying in ruins, desolate and destroyed, are now fortified and inhabited.’

“Then the nations around you that remain will know that I, Jehovah, have rebuilt what was destroyed and have replanted what was desolate. I, Jehovah, have spoken, and I will do it.”
 
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Alfie:
It is clearly foretold by the ancient prophet Ezekiel. He wrote this at the time of the Babylonian captivity. This is his prophecy for the Jewish people concerning latter days.
From what I’ve heard, the Babylonian captivity ended some 2500+ years ago. Don’t you think that this emancipation might be what Ezekiel was referring to?
 
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JSmitty2005:
From what I’ve heard, the Babylonian captivity ended some 2500+ years ago. Don’t you think that this emancipation might be what Ezekiel was referring to?
You need to read all of Ezekiel 36

In 586 BC the Jews were deported to Babylon, yet returned after seventy years to rebuild their nation. They were again dispersed by the Romans in 70 AD.

Therefore thus says the Lord God; "Surely I have spoken in My burning jealousy against the rest of the nations and against all Edom, who gave My land to themselves as a posession, with whole-hearted joy and spiteful minds, in order to plunder its open country.
 
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Alfie:
You need to read all of Ezekiel 36

In 586 BC the Jews were deported to Babylon, yet returned after seventy years to rebuild their nation. They were again dispersed by the Romans in 70 AD.

Therefore thus says the Lord God; "Surely I have spoken in My burning jealousy against the rest of the nations and against all Edom, who gave My land to themselves as a posession, with whole-hearted joy and spiteful minds, in order to plunder its open country.
If that’s your reading of Ezekial, it looks like God was wrong from 70 AD all the way until 1948. And even now, it’s certainly not enjoyed with “whole hearted joy”…so I think you might want to rethink your interpretation.
 
Church Militant:
Very well said!

My problem with the whole idea that there is a Biblical reason to be Zionist is that the whole thing is based upon “rapture theology” which is drastically unBibical anyway.

As Smitty said I too would like to see the passages that Evangelicals/Fundamentalists offer to support their political agenda.

Has anyone considered that the politcal climate today of neo-Cons who mix their strange theologies with politics in some ways parallel the temporal power conflicts that the Catholic Church endured many centuries ago and resulted in the Crusades.(As well as many other problems and abuses.) :ehh: :hmmm:
By the way do you have a problem with Syria occupying Lebanon? I never hear the media complain about it.
 
Alfie, I’m sorry, but this interpretation is totally alien to all of Christian history. It was invented in the 20th century, and as such, must be rejected (along with all of the other novelties like ecumenism).
 
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Alfie:
By the way do you have a problem with Syria occupying Lebanon? I never hear the media complain about it.
What has this to do with anything?
 
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BillyT92679:
Actually, Palestinian Christians are mostly Orthodox Christians, then Catholics, then Protestants.
Of the 20 million Iraqi citizens, some one million are Christians. Of these, 80% are Catholics belonging to either the Chaldean or Latin Rites. Granted, that’s only Iraq, but I’m guessing that similar statistics are likely for the majority of the Holy Land. Feel free to correct me.
 
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JSmitty2005:
Why have Evangelicals allied themselves so closely with the Zionist Jews? I don’t understand this. Christians in the Holy Land have more favorable views of Muslims than they do Jews, so why do these American Christians feel so drawn to them? :confused:
I guess in addition to this, I should ask: “Why has the Church traditionally had an unfavorable view of Zionism? Has this changed? If so, WHY?!”
 
Now the crusades are bad again?:confused: Guess you have to call a decent span of Catholic history bad as the popes were still trying to take back the Holy Land in the time of Luther.

I recommend a good dose of Hillare Belloc to square you up on all things Muslim.😉 He did an outstanding job of predicting the current state of affairs of Islam. Even from England.
 
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Brian_C:
Now the crusades are bad again?:confused: Guess you have to call a decent span of Catholic history bad as the popes were still trying to take back the Holy Land in the time of Luther.

I recommend a good dose of Hillare Belloc to square you up on all things Muslim.😉 He did an outstanding job of predicting the current state of affairs of Islam. Even from England.
The Crusades were glorious! Belloc also wrote a book simply called “Jews.” Have you read it? I’m thinking about getting it.
 
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JSmitty2005:
Of the 20 million Iraqi citizens, some one million are Christians. Of these, 80% are Catholics belonging to either the Chaldean or Latin Rites. Granted, that’s only Iraq, but I’m guessing that similar statistics are likely for the majority of the Holy Land. Feel free to correct me.
Iraq, remember, is in a different state with the Church. The Assyrian Church of the East is not Eastern Orthodox, but, rather, Oriental Orthodox, they only accept the first 4 Ecumenical Councils, and were at odds with both the Latins and the Byzantines. The Chaldean Catholics reentered Communion with Rome later.

The region of Palestine was under the sphere of influence of the Antiochene Christians. Most of the Antiochene are Orthodox, some are Melkite Catholic. There are some Maronites Catholics from Lebanon in the north
 
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JSmitty2005:
Belloc also wrote a book simply called “Jews.” Have you read it? I’m thinking about getting it.
Uh oh…no!

I got the 3 book set from the CA shop. The Great Heresies, How the Reformation Happened, and The Crusades. I’ve read the first and am 1/3 thru the second.
 
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Brian_C:
Uh oh…no!

I got the 3 book set from the CA shop. The Great Heresies, How the Reformation Happened, and The Crusades. I’ve read the first and am 1/3 thru the second.
It can be found here.
 
Church Militant:
Great! Just what I wanted …something that will support the SSPX.
It was written by Hilaire Belloc. It is not supportive of the SSPX in any way considering that they did not exist at that time! I’m looking forward to reading it to see whether or not the Church has changed in regard to the Jewish question.
 
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