Why is Catholic Bashing soooo popular?

[Cinette]

Hello Everybody!

I have a wonderful message for you all but it has some photographs that go along with it.

If you wish to receive this special message you can PM me your email addresses. I promise I will only send that message and not abuse it and send you more.

Cheers
Cinette

 

[LSK]

I’m an evangelical and that’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately…

Here are evangelicals, who believe that you are saved by faith alone, essentially bigoted against catholics, who believe (as I understand it) that even with faith in Christ, salvation is earned.

so okay, it seems like CATHOLICS would be taking the initiative to confront evangelicals, right? Because if evangelicals are wrong, they may have some explaining to do.

but no, it’s evangelicals who are all proud of being right and wanting to tell catholics they’re wrong. By our own definition, catholics are saved because they’re relying on christ, they’re just doing harmless, unnecessary extra works. It’s not the catholics who are really at risk, right? I realize that I’m stretching here, but I find myself asking, what’s the motivation for being anti-catholic? Why would anybody who feels saved feel threatened by catholics?

…on another tangent completely, have you considered HOLLYWOOD?? I mean, most people learn everything they know about catholicism from the totally over-the-top stuff they see in movies. Compare how many negative or creepy portrayals of some element of catholicism you see, to the positive images. Who wouldn’t be leery of catholicism??

What a great answer and thank you for being so respectful. I remember the first time I was ‘confronted’ by a ‘once save, always saved’ Christian who got in my face and said, “What if you’re WRONG?”. When I answered, “Well, if I am wrong it doesn’t matter since I believe and accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. But if YOU’RE wrong, then you are gonna have some 's’plaining to do when you are standing in front of Jesus Christ.”

She refuses to speak to me now. She won’t let her children play with ‘mine’ (neice and nephew I am raising) and she gets angry when her husband does something to help my 87 year old mother, like carry in groceries for her while I am at work. I know she is not indicative of all evangelicals, just like bad Catholics do not represent all Catholics, but it is a puzzlement…

 

[Katrina5]

I am a sucker for conversion stories I love Lead Kindly Light, Rome Sweet Home, Honey from the Rock and Surprised by Triuth.

I love Fr Neuhaus’s preface to Lead Kindly Light.

I was actually thinking of starting a thread on one’s favourite conversion story.

Incidentally, has anyone heard of protestant reverts?

My guess of what a protestant revert is would be a Baptist who backslid, then got redunked.
I have one sister who was raised Catholic, left so she could try to get along better with her Pentecostal Mother in Law, and has been in just about every denomination there is. She jokingly calls this “being ecumenical”. With every switch, she got saved and baptised again.
When I asked her once why she left the Catholic Church, she said, “I got Saved”. Through the years, she has argued with me alternating with “We’ll be surprised when we get to heaven and see that there are no denominations in heaven.” to “Catholics aren’t Saved.” (She must have slept through Catechism class.) And why wasn’t her first baptism in the Catholic Church good enough? “…I believe in one baptism…”
I get tired of arguing with her, especially when she starts driving demons out of me, and think to myself, All those other baptisms, especially the really hold-em-under-water ones, must have washed away her first one!
I have to think like that because it is so frustrating to talk to her. She usually has a “crush” on the pastor and when they leave, she moves on.
Do start that conversion thread. I’m thinking of doing a Faith Journey workshop at my parish. We all have one, even we cradle Catholics. It’s a series of conversions, changes, and growing. We are all called to conversion-- It’s the Year of St Paul.
I like Fr Neuhaus’s story also, and have Surprized by Truth 1,2, and 3. I’ll have to find Honey from the Rock.

 

[Katrina5]

To bendictus2,
I know I could find this somewhere, but you probably have it at your fingertips.
What was it that Bishop Sheen said about people who think they hate the Catholic Church, but they really hate what they think is the Catholic Church? (Maybe that is it)
It would apply so well here. Certain posters here seem reluctant to look into History.
In Indianapolis, we have four churches which have gone back to their complete names, St John the Evangelist, St Mark the Evangelist, St Luke the Evangelist, and St Matthew the Evangelist. I think it was in response to the belief that Catholics don’t “evangelize”. We also have several programs for evangelism, talking to people on the Canal and even going door to door.
In my work with St Vincent DePaul, some of our clients would ask You mean you guys are Catholic? (We aren’t pushy. We don’t make them come to church to get ‘stuff’) But we kindly invite them, and pray, if they want us to.
How did I get off on this? Oh, dear. I hope I haven’t unthreaded the thread.

 

[Katrina5]

Hello Everybody!

I have a wonderful message for you all but it has some photographs that go along with it.

If you wish to receive this special message you can PM me your email addresses. I promise I will only send that message and not abuse it and send you more.

Cheers
Cinette

Cinette, how do I PM my email address?
Katrina

 

[Cinette]

Cinette, how do I PM my email address?
Katrina

You click on my name at the top left hand corner of my posting. A box will appear and one of the prompts is send Private message - click on that and follow thru - its easy

Ciao
Cinette

 

[twb1621]

I am a sucker for conversion stories I love Lead Kindly Light, Rome Sweet Home, Honey from the Rock and Surprised by Triuth.

I love Fr Neuhaus’s preface to Lead Kindly Light.

I was actually thinking of starting a thread on one’s favourite conversion story.

Incidentally, has anyone heard of protestant reverts?

that thread would be a good idea Ben, start it if you didn’t yet and I’ll join in as it goes.

 

[Peccavi]

This thread seems to have meandered way way off the point. But as for me I’m more influenced by Evelyn Waugh - Vile bodies etc. (Catholic angst ) and the writings of Cardinal John Henry Newman (an opponent of the doctrine of Papal Infalibility as understood by many Catholics )

 

[Katrina5]

This thread seems to have meandered way way off the point. But as for me I’m more influenced by Evelyn Waugh - Vile bodies etc. (Catholic angst ) and the writings of Cardinal John Henry Newman (an opponent of the doctrine of Papal Infalibility as understood by many Catholics )

This is probably “off thread”, but can you explain the last sentence about Papal Infalibility? I have been taught that it only applies to matters of Faith and Doctrine.
Thanks.
PS Nice to have someone from UK.

 

[twb1621]

This thread seems to have meandered way way off the point. But as for me I’m more influenced by Evelyn Waugh - Vile bodies etc. (Catholic angst ) and the writings of Cardinal John Henry Newman (an opponent of the doctrine of Papal Infalibility as understood by many Catholics )

why lapsed?

 

[Peccavi]

As Gandhi observed " I Love Christ but I don’t love Christians "- too many forget the second great commandment (or manage to bend it) - too many forget ‘God so loved the World’(an unqualified love of the World as it is) - too much ceremony, too much law, too much pomp and circumstance, too much medievalism, too little love…and yet I cannot turn to protestantism and its holier-than-thou bible-black social conservative tub thumping.
Love the mass, not sure about the pious or those who’ve got the whole thing sown up in dogmatics !
Live in hope of finding some fellow Catholic Vat-II junkies out there who might just rope me in again.
(PS still go to confession and mass, but can’t claim to be a good Catholic when all the theologians I read are either Kung, or Schillebeeckx, de Chardin , or worse, Bonhoeffer, Tillich, Karl Barth !! As the priest tells me in confession I got too much original sin in me - I just want to keep eating of that tree of knowledge! )

 

[sauce]

From the caliber of posts I’ve been reading on this site, I must say that Catholics are the whole package. The muscle between the ears is quite evident.

Look, the only thing worth attacking is “the truth.” So Catholics get attacked with a vengeance. It’s a waste of time for the attacker to attack anyone else. So Catholics are prime targets. There’s an underlying need for the attacker to be right, but since they are irresistibly drawn to the truth it makes sense to me that they would come after us. I try to be prepared though. Being well read and able to reason isn’t bad either.

Slightly unrelated and not exactly the same, but pretty close: Look at how the media went after Sarah Palin. Why was she worth attacking? Because she was not “nothing.” She was a major threat.

Satan always shows his tail.

 

[benedictus2]

To bendictus2,
I know I could find this somewhere, but you probably have it at your fingertips.
What was it that Bishop Sheen said about people who think they hate the Catholic Church, but they really hate what they think is the Catholic Church? (Maybe that is it)
It would apply so well here. Certain posters here seem reluctant to look into History.
In Indianapolis, we have four churches which have gone back to their complete names, St John the Evangelist, St Mark the Evangelist, St Luke the Evangelist, and St Matthew the Evangelist. I think it was in response to the belief that Catholics don’t “evangelize”. We also have several programs for evangelism, talking to people on the Canal and even going door to door.
In my work with St Vincent DePaul, some of our clients would ask You mean you guys are Catholic? (We aren’t pushy. We don’t make them come to church to get ‘stuff’) But we kindly invite them, and pray, if they want us to.
How did I get off on this? Oh, dear. I hope I haven’t unthreaded the thread.

“There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Church, which is, of course, quite a different thing”. - Fulton Sheen

It is very telling that people who convert do so after extensive studying and reading (that is of course barring those who have had mystical experiences like Alphonse Ratisbone).

So what does that say about the Catholic Faith? Perhaps the Faith of the rational and the well-informed?

 

[benedictus2]

Satan always shows his tail.

Discernment, discernment, discernment. That is what I think happened with the “reformation”. The failure to discern the tail.

 

[benedictus2]

As Gandhi observed " I Love Christ but I don’t love Christians "- too many forget the second great commandment (or manage to bend it) - too many forget ‘God so loved the World’(an unqualified love of the World as it is) - too much ceremony, too much law, too much pomp and circumstance, too much medievalism, too little love…and yet I cannot turn to protestantism and its holier-than-thou bible-black social conservative tub thumping.
Love the mass, not sure about the pious or those who’ve got the whole thing sown up in dogmatics

Know what, these same arguments have troubled a lot of protestant converts before their conversion. Yet, once they started digging, they found out it is NO TOO MUCH law, not TOO MUCH ceremony, NOT TOO MUCH pomp.

If you can, get a hold of Suprised by Truth (the first volume). There is an account there by a lady (can’t remember her name) when she realized that the ceremony as you call it is actually very much Bible based. The book of revelations in fact makes much more sense when we realize that it is talking about the Mass. The Mass is heaven on earth as Scott Hahn explained in his book The Lamb’s Supper. Get that one too if you can.

 

[twb1621]

As Gandhi observed " I Love Christ but I don’t love Christians "- too many forget the second great commandment (or manage to bend it) - too many forget ‘God so loved the World’(an unqualified love of the World as it is) - too much ceremony, too much law, too much pomp and circumstance, too much medievalism, too little love…and yet I cannot turn to protestantism and its holier-than-thou bible-black social conservative tub thumping.
Love the mass, not sure about the pious or those who’ve got the whole thing sown up in dogmatics !
Live in hope of finding some fellow Catholic Vat-II junkies out there who might just rope me in again.
(PS still go to confession and mass, but can’t claim to be a good Catholic when all the theologians I read are either Kung, or Schillebeeckx, de Chardin , or worse, Bonhoeffer, Tillich, Karl Barth !! As the priest tells me in confession I got too much original sin in me - I just want to keep eating of that tree of knowledge! )

you sound like me many years ago… You got to be looking for it if you want to find it though. The ruth I mean.

 

[twb1621]

From the caliber of posts I’ve been reading on this site, I must say that Catholics are the whole package. The muscle between the ears is quite evident.

Look, the only thing worth attacking is “the truth.” So Catholics get attacked with a vengeance. It’s a waste of time for the attacker to attack anyone else. So Catholics are prime targets. There’s an underlying need for the attacker to be right, but since they are irresistibly drawn to the truth it makes sense to me that they would come after us. I try to be prepared though. Being well read and able to reason isn’t bad either.

Slightly unrelated and not exactly the same, but pretty close: Look at how the media went after Sarah Palin. Why was she worth attacking? Because she was not “nothing.” She was a major threat.

Satan always shows his tail.

Ah, Satan, you hit the nail on the head there. Satan has been at war with the Church for more than 2000 years but some don’t realize how far back it goes. The original church so to speak was Adam and Eve in their love of god and he (satan) started right away on them. After Jesus established His Church, it’s His Church again Satan want to bring down. that Satan is a busy little devil.

 

[yellowbicycle]

I wanted to add something else about ‘Catholic-bashing’.
Someone had asked what was meant by bashing. A fair question.
I have been spit on, called a bigot, a homophobe, a child molestor, and other names which are unsuitable for publication.
What was I doing when these things were said to me? Nothing out of the ordinary…standing in line, having a cocktail at a party, playing Scrabble. Rough town I guess, eh?
And yes, Catholics certainly take less heat than Mormons and scientologists and the like.
And lastly, I think another poster had hit it on the head when they said that the catholics don’t allow certain things that people want to do. This reasoning for bashing the church I always found the most interesting.
Another poster had mentioned that the reason people are so against the church is because the Catholic Church won’t allow them (the people who bash the church, not the poster) to do certain things. Well, that doesn’t stop anyone else, so it shouldn’t stop you! Want to get high and have sex with a prostitute? Okay. Want to steal eggs from an orphanage? Okay. Even if you just want to sass back at your parents. Okay. Really, you can. You can sin ALL YOU WANT! That’s what’s so great about it! The church just says you shouldn’t, because there will be consequences. And the church really doesn’t think you’ll like those consequences. But then, if you think the church is bogus, you shouldn’t care one lick what they say about anything, right?
(Again, I am not referring to the poser on this, who I am sure is a very lovely person and doesn’t steal eggs from orphanages.)

 

[twb1621]

I wanted to add something else about ‘Catholic-bashing’.
Someone had asked what was meant by bashing. A fair question.
I have been spit on, called a bigot, a homophobe, a child molestor, and other names which are unsuitable for publication.
What was I doing when these things were said to me? Nothing out of the ordinary…standing in line, having a cocktail at a party, playing Scrabble. Rough town I guess, eh?
And yes, Catholics certainly take less heat than Mormons and scientologists and the like. We DO?
And lastly, I think another poster had hit it on the head when they said that the catholics don’t allow certain things that people want to do. This reasoning for bashing the church I always found the most interesting.
Another poster had mentioned that the reason people are so against the church is because the Catholic Church won’t allow them (the people who bash the church, not the poster) to do certain things. Well, that doesn’t stop anyone else, so it shouldn’t stop you! Want to get high and have sex with a prostitute? Okay. Want to steal eggs from an orphanage? Okay. Even if you just want to sass back at your parents. Okay. Really, you can. You can sin ALL YOU WANT! That’s what’s so great about it! The church just says you shouldn’t, because there will be consequences. And the church really doesn’t think you’ll like those consequences. But then, if you think the church is bogus, you shouldn’t care one lick what they say about anything, right?
(Again, I am not referring to the poser on this, who I am sure is a very lovely person and doesn’t steal eggs from orphanages.)

 

[sauce]

Benedictus2,

I am in total agreement. Yet discernment has a lot to do with insight and awareness. I always look at people’s behavior. Or what it is they seem to be doing when they challenge you or attack.

Quite frankly, there’s a lot of cape waving going on. You know what I mean: they’re saying things which are really a distraction away form their behavior: kind of like “look over here, look over here.”
But they don’t want you to detect their intention or “dark need.”

That’s Satan’s tail.