Why is the Catholic Church hated so much?

[JustaServant]

Heb. 5:6,10; 6:20; 7:15,17 - these verses show that Jesus restores the father-son priesthood after Melchizedek. Jesus is the new priest and King of Jerusalem and feeds the new children of Abraham with His body and blood. This means that His eternal sacrifice is offered in the same manner as the bread and wine offered by Melchizedek in Gen. 14:18. But the bread and wine that Jesus offers is different, just as the Passover Lamb of the New Covenant is different. The bread and wine become His body and blood by the overshadowing of the Holy Spirit.

Heb. 4:3 – God’s works were finished from the foundation of the world. This means that God’s works, including Christ’s sacrifice (the single act that secured the redemption of our souls and bodies), are forever present in eternity. Jesus’ suffering is over and done with (because suffering was earthly and temporal), but His sacrifice is eternal, because His priesthood is eternal (His victimized state was only temporal).

Heb. 4:14 – Jesus the Sacrifice passes through the heavens by the glory cloud of God, just like the sacrifices of Solomon were taken up into heaven by the glory cloud of God in 2 Chron. 7:1. See also Mark 16:19; Luke 24:51; and Acts 1:10.

Heb. 7:24 – Jesus holds His priesthood is forever because He continues forever, so His sacrificial offering is forever. He continues to offer His body and blood to us because He is forever our High Priest.

Heb. 8:2 - Jesus is a minister in the sanctuary offering up (present tense) His eternal sacrifice to the Father which is perfected in heaven. This is the same sanctuary that we enter with confidence by the blood of Jesus as written in Heb. 10:19. See also Heb. 12:22-24.

Heb. 8:3 - as High Priest, it is necessary for Jesus to have something to offer. What is Jesus offering in heaven? As eternal Priest, He offers the eternal sacrifice of His body and blood.

Heb. 8:6; 9:15; cf. Heb. 12:22-24; 13:20-21 - the covenant Jesus mediates (present tense) is better than the Old covenant. The covenant He mediates is the covenant of His body and blood which He offers in the Eucharist. See Matt. 26:26-28; Mark. 14:22,24; Luke 22;19-20; 1 Cor. 11:24-25 - which is the only time Jesus uses the word “covenant” (which is the offering of His body and blood).

Heb. 9:12 – Jesus enters into heaven, the Holy Place, taking His own blood. How can this be? He wasn’t bleeding after the resurrection. This is because He enters into the heavenly sanctuary to mediate the covenant of His body and blood by eternally offering it to the Father. This offering is made present to us in the same manner as Melchizedek’s offering, under the appearance of bread and wine.

Heb. 9:14 - the blood of Christ offered in heaven purifies (present tense) our consciences from dead works to serve the living God. Christ’s offering is ongoing.

Heb. 9:22 – blood is indeed required for the remission of sin. Jesus’ blood was shed once, but it is continually offered to the Father. This is why Jesus takes His blood, which was shed once and for all, into heaven. Heb. 9:12.

Heb. 9:23 – Jesus’ sacrifice, which is presented eternally to the Father in heaven, is described as “sacrifices” (in the plural) in the context of its re-presentation on earth (the author first writes about the earthly sacrifices of animals, and then the earthly offerings of Jesus Christ’s eternal sacrifice).

Heb. 9:26 – Jesus’ once and for all appearance into heaven to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself shows that Jesus’ presence in heaven and His sacrifice are inseparable. This also shows that “once for all,” which refers to Jesus’ appearance in heaven, means perpetual (it does not, and cannot mean, “over and done with” because Jesus is in heaven for eternity). “Once for all” also refers to Jesus’ suffering and death (Heb. 7:27; 9:12,26;10:10-14). But “once for all” never refers to Jesus’ sacrifice, which is eternally presented to the Father. This sacrifice is the Mal. 1:11 pure offering made present in every place from the rising of the sun to its setting in the Eucharist offered in the same manner as the Melchizedek offering.

Heb. 10:19 - we have confidence to enter the sanctuary by the blood of Jesus on earth in the Eucharistic liturgy, which is the heavenly sanctuary where Jesus’ offering is presented to God in Heb. 8:2.

Heb. 10:22 - our hearts and bodies are (not were) washed clean by the action of Jesus’ perpetual priesthood in heaven.

Heb. 13:10 – the author writes that we have an altar from which those who serve the tent have no right to eat. This altar is the heavenly altar at which Jesus presides as Priest before the Father, eternally offering His body and blood on our behalf. See. Mal. 1:7,12; Lev. 24:7; Ez. 41:22; 44:16; Rev. 5:6; 6:9; 9:13; 11:1; 16:7.

Heb. 13:20-21 - Jesus died once, but His blood of the eternal covenant is eternally offered to equip us (present tense) with everything good that we may do God’s will.

Heb. 13:8 - this is because Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. While His suffering was temporal (because bodily pain is temporal), Jesus and His sacrifice are eternal (because redemption, salvation, and the mediation of the New covenant are eternal).

Heb. 13:15 – the letter concludes with an instruction to continually offer up, through Christ, a sacrifice of praise to God. The phrase “sacrifice of praise” refers to the “toda” animal sacrifices that had to be consumed. See, for example, Lev. 7:12-15; 22:29-30.

 

[newcreation2009]

Newcreation…what kind of church do you belong to anyway?

Without putting your righteousness above and against the Catholic Church, you lose alot of air.

Take the Catholic Church out of the picture.

Now go back to Scripture and just try to read it without the Catholic Church…just the Holy Spirit.

KG,
I do read Scripture every day, without the Catholic church. The Holy Spirit is in me. What’s your point? I am righteous only because of Jesus’ sacrifice and my acknowledging Him as my Lord & Savior. I am NOT righteous on my own merit! No, without Jesus Christ I am a lost wretch. Thank God that His blood has washed me clean of my sins, as it has washed clean all those saints who believe in Christ as the Truth, the Way and the Life!! Christ is the head of the church and I look to Him and Him alone for my salvation! His will for my life here on earth is found in Matthew 28:16…

Blessings,
Tim

 

[newcreation2009]

No offense,but even the Devil quoted scripture…so quoating scripture all day does not mean you are correct in your interpretation. My advice: Look up the term exegesis.

Hermaneutics, exegesis…I know…but what confuses me is how you know that Satan quoted Scripture, but that you don’t know, or maybe you just forgot, that he did it while tempting Jesus. How or in what way am I tempting anyone on this site to turn AWAY from God, or to trust in me to give them anything, or to look to me for salvation, prosperity, wealth, etc.? Your “argument” doesn’t hold water. Try again.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

First, I want to thank Eric for giving me so much rope, and no I am NOT being sarcastic about that. Eric has given me 2 infractions already (or I guess I should say I ‘earned’ them) and I do appreciate his allowing me to continue. I am trying to be as respectful as possible, for whatever that’s worth. Secondly, I don’t even want to ‘go there’ as far as the Eucharist is concerned, but I will quote Scripture, as that is what seems to be the reason for my being allowed to continue on here. So, here, in His own words…:

Romans 6:9-11
9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
10 The death he died, he died to sin ONCE FOR ALL; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 7:26-27
26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.
27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins ONCE FOR ALL when he offered himself.

Hebrews 9:11-13
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.
12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place ONCE FOR ALL by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.
13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.

Blessings,
Tim

Ok… So, how does this refute the Eucharist?

That is, how do those passages refute the Catholic doctrine of the Eucharist?

Rules:

1. You must answer according to what the Catholic doctrine states.
2. You cannot argue against what you THINK the doctrine states.
3. If somebody corrects your misconceptions on Catholic doctrine, you must conform your argument to what Catholics know is the Eucharist.
4. If you insist that you know better than Catholics about Catholic doctrine, then we have every right to consider you “anti-Catholic”.

If you can follow these simple rules (more like guidelines), then we can have a reasonable discussion. Unlike your previous responses.

 

[newcreation2009]

Well done. However, right now, not in the future (Revelation), Jesus SITS at the right hand of the father. The Jewish priest’s sacrifice of animals, grain, etc., could only atone for sins. Meaning, it didn’t get rid of the sins, it just covered them up. SO, the priest, since he had to continually atone for sins, could never sit down because his work was never done. Jesus, our last and most perfect priest, sacrificed the perfect “Lamb”, Himself, for our sins and washed them clean, ‘Once for all’, and He can now rest (Sit) at the right hand of the Father.

Blessings,
Tim

 

[newcreation2009]

I didn’t say anything about refuting any doctrine. I am simply providing Scripture. You all know that I believe Sola Scriptura, so there is no surprises. If you think that the Scripture is refuting something, they’re not my words, but His.

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Well done. However, right now, not in the future (Revelation), Jesus SITS at the right hand of the father. The Jewish priest’s sacrifice of animals, grain, etc., could only atone for sins. Meaning, it didn’t get rid of the sins, it just covered them up. SO, the priest, since he had to continually atone for sins, could never sit down because his work was never done. Jesus, our last and most perfect priest, sacrificed the perfect “Lamb”, Himself, for our sins and washed them clean, ‘Once for all’, and He can now rest (Sit) at the right hand of the Father.

Blessings,
Tim

That’s a very convenient belief. Sounds more Baptist. Church of Christ Christians know they can fall away from God again. I’m sorry you’ve been duped into accepting this very superficial view of God.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

First, I want to thank Eric for giving me so much rope, and no I am NOT being sarcastic about that. Eric has given me 2 infractions already (or I guess I should say I ‘earned’ them) and I do appreciate his allowing me to continue. I am trying to be as respectful as possible, for whatever that’s worth. Secondly, I don’t even want to ‘go there’ as far as the Eucharist is concerned, but I will quote Scripture, as that is what seems to be the reason for my being allowed to continue on here. So, here, in His own words…:

Romans 6:9-11
9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him.
10 The death he died, he died to sin ONCE FOR ALL; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 7:26-27
26 Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.
27 Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins ONCE FOR ALL when he offered himself.

Hebrews 9:11-13
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.
12 He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place ONCE FOR ALL by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption.
13 The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean.

Blessings,
Tim

Tim,

I take it you are saying this because you have been led to think that the Holy Eucharist is a re-sacrifice of Jesus. This is a very popular misunderstanding regarding the Catholic church among protestants. I used to believe it myself.

See, Catholics believe all those scriptures also. The Eucharist is not a re-sacrifice but the sacrifice. It is us going to Calvary.The Catholic Church has always agreed that Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient and complete. It is never to be repeated. His sacrifice on the cross was a complete sacrifice to which every Old Covenant animal of sacrifice prefigured. St. John announced in Chapter one : The next day, he saw Jesus coming towards him and said, "Look, there is the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world and Jesus went past and John looked towards him and said, “Look, there is the Lamb of God.”

Redemption was accomplished at the cross but application goes on for everyone. Kind of like that old song, At the cross, at the cross where I first saw the light.

Great link on the Eucharist: agapebiblestudy.com/documents/Is%20the%20Eucharist%20a%20True%20Sacrifice.htm

As we have all said before quoting Bible verses doesn’t help because you are asking us to follow your interpretation and well, who are you? Who are you to say what God’s Holy Word means. You must take every part of the Bible and I know there are Bible verses you do not understand. Protestant ministers all say there are Bible verses they don’t understand.

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

I didn’t say anything about refuting any doctrine. I am simply providing Scripture. You all know that I believe Sola Scriptura, so there is no surprises. If you think that the Scripture is refuting something, they’re not my words, but His.

Scripture is not refuting anything. It is just you are not qualified to interpret scripture. Scripture only confirms Catholic belief. You have to read it under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. You see I have met a lot of protestants under a lot of different denominations and I know some who will disagree with you. So, who is right? Who would I believe? I don’t even know you. God promised he would never leave us. The Catholic Church’s continuous presence has proved that.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

KG,
I do read Scripture every day, without the Catholic church. The Holy Spirit is in me. What’s your point?

That’s odd. The Holy Spirit is in you, yet you are acting like some kind of religious persecutor. I don’t believe you for one second.

My point is, you don’t speak like one with the Holy Spirit.

I am righteous only because of Jesus’ sacrifice and my acknowledging Him as my Lord & Savior. I am NOT righteous on my own merit! No, without Jesus Christ I am a lost wretch. Thank God that His blood has washed me clean of my sins, as it has washed clean all those saints who believe in Christ as the Truth, the Way and the Life!!

I guess you have confessed your sins of lies, hypocrisy, disrespect, etc… in the last few hours.

Being righteous requires obedience to God’s Word. Uncharitability is disobedience. There is not one soul that can be righteous AND be disobedient at the same time.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

I didn’t say anything about refuting any doctrine. I am simply providing Scripture. You all know that I believe Sola Scriptura, so there is no surprises. If you think that the Scripture is refuting something, they’re not my words, but His.

Ooohhh, it’s refuting something alright. Not only that, it justifies something else, Catholic doctrine.

 

[newcreation2009]

That’s a very convenient belief. Sounds more Baptist. Church of Christ Christians know they can fall away from God again. I’m sorry you’ve been duped into accepting this very superficial view of God.

Wow. You really had to go out
on a limb to come up with that misconception.
What exactly are you saying?
How is that a ‘convenient’ belief, that is the truth.
Jesus sits at the right hand of God the Father. (Mark 16:19)
You know, you don’t HAVE to disagree with me on everything JUST because I’m not Catholic.
You are allowed to agree with Scripture every once in a while. I’m just saying.

 

[newcreation2009]

Ooohhh, it’s refuting something alright. Not only that, it justifies something else, Catholic doctrine.

It’s interesting how the tone of your e-mail is coming through loud and clear.
What is it about the Scripture that I am providing that is getting under your skin?
I don’t understand.

 

[Nicea325]

Hermaneutics, exegesis…I know…but what confuses me is how you know that Satan quoted Scripture, but that you don’t know, or maybe you just forgot, that he did it while tempting Jesus. How or in what way am I tempting anyone on this site to turn AWAY from God, or to trust in me to give them anything, or to look to me for salvation, prosperity, wealth, etc.? Your “argument” doesn’t hold water. Try again.

Try again? It takes minimal effort to rebuke your self-rebuking arguments. By the way, you have to show us ALL where Jesus explicitly taught: The Bible-Only. So try again.

 

[newcreation2009]

That’s odd. The Holy Spirit is in you, yet you are acting like some kind of religious persecutor. I don’t believe you for one second.

My point is, you don’t speak like one with the Holy Spirit.

I guess you have confessed your sins of lies, hypocrisy, disrespect, etc… in the last few hours.

Being righteous requires obedience to God’s Word. Uncharitability is disobedience. There is not one soul that can be righteous AND be disobedient at the same time.

I agree, but just because I rely on Scripture alone doesn’t make me ‘unrighteous’.
Also, I am not speaking, I am typing. I am not judging either, just providing information.
And since you ‘don’t believe me for one second’, are you being self-righteous and judgemental? Just asking. Seriously, what is truly bothering you about me?

 

[Nicea325]

It’s interesting how the tone of your e-mail is coming through loud and clear.
What is it about the Scripture that I am providing that is getting under your skin?
I don’t understand.

I am curious to know why you have failed to show us where God taught:

EVERYTHING MUST BE IN THE BIBLE!!!

 

[newcreation2009]

Try again? It takes minimal effort to rebuke your self-rebuking arguments. By the way, you have to show us ALL where Jesus explicitly taught: The Bible-Only. So try again.

If you read 2 Timothy 3:16-18 and 2 Thesalonians, again, I know you’ll find it there if you look hard enough. All the best.

Tim

 

[Ruth_Catherine]

KG,
I do read Scripture every day, without the Catholic church. The Holy Spirit is in me. What’s your point? I am righteous only because of Jesus’ sacrifice and my acknowledging Him as my Lord & Savior. I am NOT righteous on my own merit! No, without Jesus Christ I am a lost wretch. Thank God that His blood has washed me clean of my sins, as it has washed clean all those saints who believe in Christ as the Truth, the Way and the Life!! Christ is the head of the church and I look to Him and Him alone for my salvation! His will for my life here on earth is found in Matthew 28:16…

Blessings,
Tim

Tim
If you were baptized and confirmed you do have the Holy Spirit in you. You are right, all baptized believers do. Ou r bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit.And none of us are righteous on our own merit. We all rely on the blood of Jesus Christ. Catholics believe Jesus is the way, the truth and the life also. It is just we know to find that way, truth and life it has to follow under the guidance of the Catholic church because that is the closest place on earth to find Jesus and salvation. Without the guidance found by the Holy Spirit found in the Church you are actually trying to earn salvation by your own merits. Studying scripture all by yourself, relying on your own interpretation is pretty hard work. Trying to figure it all out by yourself is work.

If you feel Matthew 28:16 is your calling, and Catholics believe that Bible verse also, just get it under correct guidance. Call upon God and ask him where in his Church he would like you to fulfill that mission. Nothing is an accident. There must be a reason you are here, a reason God led you to this thread. As I said before I will keep you in my prayers.

if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. 1 Timothy 3:15.

 

[Nicea325]

If you read 2 Timothy 3:16-18 and 2 Thesalonians, again, I know you’ll find it there if you look hard enough. All the best.

Tim

LOL! Of course…the notorious and perverted verses by non-Catholics to prove a lie!

WRONG! First of all, St.Paul said those words…not Jesus,so try again. Second, no where does St.Paul say in those verses scripture alone is the final authority. NO WHERE!

One more time:

Where did Jesus teach: The Bible-Alone.

Keep trying…I do admire your efforts.

 

[JustaServant]

If you read 2 Timothy 3:16-18 and 2 Thesalonians, again, I know you’ll find it there if you look hard enough. All the best.

Tim

Again Tim, where in the Bible does it sola Scriptura, clearly and without question?