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upant
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what about your other readers? what is your solution?
"Why It Won’t Stop With Statues." Article on why it can be expected that the mayhem will get worse
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Anrakyr
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No you don’t, you vote and the guy representing your votes in the electoral college picks who you voted for. You are in a representative republic, not a democracy.
Pretty sure they are mad because those laws don’t apply to certain people.
Eradicating poverty means we have to have a look at what hard work means. Is it hard because it’s physical or because it’s demanding? Because it takes skill or most of our time? I like the concept in the bible of a denarius, you work a day you get paid for a day.
I feel like we have lost sight of what counts as a day’s wages. You bring your lunch to work $5-10 dollars value of food, you work 8-10 hours you get about $80 before taxes. If someone has to take a day off work (thinking mostly of the single people out there) to go to the doctors or a bank appointment you lose out on that’s days pay and you have to pay gas, parking, what have you.
With that in mind is $80 a fair wage? Id argue, no. If a worker is values we should be willing to pay them for the time they are worth making so if they have to drop a day its not the end of the world.
If we pay people a fair wage we will have quality workers. If we give people crap wages… you get what you pay for.
We start there we go a long way to solving poverty and by extension many other ills poverty causes.
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JimR-OCDS
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Yeah and your representative in the Electoral College votes according to the way the people of the state voted.
It’s still a democratic process in the state who elects their representatives in Congress.
What laws don’t apply to certain people. Please be specific.
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Anrakyr
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Cop kills someone even if hes deemed at fault he either gets moved two cities over or is protected by qualified immunity.
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JimR-OCDS
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This is false and you’re not being specific.
If a cop kills a suspect, the case put under review and he doesn’t get moved. He’s put on administration leave until there is a grand jury hearing. If there is probable cause that the cop acted improperly and abused the civil rights of the suspect, the case is turned over to the DA. These cases rarely make it into the news as most are white cops shooting white suspects. Only black suspects make it to the news and the media causes feeds the public with sensation rather than rational facts.
Even in the case of George Floyd, a known criminal, excon, the cop Derek Chauvin, now faces 2nd degree murder. The other other cops are also charged with being accessories to the crime.
What more justice do they want for Floyd ? Destroy the nation ?
There are bad cops, but there are many more good cops and they’re all working on edge as they have to go into dangerous situations and if they make a mistake, it could cost them their lives and their families lives.
I would never want to be a cop in the US today. I’m glad there are those who do.
If a cop kills a suspect, the case put under review and he doesn’t get moved. He’s put on administration leave until there is a grand jury hearing. If there is probable cause that the cop acted improperly and abused the civil rights of the suspect, the case is turned over to the DA. These cases rarely make it into the news as most are white cops shooting white suspects. Only black suspects make it to the news and the media causes feeds the public with sensation rather than rational facts.
Even in the case of George Floyd, a known criminal, excon, the cop Derek Chauvin, now faces 2nd degree murder. The other other cops are also charged with being accessories to the crime.
What more justice do they want for Floyd ? Destroy the nation ?
There are bad cops, but there are many more good cops and they’re all working on edge as they have to go into dangerous situations and if they make a mistake, it could cost them their lives and their families lives.
I would never want to be a cop in the US today. I’m glad there are those who do.
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otjm
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I am not sure that one can say that the Right is the one not seeking forgiveness or reconciliation.
I am not even sure that I can encapsulate what “forgiveness” means. My ancestors arrived in the US several decades after slavery ended, and they were “dirt farmers” - they bought land and farmed it for two generations; in the third generation, my grandfather opened a mechanic shop and worked on repairing cars, trucks, and farm machinery. on one side of the family, they all came from Holland; the other side appears to have come over some time a bit before the Revolutionary War, but they were Irish - a group dispised and discriminated against for centuries in the US.
Reconciliation? My families were all Catholic coming to what was predominately a Protestant country. With whom do I need to reconcile? In Oregon where they lived in the late 1800’s and since, the KKK were burning crosses in Catholic areas. With whom do I reconcile?
I am white; Oregon has a Black population of about 2.2% black, and I have never had the opportunity to date a Black woman; but I have dated a Vietnamese, a Taiwanese, and a Puerto Rican. And of the last, I never asked about her heritage, but there have been over the centuries marriages between Hispanics and Blacks in Puerto Rico. So what is the point there? I am racist simply because I am white? My response to that is a) that is irrational and illogical, and b) Anyone who believes that is full of it.
And as to the perpetrators to initial injustice, they are long dead. We need to move forward as of today, not go back and attempt to change or re-write history.
I don’t choose to seek “reconcilliation” and “forgiveness” for something which neither I not my ancestors had any responsibility.
What I am more than willing to do is seek justice. However, I am seriously disinterested in what the radical left says is “justice”. I seek to treat everyone with dignity. And when I practiced criminal defense law, my work was completely color blind.
I also firmly subscribe to a Catholic Charities slogan: “A hand up, not a hand out”. In other words, I subscribe to doing something, not talking something.
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otjm
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Let’s start with the county medical examiner’s autopsy which said that George died of something other than strangulation, and his autopsy identified something like three or four illegal substances in his system. How about we let the jury decide whether or not the officer contributed to his death.
And while we are at it, perhaps the issue of whether or not he had just committed a crime should be examined, so we don’t get some off the wall comments that he was being detained for being Black.
Yes, we have the issue of excessive use of force; we also have someone high on drugs, and that often contributes to resisting arrest, often violently. Better policing methods could possibly have restrained him while they were trying to arrest him; but to simplify this as “White on Black policing” is making hash of the truth.
And currently, making hash of the truth seems to be very popular with avoiding a thoughtful, honest critical analysis.
No death is “just another death”. But it is beyond simplistic to reduce Mr. Floyd’s death to issues which may have absolutely no connection with it’s cause.
Currently there is a whole raft of calls for change which are not only illogical, they are irrational.
And it is more than a bit difficult to have a rational discussion with someone who is emotionally irrational.
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otjm
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That is an overstatement of the facts. Take away qualified immunity - which is not absolute immunity, but protects officers when they have to use force in arresting or attempting to arrest an individual - and you may well find that you either have no police, or they will not attempt to arrest anyone who resists.
I would have no problem with finding a means to prevent someone from entering police work if they have been found to have acted criminally in their work.
There is more than a slight difference.
I am all for a rational discussion of better policing; and anyone who wants to discuss should first read the Politico report of the changes to policing made by Camden, N.J. in 2013 - including the negatives as well as the positives.
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Anrakyr
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The project’s data suggest that police are more likely than the average person to commit a number of crimes including assault, sexual assault, and murder, but less likely to commit robbery. The NPMSRP projects that roughly 1 in 4.7 officers will be implicated in an act of misconduct during the course of their career.
That’s from wiki second from the top. Took me two seconds.
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otjm
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No idea what you are linking to. My response was “he gets moved over two cities” - and you have no link there to anything.
If he is indicted and found guilty, he is moving - to prison. Not likely to do much policing there.
If he is indicted and found guilty, he is moving - to prison. Not likely to do much policing there.
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Anrakyr
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Wikipedia. I said that. Don’t be obtuse.
They don’t. Thats why if theres too much a problem they move.
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Freddy
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Well gee, catching up on this thread was a depressing few minutes.
I think it might be a good idea to admit that we’re all racist to some degree and that racism is prevelant throughout all socieites and has been at all times. All agreed? Good.
Now whether you want to call the racism in society inherrent or systematic or natural or endemic or whatever term you’d care to emply, is there anyone who disagrees that it’s a problem? Good.
Now is there anyone who wants to disagree with the fact racism generally affects the minorities in any given society? All agreed? Good.
Now…anyone have any suggestions about what we can all do about it?
I think it might be a good idea to admit that we’re all racist to some degree and that racism is prevelant throughout all socieites and has been at all times. All agreed? Good.
Now whether you want to call the racism in society inherrent or systematic or natural or endemic or whatever term you’d care to emply, is there anyone who disagrees that it’s a problem? Good.
Now is there anyone who wants to disagree with the fact racism generally affects the minorities in any given society? All agreed? Good.
Now…anyone have any suggestions about what we can all do about it?
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otjm
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Wikipedia is not known for utter reliability.
The FBI keeps statistics, and over the years between 1999 and 2014 there were between 441,000 and 535,00 police. The data however is acknowledged as not absolute as reporting is voluntary, and estimates are that as much as 1/3 of police agencies do not report as they are most likely in the pool of small forces - those in small towns and/or more isolated counties. Taking the lowest number and increasing the pool to reflect 1/3 more puts police totals at 660,000.
Taking the CATO Institute report on the NPMSRP report, they reflect violent crimes per 100,000 (comparing national averages of non-police to police) and the estimate is 409.3 per 100,000, or four one thousandths of 1 percent.
And as they note that as crimes - which means convictions, those folks have gone to prison.
I am not apologizing for their behavior - they belong in prison.
I don’t have a link to “wikipedia” except by some search r=criteria, and I have no idea what your criteria are. If you wish to post a link, it makes a discussion possible.
If the matter is not prosecuted because the evidence is no crime was committed, then unless you can show prosecutorial misconduct, you are simply making wild charges.
If the matter was brought to a grand jury and given a not true bill, you may think you know better than the grand jury - which is unadulterated speculation based on emotions, not facts. And the Michael Brown case is a prime example.
Malcolm Gladwell, in his book What the Dog Saw, in the chapter entitled Million Dollar Murray reiterated what the Christopher Commission found after the wake of the Rodney King beating. Of the 8500 police officers for LAPD, in a four year period of 1986 to 1990, found allegations of excessive use of force or improper tactics made against 1800. Of thopse, more than 1400 had onlly one or two allegations made against them - not proven charges, but allegations, over a four year period. And as he notes, they are an inevitable feature of urban police work.
Out of the 8500 officers, 183 had four or more complaints against them; and out of them 44 officers had 6 or more; 16 had 8 or more, and one had 16 complaints.
Body cams have gone a long way to providing information on arrests, and is being used to sort out truth from emotion when claims of excessive use of force are brought against officers. That in itself will go a long way to sorting out good from bad.
I have no problem with a national means of preventing officers who have used force inappropriately from being removed permanently from policing. Wikipedia however is not the source I would use.
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Anrakyr
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Wikipedia has to source itself which you pointed out on your own.
If one in five commit crime and next to no one gets indicted then it follows they are not being procecuted.
Theres nothing wild about it.
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upant
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where do these jobs that pay a fair wage come from? who creates them?
U
upant
Guest
so much for a serious discussion…upant:
See when a mommy job and a daddy job love each other very much…
U
upant
Guest
what if the jobs can’t sustain the wage as we see in cities that raised the rate to $15. how many people lost their jobs and how many small businesses closed because of the increase. google it
you don’t want serious discussion just buy-in to your idea
how many of these jobs are available in the places the poor reside in?
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Anrakyr
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I’m sorry that companies don’t want to pay a fair wage. It has nothing to do with being sustainable.
Anything can be if we prioritize it.
Anything can be if we prioritize it.
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upant
Guest
it has nothing to do with want in many cases small businesses can’t.
you can prioritize all you want but if the money isn’t there…
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