Why we are left alone with Devils?

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STT said:
So why God allows them to tempt us to the degree that we fail and sin? What is the point?
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God created man with free will. By use of free will cooperating with God given grace, temptation can be overcome.

1 John 3
8 He that commmitteth sin is of the devil: for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose, the Son of God appeared, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
James 1
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he hath been proved, he shall receive a crown of life, which God hath promised to them that love him.
13 Let no man, when he is tempted, say that he is tempted by God. For God is not a tempter of evils, and he tempteth no man.
14 But every man is tempted by his own concupiscence, being drawn away and allured.
1 Cor. 10
13 Let no temptation take hold on you, but such as is human. And God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that which you are able: but will make also with temptation issue, that you may be able to bear it.
 
STT said:
I am familiar with some of those answers. God allows Devils to do evil for greater good! This kind of answer does not make any sense to me. I am open to hear your answer.
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God sometimes allows the Devil the take you down to rock bottom in your life, so that the only thing left is for you to cry out to God for help.
 
What I find most curious about this topic, is the fact that Satan and other fallen angels seemed to ‘luck out’ when they fell, more so than any thing else that is fallen in nature anyway.

While it is true, satan/ demons will ultimately end up in the pit for all eternity, they seem to enjoy a fairly free existence since their fall, and up until the final judgement, plus the fact that God would ‘permit or allow’ them to do anything is beyond me…Satan literally tries to overthrow heaven and take Gods throne for himself, and he is thrown out of heaven…down to earth with us…retaining (or gaining) the ability to influence and interact with the physical world in many different ways…?

Heck the bible even says Satan will unleash the antichrist on the world in the end times, causing all sorts of problems, he will be cast into the pit, but there is also that passage that says he must be released upon the world again for a short time…LOL This is ridiculous, why would our God ‘allow’ such a thing, from a being that tried to overthrow his authority, not to mention taking millions of angels with him in the process, which is also interesting in itself…

If 1/3 of the angels truly believed Satan, there is more to the story than we know.

Im of the belief that ‘the fall’ was not something satan chose to do, instead this was all planned by God…ultimately so we could have free will, in order for us to have a choice in the first place, there MUST be at least 2 available options, God and some alternative to God, If satan never fell in the way he did, what would free will look like in our world today?

When there is only one option, there is no choice, in that there is no alternative to select…see what Im saying?
 
mikekle said:
What I find most curious about this topic, is the fact that Satan and other fallen angels seemed to ‘luck out’ when they fell, more so than any thing else that is fallen in nature anyway.

While it is true, satan/ demons will ultimately end up in the pit for all eternity, they seem to enjoy a fairly free existence since their fall, and up until the final judgement, plus the fact that God would ‘permit or allow’ them to do anything is beyond me…Satan literally tries to overthrow heaven and take Gods throne for himself, and he is thrown out of heaven…down to earth with us…retaining (or gaining) the ability to influence and interact with the physical world in many different ways…?

Heck the bible even says Satan will unleash the antichrist on the world in the end times, causing all sorts of problems, he will be cast into the pit, but there is also that passage that says he must be released upon the world again for a short time…LOL This is ridiculous, why would our God ‘allow’ such a thing, from a being that tried to overthrow his authority, not to mention taking millions of angels with him in the process, which is also interesting in itself…

If 1/3 of the angels truly believed Satan, there is more to the story than we know.

Im of the belief that ‘the fall’ was not something satan chose to do, instead this was all planned by God…ultimately so we could have free will, in order for us to have a choice in the first place, there MUST be at least 2 available options, God and some alternative to God, If satan never fell in the way he did, what would free will look like in our world today?

When there is only one option, there is no choice, in that there is no alternative to select…see what Im saying?
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From the 4th Lateran Council (1215)
  • The evil spirits (demons) were created good by God; they became evil through their own fault.
Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, Ludwig Ott, p. 119.

Luke 22, 31:
“Simon, Simon, behold Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat. But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not; and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.”
 
STT said:
So you don’t believe in spiritual reality and God?
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I never said anything about either.

You may think the power of God is so weak and puny that it can’t stop demons getting at you, but Paul tells us “For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8).

Which is more powerful, God or a billion trillion demons?

No one can possibly believe that demons could control their thoughts if they have any faith at all in the power of God. God isn’t a voodoo doll. This is a philosophy forum, and Christianity is about reason and light, not about superstitious tripe.

And one last time: Anyone who believes his thoughts are controlled by demons, and who can’t see how nonsensical and irrational that is, is in urgent need of psychiatric help, and should stop making excuses and see his doctor without further delay.
 
mikekle said:
What I find most curious about this topic, is the fact that Satan and other fallen angels seemed to ‘luck out’ when they fell, more so than any thing else that is fallen in nature anyway.

While it is true, satan/ demons will ultimately end up in the pit for all eternity, they seem to enjoy a fairly free existence since their fall, and up until the final judgement, plus the fact that God would ‘permit or allow’ them to do anything is beyond me…Satan literally tries to overthrow heaven and take Gods throne for himself, and he is thrown out of heaven…down to earth with us…retaining (or gaining) the ability to influence and interact with the physical world in many different ways…?

Heck the bible even says Satan will unleash the antichrist on the world in the end times, causing all sorts of problems, he will be cast into the pit, but there is also that passage that says he must be released upon the world again for a short time…LOL This is ridiculous, why would our God ‘allow’ such a thing, from a being that tried to overthrow his authority, not to mention taking millions of angels with him in the process, which is also interesting in itself…

If 1/3 of the angels truly believed Satan, there is more to the story than we know.

Im of the belief that ‘the fall’ was not something satan chose to do, instead this was all planned by God…ultimately so we could have free will, in order for us to have a choice in the first place, there MUST be at least 2 available options, God and some alternative to God, If satan never fell in the way he did, what would free will look like in our world today?

When there is only one option, there is no choice, in that there is no alternative to select…see what Im saying?
Click to expand...
I suppose God allows all this to teach man about virtue / vice… if there were no evil there could be no virtue and merit .
 
Vera_Ljuba said:
What kind of “merit” is there in the suffering of toddlers (baptized or not) when they are teething? An excruciating pain that serves no purpose.

Really? How would you KNOW that? Did you have a conversation with the devil at a five o’clock tea? Or you just repeat mindlessly what someone else said - who also has no idea what they are talking about?

You are funnier than a mediocre stand-up comic. I keep on laughing when you (in general) dare to speak authoritatively about these subjects. A huge dollop of humility would be in order.
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You have been reported for rude and insulting behavior toward other members of this thread. I’ve also noticed it’s not the first time you behaved this way.

“Disagreement does not imply disrespect!” --No, but your comments sure do.
:dts:
 
mikekle said:
the bible even says Satan will unleash the antichrist on the world in the end times, causing all sorts of problems, he will be cast into the pit, but there is also that passage that says he must be released upon the world again for a short time…LOL This is ridiculous, why would our God ‘allow’ such a thing
Click to expand...
On this point, I have heard it posited that the faithful living at the period of time of the final unleashing of evil will be astonished at the power of Satan – yet, will truly glimpse the Glory of God when Satan is shown powerless against the Almighty. This will be a unique grace, for a few.
 
God says - My thought are not your thoughts , neither are your ways My ways. Its difficult to see and to understand how God works from a human perspective.

God is not going to wrap us in bubble wrap. See in your life that it is the moments of doubt and pain that we grow in - without it we would learn nothing - life is not all candy canes and sugar pops - its through these hard moments of temptation and pain that we grow spiritually.
 
Vera_Ljuba said:
What kind of “merit” is there in the suffering of toddlers (baptized or not) when they are teething? An excruciating pain that serves no purpose.

Really? How would you KNOW that? Did you have a conversation with the devil at a five o’clock tea? Or you just repeat mindlessly what someone else said - who also has no idea what they are talking about?

You are funnier than a mediocre stand-up comic. I keep on laughing when you (in general) dare to speak authoritatively about these subjects. A huge dollop of humility would be in order.
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/COLOR
Check did Roth on its supernatural. It is testimonies dealing with the spiritual realm. And educational . not just an opinion
 
Roseeurekacross said:
Why not?

We are all formed , or destroyed, in the forge. Our Souls are tested. Is it not said repeatedly in the Bible , of different Patriachs and Prophets.?

Temptations last but a fleeting moment in our daily struggle. Pray when you are tempted. Do not dialogue with Satan. Do not give it permission to run riot in your life.
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Wish i was that strong
 
Vico said:
God created man with free will. By use of free will cooperating with God given grace, temptation can be overcome.

1 John 3
8 He that commmitteth sin is of the devil: for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose, the Son of God appeared, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
James 1
12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he hath been proved, he shall receive a crown of life, which God hath promised to them that love him.
13 Let no man, when he is tempted, say that he is tempted by God. For God is not a tempter of evils, and he tempteth no man.
14 But every man is tempted by his own concupiscence, being drawn away and allured.
1 Cor. 10
13 Let no temptation take hold on you, but such as is human. And God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that which you are able: but will make also with temptation issue, that you may be able to bear it.
Click to expand...
You didn’t answer the main question: What is the point in all these?
 
inocente said:
I never said anything about either.

You may think the power of God is so weak and puny that it can’t stop demons getting at you, but Paul tells us “For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 8).

Which is more powerful, God or a billion trillion demons?

No one can possibly believe that demons could control their thoughts if they have any faith at all in the power of God. God isn’t a voodoo doll. This is a philosophy forum, and Christianity is about reason and light, not about superstitious tripe.

And one last time: Anyone who believes his thoughts are controlled by demons, and who can’t see how nonsensical and irrational that is, is in urgent need of psychiatric help, and should stop making excuses and see his doctor without further delay.
Click to expand...
So you believe that Devils can tempt us? How they could do that without having access to our mind?
 
STT said:
You didn’t answer the main question: What is the point in all these?
Click to expand...
The purpose was given in James 1 “for when he hath been proved, he shall receive a crown of life, which God hath promised to them that love him”. God created mankind to serve him and later to be happy in heaven.

To manifest love requires free will. Free will allows for opposition to God, therefore there is good and evil will. Those that love God will be happy in heaven, otherwise those that do not love God will not be where they do not want to be, that is, with God.
 
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