Why We Need the New Lynching Memorial

[TheAmazingGrace]

Doesn’t matter if they were “throwing” it out or not - they happened to be right.

I didn’t say it was wrong. I said that assuming it was right, it still represents a huge difference between the number of black vs. white victims. The poster said that “30% of the total number were whites. By no means insignificant,” but here’s the thing: according to census records, black Americans haven’t constituted more than 15% of the US population in the last 150 years. That this particular demographic constituted 70% of lynching victims despite only representing ~1/8 of the population shows that they were not only disproportionately affected, but severely so.

 

[exnihilo]

And a whites-only lynching memorial would strike me as odd - like a memorial to victims of the Holocaust that excluded all mention of its Jewish victims. Frankly, given recent attempts to deny or minimise the Holocaust, I’d be suspicious of the motives of the makers of such a memorial.

I doubt it would just strike you as odd. If the article was about a memorial to honor just White people for anything everyone supporting this monument would, I’m sure, oppose that.

I speak as someone who had many relatives affected by WWII - the honouring in WWII memorials of Jewish victims and members of the armed forces in no way discriminates aganst those of my family members who were neither Jewish nor in the military but were victims nonetheless.

Again, I doubt you’d support a WWII monument solely for Whites who died in the war. Correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[exnihilo]

You’re not using statistics right. You need to consider Blacks as relative to the local population. The southern states had a much higher Black population. If I recall South Carolina at one point had more Blacks than Whites. Alabama and Mississippi would be similar.

What should be more striking is that more Blacks than Whites were lynched in Illinois where I’m sure the Black population was almost non existent until well into the twentieth century. That doesn’t fit in with the evil southerner narrative so is of course ignored.

None of this is to say that Blacks weren’t lynched overall at a higher rate than Whites. But having a reasonable perspective on the issue is important

 

[Pup7]

Pup7:

Doesn’t matter if they were “throwing” it out or not - they happened to be right.

I didn’t say it was wrong. I said that assuming it was right, it still represents a huge difference between the number of black vs. white victims. The poster said that “30% of the total number were whites. By no means insignificant,” but here’s the thing: according to census records, black Americans haven’t constituted more than 15% of the US population in the last 150 years. That this particular demographic constituted 70% of lynching victims despite only representing ~1/8 of the population shows that they were not only disproportionately affected, but severely so.

He hasn’t disputed that in the least. But a significant number of people lost their own lives in the attempt to say what was happening was 100% wrong.

Even mentioning that at the site would be 100% appropriate and 100% appreciated by surviving family members of those people. Not mentioning them is nearly as bad as not acknowledging that lynching went on in the first place.

The US Holocaust memorial does mention that it wasn’t just the Jews Hitler was attempting to exterminate (I’ve been there twice). Why not mention those who attempted to stand up for others in this case and who were murdered for it? It wasn’t two or three people. It was a not insignificant number. It doesn’t detract from the larger picture at all.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

You need to consider Blacks as relative to the local population.

Black Americans have never constituted 70% of any state. Nice try.

 

[LilyM]

But you still haven’t shown me WHERE the memorial says it is specifically only for blacks.

You haven’t told me why you’re not protesting the many Holocaust memorials that focus exclusively on Jewish victims.

Or why you’re not protesting the fact that none of my WWII relatives apart from the few who were in the military are memorialised.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

The US Holocaust memorial does mention that it wasn’t just the Jews Hitler was attempting to exterminate (I’ve been there twice). Why not mention those who attempted to stand up for others in this case and who were murdered for it? It wasn’t two or three people. It was a not insignificant number. It doesn’t detract from the larger picture at all.

There are hundreds of memorials dedicated to Jewish victims of the Holocaust that don’t make any mention of the Righteous Among the Nations. Some memorials are built for the sake of celebration, some for education, and some for mourning. What I don’t understand is people tearing at their hair and rending their garments because this memorial mourns the black victims of a practice that predominantly affected black Americans.

I’d say “go ahead build your own memorial if honoring white victims is so important to you,” but the opposition to this memorial seems to be more about decrying acknowledgment of the atrocities committed against black Americans than any true concern for non-black victims.

 

[Usagi]

What? I was specifically calling out that some white lynching victims were lynched because of race/ethnicity. I’ll thank you not to make assumptions about how I make decisions, especially based on your own misunderstanding of my words.

I will note, of course, that while we call them “white victims” now, those people were not lynched for being white, but for not being white (or not white “enough”) by other white people. I could certainly see giving those folks a place in the memorial, as further victims of white supremacy, but I can also understand the desire to focus this particular memorial on the special effects of lynching on the black population.

 

[exnihilo]

None of this is to say that Blacks weren’t lynched overall at a higher rate than Whites. But having a reasonable perspective on the issue is important

Maybe you missed the above sentence.

But you still haven’t shown me WHERE the memorial says it is specifically only for blacks.

Go to the website where it only talks about Black victims.

You haven’t told me why you’re not protesting the many Holocaust memorials that focus exclusively on Jewish victims.

I do protest any memorial that is dedicated to one race. Don’t you?

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

But having a reasonable perspective on the issue is important

The “reasonable” perspective that this memorial is garbage while Confederate monuments are no biggie?

 

[exnihilo]

The memorial isn’t garbage. It is racist. I don’t know what Confederate monuments have to do with this and they certainly don’t make this monument not racist.

 

[TheAmazingGrace]

The memorial isn’t garbage. It is racist.

That’s your opinion.

I can’t help but SMDH at you fancying yourself to be so oppressed by the mere acknowledgment of terrible things that happened to other people.

I don’t know what Confederate monuments have to do with this and they certainly don’t make this monument not racist.

You were excusing them in several earlier posts.

 

[Augustinian]

I think the location of this memorial is pretty weak. Choosing a place so southern might give viewers of the site the erroneous view that lynching was confined to the Dixie, and serve to demonize current residents of the south, which have nothing to do with this. Its been many years since lynching has been a problem.

Putting it in Washington DC would be less antagonistic.

 

[Usagi]

There is a difference, though, between an individual injustice (say, a suspect dragged out of jail and killed by a mob before he can face trial) and a system of injustice in which individuals can not only be killed in that way, but the perpetrators can take pictures of the event with no fear that they will be punished, and the knowledge and fear of that happening is used to reinforce the dominance of one group over another.

It would, I would suggest, be wrong to treat those incidents as examples of the same thing, even if each individual case appears similar and concludes in an unjust killing. The man killed by vigilantes should not be forgotten or the injustice against him seen as unimportant, but the crime against him doesn’t implicate mainstream (I.e., white) American society at the time in the same way the pattern of racially-based crimes does.

 

[meltzerboy2]

How many Italians were lynched in the U. S. because they were Italian? How many Jews: one that I know of, maybe a few more? Now, how many Blacks simply because of hatred due to their race and color?

 

[Usagi]

If something was done disproportionally to one race, because of their race, and affects their descendants to this day … then, no, I have no objection to a memorial dedicated to that fact.

A memorial to the suffering of Native Americans since the arrival of others on these shores would not be racist even though plenty of people have suffered here in that time.

 

[exnihilo]

There is a difference, though, between an individual injustice (say, a suspect dragged out of jail and killed by a mob before he can face trial) and a system of injustice in which individuals can not only be killed in that way, but the perpetrators can take pictures of the event with no fear that they will be punished, and the knowledge and fear of that happening is used to reinforce the dominance of one group over another.

Here is a picture of a White man hanged by a lynch mob. The mob took a picture and seems unconcerned about being punished. So his lynch mob death isn’t particularly important because he was White?

 

[Augustinian]

How many Italians were lynched in the U. S. because they were Italian? How many Jews: one that I know of, maybe a few more? Now, how many Blacks simply because of hatred due to their race and color?

Not every black who was lynched was killed “simply” because of hatred due to their race.

Many were accused of crimes, oftentimes serious and capital crimes. Their ethnicity may have played a part in the mob deciding to bypass due process, but the lynching wasn’t “simply” because of race.

 

[Usagi]

Is there a story that goes with that photo? I would be curious as to the reasons for that man’s killing, and particularly in whether his killers thought of him as white…

 

[Pup7]

Pup7:

The US Holocaust memorial does mention that it wasn’t just the Jews Hitler was attempting to exterminate (I’ve been there twice). Why not mention those who attempted to stand up for others in this case and who were murdered for it? It wasn’t two or three people. It was a not insignificant number. It doesn’t detract from the larger picture at all.

There are hundreds of memorials dedicated to Jewish victims of the Holocaust that don’t make any mention of the Righteous Among the Nations. Some memorials are built for the sake of celebration, some for education, and some for mourning. What I don’t understand is people tearing at their hair and rending their garments because this memorial mourns the black victims of a practice that predominantly affected black Americans.

I’d say “go ahead build your own memorial if honoring white victims is so important to you,” but the opposition to this memorial seems to be more about decrying acknowledgment of the atrocities committed against black Americans than any true concern for non-black victims.

The point is that there are many memorials that don’t just do that. If you’re going to build one, and it’s the first, why not just do this now?

You continue to insist that anyone who says this is downplaying what was done against African-Americans at that time. The fact is - they’re not. Neither am I. And not everyone who says “we think this” is opposed to any of it. Generalizing does no one any good.