WhyMe and others: Can you Be Catholic and LDS at the same time?

[Religio71]

They believe that gays can be priests. And they believe in the right to an abortion…and they believe in women priests…And the lutherans have a transvestaite priest. So, If I support all this I am still a christian?

None of those are heretical theologies on God.

 

[why_me]

It is too funny that why me is trying to portray Mormons as not caring about doctrine, and puts Catholics like Mother Theresa and Saint Therese as evidence of how we shouldn’t care about doctrine. The fundamental difference between Mother Theresa’s ministry to the poor (regardless of religion) and what we are talking about here, is that Mother Theresa was not talking about religion at all, and was not proselytizing or trying to save them. That was not her calling in life, and yet she strongly believed in the Truth of the Catholic Faith, and never preached a universalism that we see here.

Mother Therese was being a missionary by doing good works. She said that her mission was to bring people to christ through her good works. Mother Therese was doing religion. And that was her calling in life. Mother Therese did universalism through her acts of loving others.

 

[why_me]

None of those are heretical theologies on God.

Oh…okay…so that is all okay. Nice to know. I will now tell my protestant friends that god supports gay priests and the gay lifestyle, not to mention abortion on demand. None of that is a heresy. But the mormons…well…they are heretics.

 

[Religio71]

Ultimately, when we talk about why one cannot be both Catholic and LDS, the issues we are discussing are related to doctrine/dogma, which is defining of what a religion is. Sure, you can give up coffee, and alcohol, however that’s not what we are talking about. Below are some of the fundamental beliefs that are required to be LDS:

-You must believe that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God.
-You must believe that there was a Great Apostasy, that priesthood authority was taken away from the earth, and that it is restored only in the LDS Church.
-You must believe that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not consubstantial
-You must believe that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones.
-You must believe that there is no original sin.
-You must believe in the Pre-existence
-You must believe that God the Father has a spouse, the Heavenly Mother, providing the model for us.

None of these are compatible with Catholicism, unless you redefine what it means to be Catholic and LDS. However, the very foundation of Mormonism, as in, why it exists, is incompatible with Catholicism.

 

[Religio71]

Oh…okay…so that is all okay. Nice to know. I will now tell my protestant friends that god supports gay priests and the gay lifestyle, not to mention abortion on demand. None of that is a heresy. But the mormons…well…they are heretics.

Who said that was okay or that it wasn’t heretical? Show us where I said that.

Mormons believe in a different God than traditional Christians, thus they are not Christians according to the traditional definition. Lutherans and Episcopalians believe in the same God as Catholics, Mormons do not.

 

[MelanieAnne]

It is too funny that why me is trying to portray Mormons as not caring about doctrine, and puts Catholics like Mother Theresa and Saint Therese as evidence of how we shouldn’t care about doctrine. The fundamental difference between Mother Theresa’s ministry to the poor (regardless of religion) and what we are talking about here, is that Mother Theresa was not talking about religion at all, and was not proselytizing or trying to save them. That was not her calling in life, and yet she strongly believed in the Truth of the Catholic Faith, and never preached a universalism that we see here.

Why me may cite the LDS Articles of Faith as saying that Mormons allow anyone to worship however they want to, and it’s ok, but that is completely false. We all know about the LDS missionaries, and the vast majority of those are on proselytizing missions. Why oh why would they go out into the world to proselytize if they didn’t believe that it was necessary to hear and partake in the “Restored Gospel”?

The other side of this “live and let live coin” is that, sure, you can go and follow your own religion right now, it’s ok. But when you die, we’ll just proxy baptize you and confirm you into the LDS Church! Somehow or the other, everyone will have to hear and hopefully accept the Restored Gospel, as you cannot believe whatever you want and have the highest and true salvation of the LDS gospel, which is exaltation, or becoming a god.

Religio, you have done a great service attempting to educate those who know little or nothing about the Catholic faith, even those that claim Catholic origins, but I fear you are attempting to teach at least some people that refuse to listen. It appears to be a sort of religious version of “don’t confuse me with facts, my mind is made up.”

I am, however, concerned about anyone the receiving of the Eucharist in a state of mortal sin, which is what happens when a so-called “Catholic Mormon” or “Mormon Catholic” attempts to receive the Eucharist. If a person, previously Catholic, has been baptized Mormon, which is, whether they think so or not, a rejection of their Catholic faith, they are in a state of mortal sin from the point of view of the Catholic Church. Unless and until that has been remedied through Catholic Reconciliation, to receive the Eucharist is not a simple error, it is receiving damnation. This is extremely serious and should not be trivialized. The fact that Mormons DO trivialize it, the fact that they call for authority where no administrative authority is involved, in fact the fact that they dispute this ALONE shows that they are not Catholic.

The fact that some Mormon or another does not accept this does not change Catholic doctrine. The fact that a Mormon believes that there must be some sort of administrative act to excommunicate (as is the case in their organization) does not change the fact that the previously Catholic person who receives Mormon baptism self-excommunicates by their action. That was serious sin. To follow that up with receiving the Catholic Eucharist unworthily just makes it worse.

I strongly suspect that some of the “Catholic Mormons” or “Mormon Catholics” that are posting to this forum are merely posing as such. It is a way to provoke a discussion and a device that enables them to be free to discuss Mormonism while, at least initially, posing as sympathetic to the Catholic faith. It’s rather clever if you think about it. While interest in some aspects of the Catholic faith may be sincere, they are not truly Catholic, they don’t attend Mass and all the rest of this is just a device to provoke controversy. The best way to deal with such situations is to ignore them.

 

[zerinus]

No, that’s not a good analogy. It’s more like saying one can’t have dual citizenship of two different countries because for citizenship in country X, you must believe that President X is the only president in the world with authority, and for country Y, you must believe that President Y is the only president in the world with authority. It’s a contradiction.

It’s laughable if you think it’s possible to believe at the same time that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, and that God the Father does not have a body of flesh and bones.

Or that it’s possible to believe that only the LDS Church has priesthood authority, and that the Catholic Church has priesthood authority.

I think that I could be a Catholic and Mormon as the same time, and render loyal service to both Churches without prejudice or discrimination to either side. In fact, I could use the experience and knowledge I have gained in Mormonism to make many useful suggestions and recommendations to improve various aspects of Catholicism; and to give them that advice in sincerity and without prejudice. I am equally sure that I would be able to learn many lessons from the Catholic Church’s long history and traditions which I could apply to improve several aspects of Mormonism.

If I were the Pope, I would ask a Mormon General Authority to become one of my spiritual advisors! I am sure he would be willing to give the Pope such advice sincerely, impartially, and without prejudice or discrimination. I am no General Authority, but I think that I can give such good advice to the Catholic Church. I will show you one example. At the moment the Catholic Church is experiencing serious difficulty in recruiting high quality priests to the ranks of its ministry. I think they would be able to alleviate that problem greatly by lifting the ban on priestly celibacy and allowing priests to marry. How do I know? Because of my experience of Mormonism. In the LDS Church, it works the other way! I have never met a Mormon bishop, or stake president, or General Authority, who wasn’t married; and they render fantastic service in the LDS Church. They would be able to do the same in the Catholic Church. I could think of lots more examples like this.

 

[Religio71]

Mother Therese was being a missionary by doing good works. She said that her mission was to bring people to christ through her good works. Mother Therese was doing religion. And that was her calling in life. Mother Therese did universalism through her acts of loving others.

You’re contradicting yourself. First you say it shouldn’t matter about dogma, and cite Mother Theresa. Now you’re saying that she wanted to bring people to Christ through her work. Which is it? Did she want people to remain hindus, muslims, etc., or did she want them to come to Christ? That sounds like a dogmatic change if she wants them to leave their religions and come to Christ.

Mother Theresa did not teach universalism, and did not believe that love along was all you needed to be saved.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I have never met a Mormon bishop, or stake president, or General Authority, who wasn’t married; and they render fantastic service in the LDS Church.

How amazing, they’re all married. Hint: It is a requirement of your church that they are married.

They would be able to do the same in the Catholic Church.

No, they could not.

I could think of lots more examples like this.

I’m sure you could.

Just another mormon, firing up another religion.

 

[Religio71]

I think that I could be a Catholic and Mormon as the same time, and render loyal service to both Churches without prejudice or discrimination to either side. In fact, I could use the experience and knowledge I have gained in Mormonism to make many useful suggestions and recommendations to improve various aspects of Catholicism; and to give them that advice in sincerity and without prejudice. I am equally sure that I would be able to learn many lessons from the Catholic Church’s long history and traditions which I could apply to improve several aspects of Mormonism.

If I were the Pope, I would ask a Mormon General Authority to become one of my spiritual advisors! I am sure he would be willing to give the Pope such advice sincerely, impartially, and without prejudice or discrimination. I am no General Authority, but I think that I can give such good advice to the Catholic Church. I will show you one example. At the moment the Catholic Church is experiencing serious difficulty in recruiting high quality priests to the ranks of its ministry. I think they can alleviate that problem greatly by lifting the ban on priestly celibacy and allowing priests to marry. How do I know? Because of my experience of Mormonism. In the LDS Church, it works the other way! I have never met a Mormon bishop, or stake president, or General Authority, who wasn’t married; and they render fantastic service in the LDS Church. They would be able to do the same in the Catholic Church. I could think of lots more such examples.

I think you ignore the doctrinal contradictions involved in being Mormon and Catholic. See my post above. It isn’t just about having priests marry or not drinking coffee. It is about who you believe God is, and where you believe priesthood authority is. What does it mean to “render service”? Would you be able to hold priesthood in the LDS Church and in the Catholic church in good conscience?

Actually, the Catholic Church showed an increase in seminarians this year. But thanks for the concern. The funny thing is, churches that have no celibacy rule are having difficulty with people going into the clergy. And you ignore that the Catholic Church already has married priests! The majority of priests in the Eastern Catholic churches are married. Permanent Deacons in the Roman and Eastern Catholic churches are married, as are transitional deacons in the Eastern Catholic churches.

The fundamental point of your argument is that: none of the things you mention require one becoming another religion, to investigate.

 

[SkinnyJay]

I think that I could be a Catholic and Mormon as the same time, and render loyal service to both Churches without prejudice or discrimination to either side. In fact, I could use the experience and knowledge I have gained in Mormonism to make many useful suggestions and recommendations to improve various aspects of Catholicism; and to give them that advice in sincerity and without prejudice. I am equally sure that I would be able to learn many lessons from the Catholic Church’s long history and traditions which I could apply to improve several aspects of Mormonism.

If I were the Pope…,

Sounds like in your mind, you already are.

 

[Stephen168]

And they believe in the right to an abortion…

So do Mormons

 

[why_me]

Who said that was okay or that it wasn’t heretical? Show us where I said that.

Mormons believe in a different God than traditional Christians, thus they are not Christians according to the traditional definition. Lutherans and Episcopalians believe in the same God as Catholics, Mormons do not.

Religio71
Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 2009
Posts: 470
Religion: former LDS, currently Catholic

Re: WhyMe and others: Can you Be Catholic and LDS at the same time?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by why me
They believe that gays can be priests. And they believe in the right to an abortion…and they believe in women priests…And the lutherans have a transvestaite priest. So, If I support all this I am still a christian?

None of those are heretical theologies on God.

I think that you said it above.

 

[zerinus]

I think you ignore the doctrinal contradictions involved in being Mormon and Catholic.

The doctrinal differences would not hinder me from being a Mormon and Catholic at the same time.

Would you be able to hold priesthood in the LDS Church and in the Catholic church in good conscience?

The RCC does not expect me to have the priesthood. Only LDS does. That solves that problem.

Actually, the Catholic Church showed an increase in seminarians this year.

Quality is more important than quantity.

But thanks for the concern. The funny thing is, churches that have no celibacy rule are having difficulty with people going into the clergy.

The Catholic Church is different from Protestant churches. It is not only more numerous; but those of them that are active and committed are more dedicated.

And you ignore that the Catholic Church already has married priests! The majority of priests in the Eastern Catholic churches are married. Permanent Deacons in the Roman and Eastern Catholic churches are married, as are transitional deacons in the Eastern Catholic churches.

I was talking about the Roman Catholic Church, not any old church. Several years ago the Pope excommunicated an African Bishop because he had ordained four married priests.

 

[Religio71]

Religio71
Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 2009
Posts: 470
Religion: former LDS, currently Catholic

Re: WhyMe and others: Can you Be Catholic and LDS at the same time?

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by why me
They believe that gays can be priests. And they believe in the right to an abortion…and they believe in women priests…And the lutherans have a transvestaite priest. So, If I support all this I am still a christian?

None of those are heretical theologies on God.

I think that you said it above.

Uh, that would make much more sense if I said “none of those are heretical theologies OF/FROM God”

I said that none of those are heretical teachings ON God, such as God the Father having a body of flesh and bones, which makes Mormonism outside of traditional Christianity. Episcopalians and Lutherans do not have heretical teachings on God.

 

[why_me]

You’re contradicting yourself. First you say it shouldn’t matter about dogma, and cite Mother Theresa. Now you’re saying that she wanted to bring people to Christ through her work. Which is it? Did she want people to remain hindus, muslims, etc., or did she want them to come to Christ? That sounds like a dogmatic change if she wants them to leave their religions and come to Christ.

Mother Theresa did not teach universalism, and did not believe that love along was all you needed to be saved.

Mother Therese did not cite dogma to the people she helped. She brought people closer to god through her help. And if people chose to remain hindus or muslims, she still helped them through her work. She did universalism through her missionary work. My whole premise is to be like Saint Therese, the little flower. Bring forth heaven on earth by doing good through simple ways.

Unfortunately for the dogmatist, they seem to be focused on mocking other faiths, bashing other faiths, and being inquisitors.

 

[why_me]

Uh, that would make much more sense if I said “none of those are heretical theologies OF/FROM God”

I said that none of those are heretical teachings ON God, such as God the Father having a body of flesh and bones, which makes Mormonism outside of traditional Christianity. Episcopalians and Lutherans do not have heretical teachings on God.

Just fess up that you made a mistake and all will be forgiven.

 

[Religio71]

The doctrinal differences would not hinder me from being a Mormon and Catholic at the same time.

The RCC does not expect me to have the priesthood. Only LDS does. That solves that problem.

Quality is more important than quantity.

The Catholic Church is different from Protestant churches. It is not only more numerous; but those of them that are active and committed are more dedicated.

I was talking about the Roman Catholic Church, not any old church. Several years ago the Pope excommunicated an African Bishop because he had ordained four married priests.

Zerinus, I advise you to read more about Catholicism before taking about it. How are the Eastern Catholic churches “any old church”??? Fact of the matter is if you want to be a married priest in the Catholic Church, you can.

So you would ignore the doctrinal differences? Can you believe that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, and that he restored the Church, AND be Catholic?

Ok, so you don’t hold the Catholic priesthood. Would you BELIEVE in it? If so, you deny one of the fundamental Mormon doctrines, that only it has priesthood power and authority.

Obviously quality over quantity. However it was you that said the Catholic Church is experiencing difficulty in gaining high quality priests because of celibacy. However, it is clear that generally, our priests are of high quality, and the number of people going into seminaries has increased, showing that this “celibacy dilemma” isn’t really one. And of course, we have plenty of married priests in the Catholic Church.

 

[Religio71]

Just fess up that you made a mistake and all will be forgiven.

I didn’t. Tell me how abortion is a “theology ON God”, and how that makes grammatical sense. Follow the discussion, we repeatedly say that Mormons believe that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones, which is a “theology ON God”. Abortion is not.

 

[Religio71]

Mother Therese did not cite dogma to the people she helped. She brought people closer to god through her help. And if people chose to remain hindus or muslims, she still helped them through her work. She did universalism through her missionary work. My whole premise is to be like Saint Therese, the little flower. Bring forth heaven on earth by doing good through simple ways.

Unfortunately for the dogmatist, they seem to be focused on mocking other faiths, bashing other faiths, and being inquisitors.

Is God being Trinity a dogma? Was it important that that was revealed to us? Or is it ok to believe that God is actually millions of gods making one, like many Hindus believe?

Was it important dogma that Jesus said the only way to the Father is through Him? I’m sure Mother Theresa believed this, seeing how she was Catholic.