WhyMe and others: Can you Be Catholic and LDS at the same time?

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Religio71 said:
Is God being Trinity a dogma? Was it important that that was revealed to us? Or is it ok to believe that God is actually millions of gods making one, like many Hindus believe?

Was it important dogma that Jesus said the only way to the Father is through Him? I’m sure Mother Theresa believed this, seeing how she was Catholic.
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You whole take is to bash through doctrine. Of course, you are a former mormon and so it is important for you to justify your decision and using dogma is one way to do it. But usually nothing is changed by your actions in this matter. I believe—you believe actually doesn’t work. However, by following the way of certain saints who were missionaries through their works on earth, is one way to bring people to an awareness of the faith.

How many catholics have shown me kindness on this thread or on the other mormon threads? None. Zero. And that shows me that these catholics are far from their faith.

In fact, I have behaved more catholic than the catholic dogmatists on these threads.
 
why_me said:
You whole take is to bash through doctrine. Of course, you are a former mormon and so it is important for you to justify your decision and using dogma is one way to do it. But usually nothing is changed by your actions in this matter. I believe—you believe actually doesn’t work. However, by following the way of certain saints who were missionaries through their works on earth, is one way to bring people to an awareness of the faith.

How many catholics have shown me kindness on this thread or on the other mormon threads? None. Zero. And that shows me that these catholics are far from their faith.

In fact, I have behaved more catholic than the catholic dogmatists on these threads.
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What is dogma? Do we need it? Why? If you can answer those questions, you may understand what every Catholic on this thread has been talking about.

From the almighty wikipedia:

"Dogma is the established belief or doctrine held by a religion, ideology or any kind of organization: it is authoritative and not to be disputed, doubted or diverged from."

Dogmas are the beliefs of a religion. Take those away, and you have a different religion. Neither Catholicism nor Mormonism is a universalist religion. Catholicism and Mormonism cannot both be correct at the same time. Mormonism says only they have the priesthood authority. So either they do or they don’t. We both can’t have it. Mormonism says that there was a Great Apostasy. Catholicism says the Church and authority have always been here on earth. Either it happened or it didn’t. This is the fundamental argument about why you cannot be Catholic and Mormon at the same time. You seem to ignore the actual dogma, as in, what makes a religion, and instead focus on whether one drinks coffee or not, as if that is defining of the foundation of a religion.

How do the LDS missionaries work? You of all people should know that there is a difference between a proselytizing missionary and a service missionary. Mother Theresa is a perfect example of a service missionary, who was not interested in proselytizing. And it’s too funny that you ignore the proselytizing of LDS missionaries, and that coming to a faith is not about loving everyone, but about accepting doctrine (DOGMA) that you come to believe is true. Religions are defined by their dogma, not by love, which is found both within and without religions. Love has a different context and meaning in religions.
 
why_me said:
They believe that gays can be priests. And they believe in the right to an abortion…and they believe in women priests…And the lutherans have a transvestaite priest. So, If I support all this I am still a christian? :confused:
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Religio71 said:
Who said that was okay or that it wasn’t heretical? Show us where I said that.

Mormons believe in a different God than traditional Christians, thus they are not Christians according to the traditional definition. Lutherans and Episcopalians believe in the same God as Catholics, Mormons do not.
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Its a typical strawman argument. They bring up something totally unrelated to the discussion to “prove” us wrong.

It is a fact that Mormons are not Christians. Just look at the list of beliefs you gave.

I is useless discussing this with them when they refuse to admit that what they believe is different than what Christians believe. If they can not be honest about that, how can we trust that they are honest on anything else?
 
Religio71 said:
So you would ignore the doctrinal differences? Can you believe that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, and that he restored the Church, AND be Catholic? :rolleyes:
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I would, if the Catholic Church was willing to baptize me! Would the Catholic Church refuse to baptize me otherwise? If they did, then I couldn’t become a Catholic. But I am not sure that they would.
Ok, so you don’t hold the Catholic priesthood. Would you BELIEVE in it? If so, you deny one of the fundamental Mormon doctrines, that only it has priesthood power and authority.
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No I wouldn’t. If that prevented me from becoming a Catholic, then I couldn’t be. But if they didn’t insist on that, I could. At the moment I don’t know for sure what their reaction to that would be.
Obviously quality over quantity. However it was you that said the Catholic Church is experiencing difficulty in gaining high quality priests because of celibacy. However, it is clear that generally, our priests are of high quality, . . .
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Some of them are; but many of them aren’t.
 
zerinus said:
I would, if the Catholic Church was willing to baptize me! Would the Catholic Church refuse to baptize me otherwise? If they did, then I couldn’t become a Catholic. But I am not sure that they would.
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So you would believe that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God, and that the LDS Church is the restored Church, meaning that all other churches are apostasized, and yet you’d still want to be in the Catholic Church. That makes NO sense.
No I wouldn’t. If that prevented me from becoming a Catholic, then I couldn’t be. But if they didn’t insist on that, I could. At the moment I don’t know for sure what their reaction to that would be.
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That is too funny. You’d deny the priesthood of Catholicism, yet you’d still want to be under its authority. How do you even rationalize that? The whole point of the Catholic Church is that it has the authority from God to effect the Eucharist, the greatest sacrament in the Church. At the moment I’m quite sure of the reaction, as are other actual Catholics.
Some of them are; but many of them aren’t.
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The majority of them are, in my actual experience as an actual Catholic.
 
Religio71 said:
…
Dogmas are the beliefs of a religion. Take those away, and you have a different religion. Neither Catholicism nor Mormonism is a universalist religion. Catholicism and Mormonism cannot both be correct at the same time. Mormonism says only they have the priesthood authority. So either they do or they don’t. We both can’t have it. Mormonism says that there was a Great Apostasy. Catholicism says the Church and authority have always been here on earth. Either it happened or it didn’t. This is the fundamental argument about why you cannot be Catholic and Mormon at the same time. You seem to ignore the actual dogma, as in, what makes a religion, and instead focus on whether one drinks coffee or not, as if that is defining of the foundation of a religion.

How do the LDS missionaries work? You of all people should know that there is a difference between a proselytizing missionary and a service missionary. Mother Theresa is a perfect example of a service missionary, who was not interested in proselytizing. And it’s too funny that you ignore the proselytizing of LDS missionaries, and that coming to a faith is not about loving everyone, but about accepting doctrine (DOGMA) that you come to believe is true. Religions are defined by their dogma, not by love, which is found both within and without religions. Love has a different context and meaning in religions.
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:tiphat: Good answer.
 
Religio71 said:
So you would believe that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God, and that the LDS Church is the restored Church, meaning that all other churches are apostasized, and yet you’d still want to be in the Catholic Church. That makes NO sense.
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To me it does!
That is too funny. You’d deny the priesthood of Catholicism, yet you’d still want to be under its authority. How do you even rationalize that?
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I wouldn’t be under its authority. It doesn’t have any. But it often displays a wisdom that I am willing to accept.
The whole point of the Catholic Church is that it has the authority from God to effect the Eucharist, the greatest sacrament in the Church. At the moment I’m quite sure of the reaction, as are other actual Catholics.
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From my point of view it would be like being a member of a fraternal organization.
The majority of them are, in my actual experience as an actual Catholic.
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Perhaps they are, but I think that many of them also aren’t.
 
why_me said:
You whole take is to bash through doctrine. Of course, you are a former mormon and so it is important for you to justify your decision and using dogma is one way to do it. …

How many catholics have shown me kindness on this thread or on the other mormon threads? None. Zero. And that shows me that these catholics are far from their faith.

In fact, I have behaved more catholic than the catholic dogmatists on these threads.
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This comment was addressed to Religio71 who is a former Mormon, but I am commenting on it since i have been following this thread.

This is a place where people discuss doctrine. Maybe you think doctrine doesn’t matter? Perhaps when you say you are Catholic and then vigorously defend Mormon doctrine and particularly when you defend highly offensive past Mormon practices, and when you are the faithful unwavering aoplogist for that scoundrel Smith, people here get frustrated. They very reasonably refute wrong and untruthful things you stand behind - because truth matters! - and try to understand where you are coming from - and yet all best efforts are for naught? And perhaps you take that frustration with your illogical unreasonable stance personally?

Because it is illogical. But this thread has been useful because the answer is out, IMO: I think you feel that to stand by your good daughters you need to stand by Mormonism, and by Joseph Smith - - polygamy and polyamory and statutory rape and all. Its an emotional position rooted in the powerful core of motherhood, and logical argument gets nowhere.

Its not fair to say people here have not been kind. People have been kind to you, understanding and patient. That people say *GAH! *and want to throw in the towel after no true point, painstakingly explained, is validated, does not invalidate all the times they were kind and patient.

There is something I’ve seen repeat itself in these Mormon threads. In the course of a deep discussion where no point of truth, no matter how carefully framed, is acknowledged, impatience is provoked. Then immediately the ‘Provoker’ invokes righteous pleasantness to the ‘Provoked’. A kind of a “How nice to communicate with you. See, I’m calm and you’re so mad; I’m more Christian. What are you mad for, anyway. Be at peace like me, a Mormon. Have a nice day now!”

I’m not pinning this on you, WhyMe. I just thought this would be a good place to bring up that observation.
 
ByzCath said:
Its a typical strawman argument. They bring up something totally unrelated to the discussion to “prove” us wrong.

It is a fact that Mormons are not Christians. Just look at the list of beliefs you gave.

I is useless discussing this with them when they refuse to admit that what they believe is different than what Christians believe. If they can not be honest about that, how can we trust that they are honest on anything else?
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It is a fact that we are not orthodox Christians, or Orthodox Christians, or trinitarian Christians. We are, however, Christian.
 
zerinus said:
I would, if the Catholic Church was willing to baptize me! Would the Catholic Church refuse to baptize me otherwise? If they did, then I couldn’t become a Catholic. But I am not sure that they would.

No I wouldn’t. If that prevented me from becoming a Catholic, then I couldn’t be. But if they didn’t insist on that, I could. At the moment I don’t know for sure what their reaction to that would be.

Some of them are; but many of them aren’t.
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Ok, that’s not accurate. Yes, the Catholic priesthood has been hit with some very bad publicity lately as a result of some of them being very nasty indeed. However, those priests that have disgraced their callings are very much in the minority; the majority of them by far are honorable men who have sacrificed a great deal in order to serve God in the way they feel called upon to serve.

It’s not as if there is any other church out there that is completely free of such scandal, y’know, ours included.

You cannot blame the belief system for the actions of those who break its rules.
 
dianaiad said:
Ok, that’s not accurate. Yes, the Catholic priesthood has been hit with some very bad publicity lately as a result of some of them being very nasty indeed. However, those priests that have disgraced their callings are very much in the minority; the majority of them by far are honorable men who have sacrificed a great deal in order to serve God in the way they feel called upon to serve.

It’s not as if there is any other church out there that is completely free of such scandal, y’know, ours included.

You cannot blame the belief system for the actions of those who break its rules.
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Thank you diana! 👍
 
I heartily support the Mormon’s firm rejection of liquid caffeinated consumables.
 
dianaiad said:
Ok, that’s not accurate. Yes, the Catholic priesthood has been hit with some very bad publicity lately as a result of some of them being very nasty indeed. However, those priests that have disgraced their callings are very much in the minority; the majority of them by far are honorable men who have sacrificed a great deal in order to serve God in the way they feel called upon to serve.

It’s not as if there is any other church out there that is completely free of such scandal, y’know, ours included.

You cannot blame the belief system for the actions of those who break its rules.
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👍👍👍
 
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