Will America become socialist now that Biden has basically won?

[po18guy]

Watch this. A press briefing by Rudy Giuliani and two others detailing evidence to be presented in court. You will not believe where the voting software originated. The (D) “news” organizations are in full swing to mislead the voters. This will all come out in court - as it should. It was live, so no sound until about 6:25. Mountains of affidavits and mounting evidence. Not a peep from Democrats - who could lose elections the same way! Not a peep. I wonder why…

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

So wouldn’t it be an advantage to you to have free health care if you couldn’t afford it?

A friend of mine has been stage 4 cancer for something between 4 and 5 years.

He has been on an experimental drug for something like a year and a hal or two years; and he is in his early 70’s.

That experimental drug has an effective cost of $45,000 per treatment, and he gets a treatment weekly.

that cost is $45,000 x 52 so that equals $2,340,000 for one year. Granted it is experimental, and will likely cost less if introduced after approval.

You might want to do some math by doing some research as to how many people would be getting free health care times the average cost, per year; it may take a bit of research, but you are talking about how many billions of dollars of cost, if not more, per year.

Currently the government is having problems funding Medicare adequately (and there are a multitude of issues about Medicare, including payment structures such that most doctors will not take a “Medicare only” patient. Medicare for all is in essence free care; and there is not enough money anywhere to fund it. But then, a certain Congresswoman who allegedly has a degree in economics keeps pushing it.

Free health care does not mean that limitless amounts of money would be thrown around. Your friend has my sympathy. But if he’s being used to test the drug then that is a completely different matter. If he lived in Australia then the same situation might prevail if it was an experimental drug. But he almost certainly wouldn’t get it for free if it were a proven remedy. You need to pay for your own prescription drugs and they can be expensive in some cases and you can apply for a refund in some cases.

But there is a limited amount of money available and it’s used where it will do the most good. Which means that a considerable proportion of the population who can’t afford private health care get covered for a considerable amount of problems that they may suffer. But it’s not a bottomless well of money.

 

[Freddy]

Watch this. A press briefing by Rudy Guilliani…

Someone should tell these losers that the circus has left town. Do you know why they haven’t got high profile Republican lawyers expert in election law working on this instead of this motely crew? They have reputations to maintain. Guilliani hasn’t.

Meanwhile I think you may have passed the quarter of a milion deaths due to Covid 19 and still there is a refusal to pass on information to the Biden team that they will need to hit the ground running in January.

Nero fiddled while Rome burned. Trump is out playing golf (I’m retired and he’s played more than I have in the last ten days) while his countrymen and women die in the hundreds each day and he desperately tries to dismantle the democratic process.

He is beneath contempt.

 

[Freddy]

And get this. The voting software was designed umder the specific instructions of Hugo Chavez (dead for some time now)! And listen to Jenna Ellis, one of the motley crew:

‘It affects votes around the country, around the world and all kinds of massive interest of globalists, dictators, corporations. You name it. Everybody’s against us except President Trump’.

Apart from the fact that that made absolutely no sense at all, it was all said with ZERO evidence. And I mean zero. Nada. Nothing at all. This is really tin foil hat territory. Did anyone ask her why the same software (funded by globalists, dictators and left wing corporations!) and operated by their minions gave Trump a ‘landslide’ 4 years ago? Was that part of the conspiracy?

And they have put forward 31 submissions to courts in 4 states so far and they had a minor success in one. The other thirty were tossed out. Worthless. And why? ZERO evidence.

This would be classed as a farce in some tin pot banana republic. But this is America. And we watch in horror as these clowns attempt to dismantle democracy.

Shame on them all.

 

[po18guy]

Nothing like an open mind!

And a little patience.

You do know that the Republicans can use this cheating info to steal all future democrat elections? Why are the (D) not worried about that?

Why indeed.

 

[Freddy]

Nothing like an open mind!

And a little patience.

You do know that the Republicans can use this cheating info to steal all future democrat elections? Why are the (D) not worried about that?

Why indeed.

It. Doesn’t. Exist.

That’s why they didn’t use it 4 years ago when they lost by a similar ‘landslide’. That’s why they didn’t use it to win the Senate in this election. And why they didn’t use it in the midterms. That’s why they didn’t use it to get a large enough majority in Georgia to prevent a manual recount which would have highlighted any discrepancy with the software. Which they just had and no discrepancy was found.

All this is doing is welding on the already rusted on supporters that Trump has. It doesn’t matter how many cases are thrown out of court. It doesn’t matter that there is zero evidence for fraud. It doesn’t matter that these conspiracy theories are on par with what the most lunatic fringe dwelling, tin foil hat wearing, bat crazy Qanon miscreants could come up with. Some of this mud is going to stick and you will constantly hear over the next four years of the Biden presidency all the basement warriors screeching over the web about how the election was stolen.

How about some senior Republican get off his rear and say ‘We lost. It hurts. We didn’t do well enough. I promise our supporters that we will find out where we went wrong and correct it. But this is democracy. America has voted and they voted for Biden. It is now incumbant upon us all to help him in any way we can to beat this virus.’

Any chance of that anytime soon? Or is Trump going to play the GOP for fools right up until the inauguration and drag them down with him. Are there no honourable men in the party?

 

[otjm]

Free health care does not mean that limitless amounts of money would be thrown around.

Then you might qualify what it is that those who have no insurance will get. “Free health care” is the mantra, but no one seems to take the time to say what it is that will be delivered. And not to make too fine a point of it, the decisions as to what is not covered will bring about cries of “death squads” - meaning, for example, if stage 4 cancer is not covered, you are gonna die - which you would have done anyways without “free health coverage”. That (coverage) allegedly is what was to be covered by the Obamacare plan - everyone would be covered (but limitations apply).

But he almost certainly wouldn’t get it for free if it were a proven remedy.

he is not getting it for free - he has Kaiser coverage with their top plan - he is a businessman with his own business and can afford the top coverage. Because it is experimental and Kaiser has access to it, he gets it - and if he did not have that top plan, it is debatable he would.

a considerable proportion of the population who can’t afford private health care get covered for a considerable amount of problems that they may suffer. But it’s not a bottomless well of money.

We have Obamacare which was supposed to make plans available to all and was subsidized for the poor.

Medicare for all is a dumbing down, one size fits all plan which no one has been able to wrap their arms around in terms of total cost - it would most definitely mean a loss of coverage for many. We already have a government run health care system - the Veterans Administration, and until Trump came along, in many areas it was between poor and a freaking disaster. I didn’t follow all of it but it appears he somehow got around the unions and some people got replaced; the new administration has vowed to turn around his changes, which means we get to go back to a system that has little or no accountability. And the liberal left wants more of that (not that they would ever admit it - facts don’t matter in that conversation)?

 

[po18guy]

To be further “provocative”, here is what the Church teaches and how the candidates match up with it. Let those who have ears hear…

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

Free health care does not mean that limitless amounts of money would be thrown around.

Then you might qualify what it is that those who have no insurance will get.

Here’s the web page for the Australian health system. If’ll take you a couple of minutes to read the basics.

https://www.health.gov.au/about-us/the-australian-health-system

If you have any specific questions I might be able to answer them but I’m no expert. My wife worked in admin at the local hospital so she might have an anwer if I haven’t got one.

 

[otjm]

I appreciate your offer. However, we are likely to go in a different direction; in a recent poll, better than half of the respondents did not want to lose their insurance.

Health care is costly, and will become more costly as time goes by. There are a multitude of issues which need to be addressed, and it is questionable as to how they will be worked out - or if some of them will ever be worked out.

A very significant cost of health insurance is the mandate from Obamacare that pre-existing conditions be covered. The net result of that is that everyone has had to pay far, far more in insurance than previous to Obamacare, as pre existing conditions were generally (but not always) a matter either not covered, or resulted in a refusal to cover.

I am not going to argue the point, but we were sold a bill of goods that was ram-rodded through with a series of “promises”, many of which proved to be either non-existent, or outright lies. If and when further changes are made to our method of health care systems, some of that may be addressed; given the widening divide between the two parties and the inability to have a conversation makes that difficult. However, presuming for the moment that in January Biden will be sworn in as President, this election has shown that the Democrats did not get a “bill of sale” on all of the proposals floating around and pretty much across the board and across the US, people were not interested in the more “progressive” positions floated by Democrats. How that will play out with Joe’s comments that he will be addressing health care remains to be seen.

 

[Freddy]

I appreciate your offer. However, we are likely to go in a different direction; in a recent poll, better than half of the respondents did not want to lose their insurance.

Can’t you keep the insurance you have OR opt into the new health system? That’s the choice we have. You can skip private insurance but those over a certain income then have to pay the 2% levy. If you have private insurance you don’t pay the levy.

If I had insurance via my job then I wouldn’t want to lose it either. Would you have to?

 

[whatistrue]

There were commercials running

That’s not how I remember it. I did see an article this morning about Trump’s shifting of strategy from failed lawsuits to trying to convince state legislators (but only in certain states) to put party over the people and pick electors themselves, ignoring the vote. It was described as unprecedented, but that could refer to no President acting in such a way before.

This had never happened before, and certainly was never played to in such a way.

I do remember the 2000 election where some people pointed out that there was no Constitutional requirement that a state even have a vote for selecting Electors for President and Vice President, but it was just a lot of talk and bluster; no one as far as I am aware took it all that seriously.

 

[whatistrue]

Any time the title of an article or video includes TRUTH in all caps I react pretty much the same way as I do to someone who constantly insists he is honest and trustworthy when no one else is saying anything about him. Anyone can say anything, and many do; the trick is separating the wheat from the chaff, and this rule of thumb has worked well for me over the years in doing so.

 

[Dracarys]

johnz123:

Well first it starts with medicare for all, then maybe free college tuition, then other things.

So a Catholic can be a socialist? Because what you just cited are things a Catholic can be in favor of.

Sure, anyone who wants free handouts can be in favor of these things, but I already showed you where Pope John Paul II wrote against socialism. Just because you get a government benefit does not mean it’s free. Someone’s wealth was confiscated to pay for it.

 

[Dracarys]

Meanwhile I think you may have passed the quarter of a milion deaths due to Covid 19 and still there is a refusal to pass on information to the Biden team that they will need to hit the ground running in January.

That is just more Democrat exaggerated nonsense. Do you think President Trump has some secret knowledge about COVID that he gleefully has hidden away in a safe at the oval office? Even sleepy Joe already knows everything there is to know.

We have President Trump’ s administration to thank for the vacine. Biden and even Fauci had nothing to do with it. Of course no one will ever give President Trump any credit for the great things he did for this country and the world.

 

[Dracarys]

To be further “provocative”, here is what the Church teaches and how the candidates match up with it. Let those who have ears hear…

This priest gives fact after fact backed up with Church teaching and edicts from the Popes. I wish this video had been played in every church before November 3.

It would be good if many Catholics reviewed Pope Benedict’s list of “non-negotiables.”

 

[blackforest]

That is just more Democrat exaggerated nonsense.

@Freddy is Australian, so . . . .

Do you think President Trump has some secret knowledge about COVID that he gleefully has hidden away in a safe at the oval office?

Presidents are actually privy to a lot of information that the public isn’t, including in cases of a pandemic. If he refuses to hand it over, is he hiding something? Or just throwing a tantrum that he lost the election?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

It would be good if many Catholics reviewed Pope Benedict’s list of “non-negotiables.”

If you mean the “Five non-negotiables”, that list did not come from Pope Benedict, but from Priests for Life, an unofficial organization not part of the Church.

Do you think President Trump has some secret knowledge about COVID that he gleefully has hidden away in a safe at the oval office?

Trump himself has not attended covid task force meetings for months, and I doubt he personally knows anything about covid. His reasons for refusing to cooperate are based on his toxic narcissism that refuses to believe that he lost the election. He care more about himself than the good of the nation.

 

[vz71]

That’s not how I remember it.

 

[whatistrue]

“Not widespread” and “didn’t happen” aren’t the same thing. It was sound and fury signifying nothing, just like Trump’s current tantrums.