Witnesses tell FBI that George Zimmerman is no racist

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kelvinf said:
Again and again, we haven’t seen the injuries that reflect a face that was repeatedly punched and a head that was bashed several times on the concrete.
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The responding officers did.

Or should we also dismiss their testimony?
 
kelvinf said:
I don’t dismiss the fact that Martin may have hit Zimmerman. What I clearly dismiss is the gunning down of this boy based on a story that’s unbelievable and how all this started.

It might have been, if the police asked him to do so. On the contrary, he was instructed not to follow the kid.(!)
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What took place before it became physical isn’t really relevant as we have discussed many times. If Martin did hit Zimmerman - than his self defense claim may very well be substantiated.

Keep in mind the police didn’t instruct him not to either… last time I looked 911 operators have not authority. It would be no different than you asking him not to do it. I think we can both agree that it may not have been the smartest move - but that is about all we can say about it…
 
kelvinf said:
Again and again, we haven’t seen the injuries that reflect a face that was repeatedly punched and a head that was bashed several times on the concrete.
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And in your medical opinion what injuries should we have seen to make this believable? How many times would it have to occur for it to be “repeatedly” or “several”? What are you basing you opinion on which would lead us to believe it?
 
seekerz said:
After a wreck are you required to PROVE that your life was in danger?
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Missed this earlier - but you missed my point.

The stress of traumatic event is high and people deal with stress differently. The body deals with injuries differently when under high stress. The accident example was to show that point - that in many cases people walk away from a scene thinking they are fine and refusing transport. Later they realize it was a bit more then what they had initially thought.

If Zimmerman did indeed act in self defense, I would think proving his innocence was not on the forefront of his mind. Pure speculation on my part - but typically when you haven’t committed a crime you don’t build a defense just in case.
 
vz71 said:
The responding officers did.

Or should we also dismiss their testimony?
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Police report states that Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose and the back of his head.(!)

“Bleeding tenderness to his nose, and a small laceration to the back of his head. All injuries have minor bleeding,” paramedic.(!)

Nobody is dismissing that.

Does that reflect Zimmerman’s claim that Martin kept punching his face and bashed his head several times against the concrete…? Then, the one hand on the nose and the other hand bashing the head? In case you missed it, I had previously pointed out that.
mtbender said:
And in your medical opinion what injuries should we have seen to make this believable? How many times would it have to occur for it to be “repeatedly” or “several”? What are you basing you opinion on which would lead us to believe it?
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This ordeal lasted for [44, 115] seconds; and that is without considering the time the first caller took to make the call. Of course several means more than once or twice or thrice and kept punching means kept punching. What there to understand?

If you keep punching someone on the face, they would sustain injuries other than a bleeding nose. Of course, there no doubt that the severity of the injuries would reflect the applied force. Minute injuries reflect the kind of assault or don’t they?

I am trying to imagine a society where an armed adult, who sustains minor injuries during a confrontation with an unarmed teenager would be justified to kill the teen.

And in case you missed or ignored it, I will post this again:

Sanford Police Det. Chris Serino told Zimmerman in a series of interviews that day that he was a “good guy,” but that there were holes in his story, including minor injuries that did not match the beating he said he received at the hands of a “child” who carried candy.
 
kelvinf said:
I am trying to imagine a society where an armed adult, who sustains minor injuries during a confrontation with an unarmed teenager would be justified to kill the teen.
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So how badly must I be hurt, in your mind, before I can take action? Keep in mind the teenager was 6 foot 3.
 
kelvinf said:
Of course it matters. Or how do you think a motive could be determined?
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The prosecution will have to prove motive to get a murder 2 conviction.

If Zimmerman is the murderous racist some here paint him to be, why not just shoot the unarmed teenager in the back?

I don’t see it.
 
maryjk said:
So how badly must I be hurt, in your mind, before I can take action? Keep in mind the teenager was 6 foot 3.
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Apparently, you are justified in assaulting someone if they call 911 on you, follow you, or consider you “suspicious”.

But if your nose is broken and your head banged into concrete (“minor” injuries!), you just have to man-up and take your beating.
 
maryjk said:
So how badly must I be hurt, in your mind, before I can take action? Keep in mind the teenager was 6 foot 3.
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Does height mean power? And he was just slightly taller than Zimmerman–by about 10 cm.

I cannot answer that question but maybe you can.(?) Does the law define that? Is it possible to define it?

What is clear is that, when you take action, you would be held accountable for your action. Again, people have done crazy things and claim SYG. But they are held accountable.

In this case, I am saying the shooting was clearly uncalled for!
 
scipio337 said:
Apparently, you are justified in assaulting someone if they call 911 on you, follow you, or consider you “suspicious”.

But if your nose is broken and your head banged into concrete (“minor” injuries!), you just have to man-up and take your beating.
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What about manning-up and pushing the kid away or fighting back? So the adult just has to man-up and dominate in grabbing the gun and shooting?

And just to reiterate, this beating Zimmerman claims he received from Martin is one of the weirdest things in this story.
 
vz71 said:
You have been proclaiming the guilt of Zimmerman and the innocence of Trayvon for nearly the entire discussion.

On what you now admit is a lack of evidence.
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:confused: You sound like you need a rest from this thread. I admitted no such thing. A poster declared there was physical evidence to suggest Martin was the attacker. I simply requested it.
 
vz71 said:
Earlier in the thread you claimed he lacked any credibility and we should not listen at all to his testimony.

So which of you should I believe?

The one that said earlier that I should not listen to Zimmerman?
Or the one now that wants to take every word at face value?

I am having difficulty keeping up with your stories.
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Strange, you seem to have no difficulty keeping up with Zimmerman’s stories…

As for the rest, if you can’t keep up with the debate I really can’t help except to advise a breather.
 
vz71 said:
The responding officers did.

Or should we also dismiss their testimony?
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The responding officers saw some injuries but did not see those injuries being inflicted. A doctor on the other hand is capable of saying whether they were consistent with being punched or bashed or whatever. Very convenient that such an examination of whatever fresh injuries existed that night was refused.
 
mtbender said:
If Zimmerman did indeed act in self defense, I would think proving his innocence was not on the forefront of his mind. Pure speculation on my part - but typically when you haven’t committed a crime you don’t build a defense just in case.
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Maybe you’re right - IF he acted in self defense. However, anyone with knowledge of law enforcement knows that you can’t simply sit back and CLAIM self defense. Anyone who’s just shot another person (in self defense or not) will be fully aware that they need to give a good explanation of their actions.
 
I wonder about those who think Zimmerman is responsible for anything other than looking out for his neighbors…I wonder how after police interviews the night of the incident, the “Master Manipulator George Zimmerman” either HAS to make something up as to what happened that night or tell the truth…not knowing whether for sure…if he does LIE…and being told there are witnesses and recordings that WOULD CONTRADICT him if he did lie and stating to interviewing police that he “hoped someone did record it”…he could be suspected of being a liar …to me…I have seen no lies in his statements. So far, no one who believes he is lying, has an answer to this.
 
Why keep this thread going? The ASPCA is going to cite CAF for dead-horse flogging.
There will be no real news (barring some proof that Martin was a drug kingpin or Zimmerman was Grand Kleagle) until the trial.

My own fact-free opinion is on record but geez, Louise, let’s all take a break.
 
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