Would anything make you seriously question the Catholic Church?

[Raxus]

Leaving America would not be a great loss because being in America isn’t a gain for African descended people.

Pure and absolute hogwash. I wish I had the privilege of a great many black folks who live in America.

 

[Raxus]

Nothing is binding on their faithful,

Sounds like a social club rather than a Church, when described that way.

 

[neophyte]

Would anything make you seriously question the Catholic Church?

The only thing I can think of would be an exercise of infallible teaching authority that directly contradicts prior infallible teaching. It’s never happened so it’s silly to worry that it might, like wondering what would it take for me to seriously wonder if my wife was really an alien.

Hypothetically, if it did that would prove that Jesus wasn’t God after all, so I’d abandon Christianity altogether. But that’s like talking about what I’d do if, hypothetically, 1+1 was really = 5.

 

[scousekiwi]

The point is, she probably did not foresee that happening, hence why she was happily a member of the Anglican Church for so many years. I’m sure many of the others who left were too, until certain decisions were made that were just too much for them.

However, the point is also that the vast majority of people did not leave the Church of England when we began ordaining women as priests. This is at least in part because they did foresee it happening and did not find the idea very strange. I was actually in New Zealand when it happened, but I observed the situation closely nonetheless.

Women had, as I say, already been ordained as deacons in 1987. One further development that I forgot to mention was the creation of the role of parish deacon. This was essentially a way of allowing a woman who had been ordained deacon and served as an assistant curate to be promoted to a role that was essentially equal to that of an incumbent or priest-in-charge.

Therefore, the idea of a woman as a priest was very much foreseeable. Indeed, I would go so far as to suggest that when the matter was before General Synod, the question was not whether women would be ordained as priests, but when it would take place and how it would be implemented and, in particular, what concessions would be offered to those who disagreed with the development.

I can only imagine what Widdecombe would think if the Catholic Church she joined in the early 90s, did the same thing the C of E has done.

The answer is that it is very unlikely to happen. There are, I think, three reasons for this. The first is that in the Catholic Church, this has been defined, unequivocally, as a matter of doctrine. The second is that the Catholic Church expects its members to accept all of its teachings. You could not have some Catholics accepting women as priests and bishops and others rejecting them. And the third is that the Catholic Church is highly centralised. If the Church were to permit the ordination of women, it would have to be a decision made by the pope, and it would have to be applied equally to all parts of the Church. If the Catholic Church were organised in a similar way to the Anglican Communion, you could foresee a scenario in which the ordination of women could be gradually rolled out, beginning with more liberal countries such as Germany, and with an option for more conservative countries, such as Poland, never to accept the change.

 

[scousekiwi]

Right, and back then I doubt anyone expected there to be women priests over one hundred years later, just because there were deaconess.

Possibly, although I think that would have more to do with the fact that in the 19th century women had extremely limited options for education and careers, let alone holding positions of public authority.

I wouldn’t be surprised if some Catholics look suspiciously at the fairly recent permitting of altar girls. If in some years deaconesses should also be allowed, I’m sure they’d get a whole lot more suspicious.

The difference is that the Catholic Church has a clear red line about this. It is possible that women may one day be admitted to some kind of diaconate. However, the Church has stated very clearly that women will never be ordained as priests.

 

[glencor63]

I’ll ask God to make your skin black, since we are so privileged

 

[glencor63]

Nothing is binding on Orthodox faithful, except scripture and the decisions of the seven ecumenical councils. You cut off my final words.

 

[Raxus]

Sorry, my bad. I’m not sure how to edit that particular part of the post. And, agreed.

 

[glencor63]

America has never been heaven for African descended people. Leaving America isn’t a huge loss. You don’t miss a home that’s treated you like hell. Anyway, this post is not about America. It was about the Catholic Church. One of my posts was removed, so I’m truly done. Peace to you and good luck!

 

[Raxus]

America has never been heaven for African descended people.

Tell that to folks like Barack Obama.

 

[Raxus]

Nothing is binding on Orthodox faithful, except scripture and the decisions of the seven ecumenical councils. You cut off my final words.

Sorry, but the praise of a church being “I don’t have to do a whole lot!” isn’t exactly a glowing endorsement. I think I’ll trust others’ view of it instead.

 

[glencor63]

I’ve done an Orthodox fast. It wasn’t easy, but helped me grow closer to Jesus. I’m not Orthodox. I have no intention of converting. I simply admire that their faithful are only bound by scripture and the seven ecumenical councils. There are no new revelations.

 

[glencor63]

It’s the epitome of hubris that you feel you can tell me, a woman whose ancestors arrived here on a slave ship in the Port of Charleston about my experience being African-American! Barack Obama is atypical. He’s actually biracial. His mother was a White woman from Kansas. His father was an African from Kenya. He grew up in Hawaii, Indonesia, and Washington state. The reason he identifies with African Americans is because he’s perceived as Black and treated accordingly.

*Please stop! It’s really offensive! I’m under no obligation to love this country.

 

[Raxus]

It’s the epitome of hubris that you feel you can tell me, a woman whose ancestors arrived here on a slave ship in the Port of Charleston about my experience being African-American!

I’m sorry your ancestors went through that. I had nothing to do with it, at all. Period.

Barack Obama is atypical. He’s actually biracial. His mother was a White woman from Kansas. His father was an African from Kenya. He grew up in Hawaii, Indonesia, and Kansas. The reason he identifies with African Americans is because he’s perceived as Black and treated accordingly.

Ah, so we’ve got the No True Scotsman fallacy going on, here. How about Morgan Freeman, then? Or Michael Jordan? Eddie Murphy? Samuel L. Jackson?

*Please stop! It’s really offensive! I’m under no obligation to love this country.

There’s zero reason for you to be offended. All I said is that I wish that I, someone who has lived in and barely above the poverty line for a very, very long time, had some of the privilege that some black people have.

And you’re certainly not under any obligation to love the USA. I’m not gonna stand silently by when you blatantly lie about it, though. I do love it, flawed though it may be, like any country.

 

[glencor63]

I never said being Orthodox was easier. I said I admired that their faithful aren’t bound to believe anything, except scripture and the decisions made at the seven ecumenical councils. I said that I believe that protects them from many errors of the Western church. My opinion.

 

[Raxus]

I never said being Orthodox was easier. I said I admired that their faithful aren’t bound to believe anything, except scripture and the decisions made at the seven ecumenical councils. I said that I believe that protects them from many errors of the Western church. My opinion.

Fair enough, you’re certainly welcome to that. Doesn’t make them look any more attractive in my eyes. Literally thousands of other churches can make the same claim, adjusted for various councils or decision-makers in their histories.

 

[glencor63]

African Americans have no privileges in the United States. If you believe we have privileges then you are blind to the pigmentocracy that rules this nation. That’s another discussion for another time. The topic is not my love or hatred of America, but the Catholic Church and whether anything would make you seriously question it. I answered in the affirmative.

 

[Raxus]

African Americans have no privileges in the United States.

That’s a lie.

If you believe we have privileges then you are blind to the pigmentocracy that rules this nation.

That’s another lie.

That’s another discussion for another time.

I discuss facts, not lies.

The topic isn’t my love or hatred of America, but the Catholic Church

If I were you, I would avoid going off-topic by not bringing race into discussions where it doesn’t belong.

 

[Raxus]

Yeah, I’m not talking what she says about it into account very much. I admire the Orthodox church as it actually is for a number of reasons.

 

[glencor63]

Racism, Donald Trump and the widespread support for him by Catholic leaders because he’s
“Pro-Life” is the final nail in the coffin for me and the Catholic Church. It’s my answer to the original question. Please reread the posts. Sigh!