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Jeanne_S
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If the establishment requests one not enter without a mask for any reason I have to wonder if these folks are just being recalcitrant. Ya know The whole “ Karen ” thing 
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buffalo
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So we have seen some uptick and I wonder how the professor would explain it. But in the big picture he was pretty close.
Maybe, but collectivism is tyranny. I would prefer 100%, but I also have the ability to socially distance, keeping myself healthy.
I think the phrase was, “ give me liberty, or give me death.” But sure, better dead than communist/ fascist.
Meanwhile, let’s practice common sense and wear masks. Even when we are burning private property and tearing down statues of abolitionists and the writer of the emancipation proclamation
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QContinuum
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It is, but I don’t see a requirement to wear a mask to a grocery store anymore than electing to wear pants or shoes to the store. In fact, most places have rules about shoes and shirts these days if you want service. Never seen anyone yet throwing a tantrum about tyranny because Denny’s wouldn’t let a barefoot person in their dining room. I’m not saying governmental overreach isn’t a problem. It is. But I don’t see requiring masks in public places during a pandemic as the problem.
Me neither. I think the complaints about wearing a mask are poorly placed.JonNC:
It is, but I don’t see a requirement to wear a mask to a grocery store anymore than electing to wear pants or shoes to the store. In fact, most places have rules about shoes and shirts these days if you want service. Never seen anyone yet throwing a tantrum about tyranny because Denny’s wouldn’t let a barefoot person in their dining room. I’m not saying governmental overreach isn’t a problem. It is. But I don’t see requiring masks in public places during a pandemic as the problem.
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WingedHussar
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Ah yes, the Emancipation Proclamation, when Lincoln did not free the slaves in the swing states.
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Montrose
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(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
I guess he wasn’t as perfect as some posters here.
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buffalo
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BOMBSHELL STUDY: Could Half the Uninfected Population Already Be Partially Immune? (VIDEO) | Restoring Liberty
Could nearly half the population not already infected with SARS-CoV-2 be immune to it from having already contracted other forms of coronavirus in recent years?
joemiller.us
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Pattylt
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Nowhere is there a link to the actual research. The one link provided was the same article from a different magazine. There is even a disclaimer that much of this seems to be theoretical. It’s interesting what it’s positing but without the origin to the study, I question the accuracy. Do you by any chance have that link to the original study? Thanks.
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buffalo
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Targets of T Cell Responses to SARS-CoV-2Coronavirus in Humans with COVID-19Disease and Unexposed Individuals
While it was important to identify antigen-specific T cell re-sponses in COVID-19 cases, it is also of great interest to under-stand whether cross-reactive immunity exists between corona-viruses to any degree. A key step in developing thatunderstanding is to examine antigen-specific CD4+and CD8+T cells in COVID-19 cases and in unexposed healthy controls,utilizing the exact same antigens and series of experimentaltechniques. CD4+T cell responses were detected in 40%–60%of unexposed individuals. This may be reflective of some degreeof cross-reactive, preexisting immunity to SARS-CoV-2 in some,but not all, individuals. Whether this immunity is relevant in influ-encing clinical outcomes is unknown—and cannot be knownwithout T cell measurements before and after SARS-CoV-2infection of individuals—but it is tempting to speculate that thecross-reactive CD4+T cells may be of value in protective immu-nity, based on SARS mouse models (Zhao et al., 2016). Clearidentification of the cross-reactive peptides, and their sequencehomology relation to other coronaviruses, requires deconvolu-tion of the positive peptide pools, which is not feasible with thecell numbers presently available, and time frame of the pre-sent study.Regarding the value of cross-reactive T cells, influenza (flu)immunology in relationship to pandemics may be instructive. Inthe context of the 2009 H1N1 influenza pandemic, preexistingT cell immunity existed in the adult population, which focusedon the more conserved internal influenza viral proteins (Green-baum et al., 2009). The presence of cross-reactive T cells wasfound to correlate with less severe disease (Sridhar et al.,2013; Wilkinson et al., 2012). The frequent availability of cross-reactive memory T cell responses might have been one factorcontributing to the lesser severity of the H1N1 flu pandemic(Hancock et al., 2009). Cross-reactive immunity to influenzastrains has been modeled to be a critical influencer of suscepti-bility to newly emerging, potentially pandemic, influenza strains(Gostic et al., 2016). Given the severity of the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, it has been modeled that any degree of cross-pro-tective coronavirus immunity in the population could have a verysubstantial impact on the overall course of the pandemic, andthe dynamics
https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092...m/retrieve/pii/S0092867420306103?showall=true
While it was important to identify antigen-specific T cell re-sponses in COVID-19 cases, it is also of great interest to under-stand whether cross-reactive immunity exists between corona-viruses to any degree. A key step in developing thatunderstanding is to examine antigen-specific CD4+and CD8+T cells in COVID-19 cases and in unexposed healthy controls,utilizing the exact same antigens and series of experimentaltechniques. CD4+T cell responses were detected in 40%–60%of unexposed individuals. This may be reflective of some degreeof cross-reactive, preexisting immunity to SARS-CoV-2 in some,but not all, individuals. Whether this immunity is relevant in influ-encing clinical outcomes is unknown—and cannot be knownwithout T cell measurements before and after SARS-CoV-2infection of individuals—but it is tempting to speculate that thecross-reactive CD4+T cells may be of value in protective immu-nity, based on SARS mouse models (Zhao et al., 2016). Clearidentification of the cross-reactive peptides, and their sequencehomology relation to other coronaviruses, requires deconvolu-tion of the positive peptide pools, which is not feasible with thecell numbers presently available, and time frame of the pre-sent study.Regarding the value of cross-reactive T cells, influenza (flu)immunology in relationship to pandemics may be instructive. Inthe context of the 2009 H1N1 influenza pandemic, preexistingT cell immunity existed in the adult population, which focusedon the more conserved internal influenza viral proteins (Green-baum et al., 2009). The presence of cross-reactive T cells wasfound to correlate with less severe disease (Sridhar et al.,2013; Wilkinson et al., 2012). The frequent availability of cross-reactive memory T cell responses might have been one factorcontributing to the lesser severity of the H1N1 flu pandemic(Hancock et al., 2009). Cross-reactive immunity to influenzastrains has been modeled to be a critical influencer of suscepti-bility to newly emerging, potentially pandemic, influenza strains(Gostic et al., 2016). Given the severity of the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, it has been modeled that any degree of cross-pro-tective coronavirus immunity in the population could have a verysubstantial impact on the overall course of the pandemic, andthe dynamics
https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092...m/retrieve/pii/S0092867420306103?showall=true
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Pattylt
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Thank you. It’s interesting but also inconclusive at this point in time. That doesn’t mean it isn’t hopeful!
It also makes biological sense that previous exposures to the Corona family of viruses would cross protect to create milder symptoms in Covid 19. The downside is that Tcell formation and numbers of specific Tcells to the Corona family is unknown in people unless they specifically have a Tcell analysis. Being an expensive test and still uncertain of the levels of protection, it isn’t going to be entering the common medical community any time soon.
It’s best hope is to curtail the pandemic down to lower numbers than previously though. There is no clue as to how dramatic those numbers may be.
Thanks for posting the original study
I really appreciate it!
It also makes biological sense that previous exposures to the Corona family of viruses would cross protect to create milder symptoms in Covid 19. The downside is that Tcell formation and numbers of specific Tcells to the Corona family is unknown in people unless they specifically have a Tcell analysis. Being an expensive test and still uncertain of the levels of protection, it isn’t going to be entering the common medical community any time soon.
It’s best hope is to curtail the pandemic down to lower numbers than previously though. There is no clue as to how dramatic those numbers may be.
Thanks for posting the original study
I really appreciate it!
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Zzyzx_Road
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You’re misreading what I said. Everyone was tested on Diamond Princess. 3000 persons tested negative. I wasn’t calling these 3000 “false negatives”; that’s you putting words in my mouth. The second time you’ve done so in this thread. Please stop doing that.
That 3000 represented about 80% of everyone on board. Confining them to their rooms apparently did not prevent them from getting exposed via the air conditioning system passing the virus between the rooms. Which makes sense if one understands how normal air conditioning systems work. Which is to say they usually don’t have filters in their return ducts that are capable of stopping the virus from going back through the ducts and back to the rooms.
What I am saying is that most, if not all, of those 3000 were exposed to sufficient viral levels for infection to happen. But for these people, it didn’t. Only 20% on board were infected. Therefore there is some immunity present in most of those 3000. They didn’t get infected and develop immunity that way, they never got infected in the first place. We don’t know what exactly that immunity consists of, but we know that it exists.
This was the same thing that happened with the USS Roosevelt. In the case of that ship: it was 25% who were infected while the other 75% never got infected.
You keep saying that much immunity is impossible. I think it’s time you put up something that supports your view. Or explained the lack of a spike in New York while most other locations that don’t have the penetration that NY did are now experiencing spikes.
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petra22
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I was thinking of my poor mother and other aged folks in the nursing homes… They cannot keep clean and no matter how hard the nursing staff tries it’s practically impossible to keep the patients hands clean… I can’t imagine a virus transmitted that way… fecal… rushing through the nursing homes… I pray for them all, doctors, nurses, patients and family of patients…
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Joegrane
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Thank you for the post. I hope your estimates about herd immunity are correct. I fear that due to the virulence of Sars Cov 2 an unusually large herd immunity will be needed.
For those not familiar with treatments including steroids, blood thinners, etc check out the MATH+ protocol and some encouraging reported results. There was also an encouraging study in the UK about steroid use.
The corruption in medical studies and governmental agencies has been SO sad. It is very sad that so little of that is being discussed in our forum. How many other groups in our society care about ethics.
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Peaceable
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This doesn’t account for the super spreader phenomenon. They may have been very lucky not to have super spreaders on board, or very few super spreaders. It’s possible under the right circumstances (more accurately, wrong circumstances), the rates of infection could’ve been much higher. It is also possible that despite the fact that the virus can pass the air-conditioning system, it may not have done so in sufficient volumes to infect more people.
Note, I’m not an expert in this area. However, I do think speculating that herd immunity is easy to achieve, is not particularly responsible. I don’t think we truly know yet whether or not this is the case. May depend on multiple factors, including mutation rates and the nature of mutation, as well as presence of superspreaders.
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Peaceable
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Not sure this is particularly charitable. I think there are a lot of good people who are working on this problem right now. I think what’s hard, is that this is a very new kind of virus and it’s very hard to predict/ model it’s behavior, so people are racing to try to find models that work.
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buffalo
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