Appropriate Punishment: Please read before voting.

[Blanka]

jeffreedy789:

wow. everyone who’s posted so far (that i read - sorry if i missed you) seems convinced that a person who did this sort of thing is a ‘horrible monster’ utterly disconnected from our own propensity for sin.

what you’ve described is a horrible act.

but are we saying that we are not capable of it? that we’re ‘good people’ and this is a ‘bad person’?

do we not consider that ‘but for the grace of God, there go i’?

we are all sinful people. all of us, if put in the wrong situation, with the wrong upbringing, and the wrong ‘understanding’ of the world, could be capable of atrocities worse than this. no?

this, my friends, is why our vote should be for life imprisonment, with heavy emphasis on rehabilitation. because if it were me, that’s what i’d want. this is a person, who can spend his eternity in heaven or hell, based on whether we kill him now, or give him time to learn about what he did, and what it means, and why it’s wrong, and what to do about it.

our outrage at his act makes us want ‘five minutes alone’. but this outrage is not toward the person - it’s toward the action. the person needs our love - just as we need God’s.

jeffreedy,
Beautifully said. I have read your joking and playful posts in other threads and also noticed that you have posted that you will be entering the Jesuits soon. My previous opinion of you was that you were a playful young guy with good aspirations. After reading this post, my respect for you just went to the top of the human scale. I think you will make a very great and holy priest! I wish you the very best and my prayers will be with you. :bowdown2:

 

[jeffreedy789]

blanka - thank you. your words humble me.

karen anne - you said:

I am plain tired of these monsters (YES - MONSTERS) getting a slap on the wrist and three meals a day, health care and a bed to sleep in as a “consequence” of their crimes.

since you’ve addressed my contention that they are NOT monsters by insisting that they are, i feel obliged to respond.

it’s easy and safe for us to categorize people as ‘monsters’ and so safely compartmentalize them away from ‘us good people’. this, i say, is a fundamental misunderstanding of sin and grace.

we are fallen, sinful people who deserve hell. we do all realize that?

this man has fallen into a horrible, despicable form of sin. a very public and easily condemned form of sin.

but i deserve hell as much as he does. i ask for grace and forgiveness from God, just as i ask it for this man.

 

[pnewton]

trailblazer:

I am deeply saddened at the number of “Catholics” who still believe in the death penalty, even though the Church says it is wrong when other options are available. Do all of you believe in abortion and euthanasia as well?
… Protestant denominations whose views more closely match your own.

That is because what you claim is not what the church teaches. The death penalty has never been on the same level as abortion and euthanasia. There is room in the Catechism for a Catholic to still believe that no other option may exist in rare cases that will effectively protect society.

Please do not dirve a wedge when one does not exist. Those who disagree with you on this may be as solid and orthodox Catholics as you are. We must have charity on non-essentials.

 

[slinky1882]

If the ability exists to lock the felon up for life w/o parole, that’s my vote. If the prison system cannot ensure this and/or will release the prisoner. I’d have to pray long and hard to see if the death penalty were permissible. Just how I would look at it. Thanks and God Bless.

 

[Nan_S]

slinky1882:

If the ability exists to lock the felon up for life w/o parole, that’s my vote. If the prison system cannot ensure this and/or will release the prisoner. I’d have to pray long and hard to see if the death penalty were permissible. Just how I would look at it. Thanks and God Bless.

It is unfortunate that we live in a liberal, secular society with the ACLU and lots of bleeding-heart give-a-guy-a-chance liberals. America has the physical resources to lock the bastard up forever, but does not have the collective will to use those resources. We have too many liberal judges who commute sentences. The only way around that is to impose the death penalty on scum like him.

Personally, I’d ask for life in solitary without parole, if such a sentence could be imposed.

Catechism of the Catholic Church www.vatican.va
**2267 ***Assuming that the guilty party’s identity and responsibility have been fully determined, the traditional teaching of the Church does not exclude recourse to the death penalty, if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor. *
*If, however, nonlethal means are sufficient to defend and protect people’s safety from the aggressor, authority will limit itself to such means, as these are more in keeping with the concrete conditions of the common good and are more in conformity to the dignity of the human person. *
Today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime, by rendering one who has committed an offense incapable of doing harm - without definitely taking away from him the possibility of redeeming himself - the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity are very rare, if not practically nonexistent.

 

[Exporter]

I voted for solitary confinement with no chaance of a paarole.

Buy if it was my daughter or neighbor’s daughter and I got the piece of trash alone, I would be haard pressed not to carve him up for a slow death ( Maybe 5 minutes). Then throw him in the deep water.

But I know what the Church says, it’s a hard thing to do.

 

[FreeThinker]

If there’s a video taped confession and positive DNA evidence I say “FLIP THE SWITCH!”

He’ll have plenty of time for confession to save his soul during the rediculously long appeals process.

 

[JoeMike]

777:

But it won’t bring the victim back.

It isn’t about resurrecting the dead.

It’s about preventing future victims. My children and yours, for example.

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Mike_Olson:

Since the question specifically stated confessed it took the burden of all the hard thinking away from my decision. I answered the question as posed to us. I took nothing such as what you bring up into consideration.

Fair enough. That makes perfect sense to me. In suppose I was actually asking if you would extend your comments rather than clarify.

Alan

 

[AlanFromWichita]

Karen Anne:

I chose the 5 minutes. Then I would go ahead and give him the death penalty and make sure it is enforced.

Dear Karen Anne,

In case it matters, I have no problem with your choice so far. What I am concerned about is…

Yes we are all sinners. NO - I do NOT think we are all capable of committing such a terrible crime (crimes). WHATEVER the “reason” is that the crime was committed (ie- drugs, mental illness, miserable childhood etc) that person CHOSE to commit the crime.

You are greatly mistaken about a mentally ill person choosing to commit whatever crimes. Some do, some don’t. Some honestly don’t know what they do, so know but they are driven by such extreme fear or filled with such confusion or other factors they do it anyway. :bigyikes:

I have a great deal of experience with issues of mental illness, aa I was once locked up against my will, without any interview with any doctor, and probably illegally. (After they threatened my wife trying to get her to commit me I finally signed myself in on the third day.) You would have no idea the things that happened that day, and why. Out of context, there were several things that you might have thought were very scary or even sinful. To my actual friends, who knew me better, including a retired priest who told me I committed no sin and that I did not, in fact, “excommunicate” myself that day, the things I was doing were logical and charitable for someone in my circumstances and state of mind. Because of the judgment hounds around here, I dare not even say what one unwitnessed act was, that I confessed to the priest only to hear it was not a sin on my part. The alleged hounds would surely all second guess my confessor.

Yes, it is very sad all around- no doubt about that. Yes - there may be circumstances that “caused” such behavior. But the bottom line is NO - WE MUST NOT ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN AGAIN - period.

OK, I can agree with that.

I am plain tired of these monsters (YES - MONSTERS) getting a slap on the wrist and three meals a day, health care and a bed to sleep in as a “consequence” of their crimes.

You may think jails are too cushy, or maybe just too expensive, and that’s fine. I don’t know because I’ve never been to a jail. I only know the loss of freedom of being locked up is terrible, even when it’s supposedly for my own good – especially when I have a puzzled wife and six children expecting me home for dinner. :whacky:

Please take back the word “monster,” though, or I might just start quoting some Words of God in your general direction!

My family cannot afford health insurance (as many many others also cannot) - how is it that people in prison get health care?? Go figure (I know - that was a bit off topic…)

Off topic, yes, but I hear you on that. Ever since I got locked up and subsequently lost my job and ended my rising 20 year engineering career (based 100% on false information a clerk “who thought I was a bit tense and needed help and had no idea it would be taken that seriously” fed to the company psychologist) my family of eight has also been without health insurance.

Alkan

 

[wcknight]

I voted for life in prison without possibility for parole, but if it were my kid, I would say bring back cruel and unusual punishment.

wc

 

[Isidore_AK]

wcknight:

I voted for life in prison without possibility for parole, but if it were my kid, I would say bring back cruel and unusual punishment.

wc

I always wanted to know who gets to define ‘Cruel & Unusual’ punishment…would castration count? I hear that thats how they deal with it in sweden…

 

[qmvsimp]

jeffreedy789:

wow. everyone who’s posted so far (that i read - sorry if i missed you) seems convinced that a person who did this sort of thing is a ‘horrible monster’ utterly disconnected from our own propensity for sin.

what you’ve described is a horrible act.

but are we saying that we are not capable of it? that we’re ‘good people’ and this is a ‘bad person’?

do we not consider that ‘but for the grace of God, there go i’?

we are all sinful people. all of us, if put in the wrong situation, with the wrong upbringing, and the wrong ‘understanding’ of the world, could be capable of atrocities worse than this. no?

this, my friends, is why our vote should be for life imprisonment, with heavy emphasis on rehabilitation. because if it were me, that’s what i’d want. this is a person, who can spend his eternity in heaven or hell, based on whether we kill him now, or give him time to learn about what he did, and what it means, and why it’s wrong, and what to do about it.

our outrage at his act makes us want ‘five minutes alone’. but this outrage is not toward the person - it’s toward the action. the person needs our love - just as we need God’s.

Remember this distinction. As an individual Christian, we forgive the criminal and love him as we love everyone else. As a society, he must answer for his crime. God forgives, but we still must do penance for our sins; either here on earth or Purgatory. Remember that Jesus said we won’t be released until we’ve paid back every penny.

Personally I wanted five minutes alone, but that is an emotional response. As a society, I think death is the appropriate answer. Let God deal with him. Capital Punishment as administered in our society allows sufficient time for repenting to God before death.

 

[wcknight]

Isidore_AK:

I always wanted to know who gets to define ‘Cruel & Unusual’ punishment…would castration count? I hear that thats how they deal with it in sweden…

I would guess the supreme court makes that determination. And I’m sure castration would fall into that category, even though the punishemnt fits the crime in this case.

Part of the problem with our judicial system is that punishments often do not fit the crime, nor are they appropriate to deter future crimes.

When a US kid got caned in SE Asia (I think it was Singapore) a few years back, it raised a big stir back here in the states (I think it was for vandalizing someone’s car.) Granted caning was pretty severe for what many considered a minor crime, I think it was a big deterant for any future such crimes.

Kids were put on notice that if you misbehave in SE Asia, you could be punished pretty severely. Kids over here, can land in jail many times, and it does not even bother them in the least. Sometimes, I think we are enabling our youths to become even worse criminals by letting them off easy.

Physical punishment is barbaric and cruel, but slaps on the wrist may even be more damaging in the long run. Somewhere in the middle is the right mix.

wc

 

[AlanFromWichita]

wcknight:

… even though the punishemnt fits the crime in this case.

Good point. If your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out…

Alan

 

[jeffreedy789]

As a society, I think death is the appropriate answer. Let God deal with him. Capital Punishment as administered in our society allows sufficient time for repenting to God before death.

so you hold this position even though the RCC teaches that capital punishment should be avoided unless it’s not possible?

and i think it’s dangerous to ‘remember’ what you’ve stated. i think that we should not divorce our personal morality from our legislative morality. when we do so, we create a true monster.

 

[Blanka]

Have we forgotten the example of 11 year old St. Maria Goretti who forgave her attacker as she lay dying? And how her attacker Alessandro later had a conversion of heart?

Link to the story about Alessandro: mariagoretti.org/alessandrobio.htm

 

[weddy]

given the situation listed the offender is:

1:already a proven repeat, therefore is not prone to rehab.
2:assaulted & murdered a child.
3bviously does not care for life in general

if put in prison, will probably not live long w/ other inmates & would be a waste to try to keep him alive.

sorry if you don’t agree, but that’s my stance!
I would rather have 5 min. alone, but i’m not GOD, so leave it to the courts.

 

[TheGarg]

I personally am Pro-DeathPenalty, since it is not absolutely banned by the Church, and I would like to see it extended to Violent Sexual Crimes as well. ESPECIALLY for ANY Sexual Crime against someone under 14…and for extreme cases fof adult rape…[ie…not he said/she said date rape, but like “he bit her nose off and other crazy stuff while he raped her” type stuff…PERIOD.

After a few executions, more people would be apt to control themselves…why do i think this…

I justified smoking for 18 years, till I was told by doctors that I would not be able to have the lifesaving GastricBypass surgery I needed, if I continued smoking…I dropped them and never had a craving after the 3rd day…

a year later and still cigarette free [ i am known to have a fine cigar now and again]

The Threat of DEATH rearranged my whole system for Justification for smoking…I was put in control of wether I lived or died…and death was now a FACT of LIFE. Nothing personal, just an IF statement…if [dan == smoking]
surgery = no;
life = over;

Once faced with the same choice, sexual predators will learn to control themselves…the ones that can’t are the ones that need to be put to sleep…permanantly.

Don’t want to die, don’t rape…period.

This is not unfair in the slightest, IMHO

 

[JHutch]

Blanka:

Have we forgotten the example of 11 year old St. Maria Goretti who forgave her attacker as she lay dying? And how her attacker Alessandro later had a conversion of heart?

Link to the story about Alessandro: mariagoretti.org/alessandrobio.htm

I hope we have not forgotten St. Maria Goretti’s story. The reason we have St. Maria G’s story is because she lived long enough after her attack to have her selfless act of forgiving her attacker witnessed by others.

In the case we are discussing here, young Jessica Lunsford was stolen form her parents home, raped and then murdered in the heinous solitude of being buried alive. If she has forgivin her murderer, then only God knows it.

Couey is a repeat offender who never should have been let out of jail after his first offense. He is proof that the system does not/cannot rehabilitate these sexual predators. Had he gotten life without parole for his first offense and been incarcerated, Jessica Lunsford would be alive and well today barring another tradgedy. We would not have to discuss any of these so-called “humane options.” The Death Penalty has its place and in the case of Couey it is well deserved.

May the Lord have Mercy on his soul.