Did the lying media cost Trump the election?

[otjm]

But the decision of a judge is final, unless overturned in appeal, which has not happened.

Of course it hasn’t happened. You don’t just walk into an appellate court and start arguing a case which has not been presented by briefs. In the normal course, after a notice of appeal is filed, it may take months before one is even scheduled for hearing.

A decision does not stand if it is overturned on appeal - and given that it may take months to even prepare the briefs, it may or may not “stand” - meaning that execution of the decision may or may not go forward.

A preliminary decision was rendered in the case seeking to have access to Dominion software for the purpose of determining what happened. Whether that decision was effective (meaning that the data was not erased) I have not heard.

There have been allegations that the software was neither safe from outside sources nor accurate; and those allegations were made by Amy Klobuchar and other Democrats long before the election was held.

Given that it would be in the best interests of the Democrats to show that the software is safe and accurate, one has to wonder what the haste is to erase what it contains - it should be a no-brainer to simply say “Let’s examine it”.

Anyone can question whether or not Dominion software is trustworthy. When significant players in the Democratic Party have openly questions the software (and she was by no means alone), and then when the Republicans want access to it and the Democrats’ position looks and sounds like “Move on, nothing to see here”, it does not take a strictly partisan individual to say - hey, let’s slow down, you brought it up first.

There are allegations floating around all over, and I would presume that some of them are figments of overactive imaginations. All of them? Then why were nationally known Democrats questioning the software months ago, if not longer?

The greatest way to put a stop to all of the allegations would be for the Democrats to step up and also demand transparency of all of the elections.

 

[Pattylt]

The greatest way to put a stop to all of the allegations would be for the Democrats to step up and also demand transparency of all of the elections.

I agree. Do you think the electoral vote should be delayed in any way while this is being done though? Or, should we assume accuracy until proven otherwise and continue with installing Biden?

 

[puer.dei]

I dont think of it as name calling

Sure, you don’t.

 

[phil3]

Again, no. I can not see how any of the GOP hopefuls that endorsed biden, can then throw their hat in the ring and then run against him or Harris in 2024. Why should any conservative person support them?

They wont be able to claim in any shape form or fashion they are conservatives, they will have endorsed the most leftist team every to make it to the white house.

 

[phil3]

Well at least we agree.

 

[Peeps]

I agree. Do you think the electoral vote should be delayed in any way while this is being done though? Or, should we assume accuracy until proven otherwise and continue with installing Biden?

I think for the safety and security of the country (smooth transition of power) that the President-elect and VP-elect installation should go as scheduled, but both Joseph Biden and Kamala Harris, at least, should be briefed and made fully aware of the possibility, however small, of an overturn, so that they can prepare their reaction in advance. I would not want to be broadsidedwith a court ruling that, “Hey, you lost after all! You have to vacate the White House! Move it!” (I do not think that Pres. Trump and the current First Lady would be “polite” to his rivals .)

And if he will pay attention, Pres. Trump should also be given the same briefing and told to keep it Top Secret. I don’t think he would heed that admonition, but since we on CAF know about the possibility of an overturn, then I guess it would do no harm for him to tweet it everywhere. No one would take him seriously until the court actually announced it.

What would be interesting to me is if this overturn really is proven–how would the citizens react? Yikes.

 

[1ke]

They wont be able to claim in any shape form or fashion they are conservatives

Trump is not a conservative!!!

https://medium.com/@HeathMayo/13-ways-trump-isnt-conservative-8fe355e2b88

Donald Trump isn’t a conservative, he’s a big-spending nationalist – Orange County Register

Sarah Longwell: ‘Donald Trump is not a republican or a conservative’

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/08/19/interview-stuart-stevens-republican-case-against-trump-397918

 

[Pattylt]

What would be interesting to me is if this overturn really is proven–how would the citizens react? Yikes.

Honestly? Turmoil…complete turmoil, to the point that if it was truly shown that the voting machines did actually change the election results…and I hate to say this…it would be better if we never knew it and just kept Biden in office. Otherwise, I can really see civil war breaking out…or, at the least, riots and burnings and terror in the streets. And, I think we’d see it from both sides, claiming to be reacting to the others. I’d rather have a nice boring four years of Biden than that outcome even if he was an illegal president. If the House and Senate knew the outcome was different than Biden honestly winning then we would have a stalled four years of any legislative action that was R or D and they could just keep the system in place with budgeting actions only. Especially if the machines forced a Biden win but the popular vote hadn’t changed, just the electoral. There comes a point where the concerns of American democracy may need to override a cheating machine.

When all is said and done, I don’t think they actually will find any serious problems with the algorithms in the software. They may uncover some potential problems but nothing that really changes the results. For the sake of our country, I hope not!

 

[Peeps]

When all is said and done, I don’t think they actually will find any serious problems with the algorithms in the software. They may uncover some potential problems but nothing that really changes the results. For the sake of our country, I hope not!

I tend to agree. I hate to admit it, but I think that too many people who gave Donald Trump a chance in 2016 decided that his accomplishments were not worth his tweets, and voted for his opponent. I think his “Nay” votes outnumbered his “Yea” votes.

And I tend to agree about the violence in the streets should there be an overturn. It was bad enough this summer. But there seems to be an attitude of “fatalism” now–so many people are getting sick and dying of COVID-19 that I think people are kind of resigned to getting it, even though they continue to mask and SD and all the rest. And there’s a sizeable group of people who have either lost their business/job, or who in all likelihood will lose their business/job unless the vaccine works miracles.

So there are a lot of very gloomy, discouraged people around who might find rioting a good outlet for their angry moods and bleak, hopeless lives.

Again, though, I doubt it will come to that. I think that one problem with over-tweeting and constant barrages of protests is that people become immune to it and pay no attention, so even if Pres. Trump is told in secret that for the good of the country, the investigating is OVER and he has lost–and he chooses to let loose a volume of tweets–no one will care at that point.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Sorry but that’s just nonsense.

No it isn’t.

 

[phil3]

didnt say he was, I said they can not claim to be after endorsing biden

 

[Rasoleil]

AG Barr said, he has not seen sufficient evidence of fraud to overturn a state election - which means just that. A judge did rule that the files of the Dominion machines were not to be erased; and given that the order may have been given to the wrong entity (and I am not following it at this time) the files may by now be erased - and so there would be no evidence, or the files may still be in existence, which may mean that there is evidence of fraud, or not.

Yes, Rudi Guiliani is one of the best lawyers in the land.

 

[1ke]

I said they can not claim to be after endorsing biden

So, just so I understand:

Biden’s not a conservative, so Republicans who voted for him cannot claim to be a conservative anymore

Trump’s not a conservative, but Republicans who voted for him can claim to be a conservative in the future.

Uh— nope. The doesn’t pass muster.

Choosing Biden over Trump as the best candidate in 2020 has nothing to do with who I or any other conservative choose to endorse or vote for over another candidate in the future.

 

[LilyM]

JimG:

Question: Who said, “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper”?
Was it (A) Sean Hannity, (B) Glenn Beck, © Rush Limbaugh, or (D) None of the above?

I believe the answer is (E) Nononony

Perhaps not the official answer, but that’s exactly what I said to myself after they informed us in journalism school that each outlet had an agenda that, as a reporter, you had to adhere to regardless of your feelings on the matter or you would be unemployable.

After being flatly informed that the media is used for the manufacture of public thought and belief I’ve not been able to believe anything which is seen in a newspaper… on the radio… or television… or facebook… or Fox News… or CNN…

I never worked in the media because of that one moment in class… which caused some tremendous upset amongst my family who thought I was over-reacting and wasting my education and talents… but I must say, after careful observation of 2020, I’ve never been MORE proud of my 20 year old self.

I don’t have any comments on the actual topic as it was presented in the original post.

Really? Citizen Kane is precisely about a newspaper tycoon who uses his newspapers to shape public opinion, including political opinion, with a definite agenda.

The film is 80 years old, the term ‘yellow journalism’ (for journalism lomg on opinion and short on fact) is even older.

Media bias and agenda is anything but new or a secret.

 

[Pattylt]

Again, though, I doubt it will come to that. I think that one problem with over-tweeting and constant barrages of protests is that people become immune to it and pay no attention, so even if Pres. Trump is told in secret that for the good of the country, the investigating is OVER and he has lost–and he chooses to let loose a volume of tweets–no one will care at that point

From your lips to Gods ears…as my Jewish mama would say!

My fear is that Trump has a number of followers that only believe him. So, how Trump approaches all of this is really important. Most people are accepting the inevitable, thankfully. It’s that remnant that is still hanging on his every word and whisper. If he said “sic em”, I fear that is exactly what would happen…they’d riot. It’s bad enough that the peaceful protests turned violent this summer. If the Trump diehards don’t let this go and “think” Trump wants them to protest in the same manner! No, just no. Those groups carry guns to their protests!

It’s why I think the president needs to accept the vote and publicly call his supporters to accept it as well. He can still pursue legal challenges in the background…it’s his right…but enough with egging on his loyalists to Stand By. This is going to be an interesting week…said in impression of the Chinese curse of May you live in interesting times!

 

[phil3]

Trump is closer to being a conservative than biden ever was. Trump is an american first president.

Trump appointed 3 conservative supreme court justices. That alone is a good reason to support him over Clinton or Biden.

Trump is also the first President since Carter to not invade another country.

I could go on and on and on why the gop should have given it support to Trump, but they are all the political elite. The GOP establishment is every bit as corrupt as the democrats.

 

[1ke]

Trump is closer to being a conservative than biden ever was.

I disagree.

Trump is an american first president.

Nationalism is not a conservative or Republican principle.

Trump appointed 3 conservative supreme court justices.

Republicans have appointed far more justices than Democrats in the last 60 years. The “must appoint justices” argument is a poor one vis-a-vis voting for a Republican no matter their moral and policy failings.

That alone is a good reason to support him over Clinton or Biden.

Actually, it isn’t.

Trump is also the first President since Carter to not invade another country.

Ok. He also is withdrawing troops and leaving allies high and dry. I don’t agree with his foreign policy (such as it is) or what he’s done to our military or our allies.

The GOP establishment is every bit as corrupt as the democrats.

An opinion. And a really puzzling one given how actually corrupt Trump is.

Hope you haven’t given money to his “legal defense fund” 75% of which goes to his super PAC slush fund and 25% of which goes to the RNC towards his campaign debt, and zero of which goes to any sort of election defense fund unless a single donor gives over $8K. They’ve spent only about $7M on post election legal and recount challenges out of the $207M they’ve raised. Almost all of that is in the unrestricted slush fund.

So much corruption in this White House including funneling taxpayer and RNC money to the Trump Organization, emoluments issues, putting the family on the payroll in the White House, and on and on.

Trump supporters are the largest hypocrites calling to “drain the swamp” while their candidate is snorkeling through his own corrupt swamp. He seriously must laugh himself to sleep every night at people’s gullibility.

 

[Dovekin]

The greatest way to put a stop to all of the allegations would be for the Democrats to step up and also demand transparency of all of the elections.

What Democrats? The Republican dominated electoral authorities in Georgia want to erase the information so they can use the same machines for the next election, in 30 days.

In Georgia, Stacy Abrams and her group objected to the purchase of the Dominion system.

And why does the Dominion system matter? There are two parts, a) ballot marking devices and b) tabulators that scan the ballots and count them.

The hand recount reached the same number as the tabulators, so they cannot be the problem. For instance, if someone ran some ballots through the tabulators 3x, the hand count would have corrected that.

Is the problem with the ballot marking devices (BMDs)? How does erasing the tabulators affect a problem with the BMDs?

So where is the fraud happening?

A hearing is scheduled for 10 am Dec 7.

 

[Dovekin]

both Joseph Biden and Kamala Harris, at least, should be briefed and made fully aware of the possibility, however small, of an overturn, so that they can prepare their reaction in advance. I would not want to be broadsidedwith a court ruling that, “Hey, you lost after all! You have to vacate the White House! Move it!”

That is not how our system works. The House of Representatives has the sole authority to impeach the president. Any judgment like “Hey, you lost…” would not be implemented, but would be submitted to the House Judiciary for possible impeachment.

It would go nowhere.

 

[pnewton]

Hypocracy is outwardly endorsing one opinion while secretly living another.

That too is hypocrisy, just not the only kind. Anytime that which is good for me is not good for thee, then there is hypocrisy, a violation of the Golden Rule.

Why should any conservative person support them?

For me this has an easy answer - because morality and integrity matter more than any one given election. Those that are opposing this coup do so because they have sworn to uphold the law and see the good of the nation as more important than the good of any one man. The smooth transition of power pre-Donald Trump has always been one thing all Americans agreed upon. I never would have thought I would live to see the day when a Governor was asked by the president to ignore the results of an election in a bid to overturn democracy. True conservatives can quite readily support Kemp because he stood up for the country.

I was a conservative and Republican while Donald Trump was nothing more than a rich, Yankee, wheeler and dealer, with no greater interest than acquisition of wealth. Then he comes to Georgia to tell them how they should ignore their constituents. He is now a carpetbagger sans carpetbag.

Trump is closer to being a conservative than biden ever was. Trump is an american first president.

American. Biden. That is nationalism, not conservatism.