Do Catholics really want to be aligned with MAGA?

[Theo520]

Does he realize that MAGA, being associated with Trump, associates him not only with pro-life but all the rest that Trump stands for (Trump hater or not)?

What exactly are you referring to? Your tone obviously indicates something very negative, buy you haven’t articulated any supporting comments.

What are the negatives that you think a MAGA hat espouses?

 

[Victoria33]

Look at this as well, the war on terror, the 3 last presidents and I don’t fault them greatly, may have seen drone or air strikes kill innocents in the war on terror. Some of this is to be expected? I don’t want to go around just blaming all of this on whatever the current sitting president but I think most would admit, this is rather serious.

Ditto Rwanda during the 1990s, a genocide occurred, some say we could have acted.

So, when one starts to say this and this about a president, think twice.

Matthew was a tax collector, Paul even persecuted Christians, yet both ended up preaching the word of Christ.

 

[CilladeRoma]

I am concerned about Catholics who vote for and support a man who in every ounce of his being stands for everything Catholicism stands against (avarice, pride, greed, adultery, calumny… which again puts me at risk of being flagged for posting inappropriate messages when I am simply stating facts).

Andrew Cuomo, the Democratic governor of NY is guilty of all this and more, now even codifying infanticide into state law. And I know more people, Catholic and non-Catholic who voted for him, even though he made his platform very well known.

I have said it before, I will say it again, Mr. Trump has a lot of company when it comes to immoral behavior.

 

[Victoria33]

Look at this as well, the war on terror, the 3 last presidents and I don’t fault them greatly, may have seen drone or air strikes kill innocents or maybe said better, civilians in the war on terror. Some of this is to be expected? I don’t want to go around just blaming all of this on whatever the current sitting president but I think most would admit, this is rather serious.

Ditto Rwanda during the 1990s, a genocide occurred, some say we could have acted.

So, when one starts to say this and this about a president, think twice.

Matthew was a tax collector, Paul even persecuted Christians, yet both ended up preaching the word of Christ.

 

[pnewton]

Don’t you believe the religious conservatives who back the GOP also care about immigration, healthcare, poverty, capital punishment, the environment?

As a rule, no. As aligned with Catholic teaching, not so much. Just having some idea about issues does not mean that they are a pro-life position on them, or that they are in line with the Catholic position on these issues.

I’m also not sure what you mean by “it” when you say “it is Catholic doctrine.”

I wrote a short paragraph. I could have wrote more. But what I wrote was the antecedent to “it”.

We live in a more globalized world. We have to act in accord to the whole human family to shape the earthly city in unity and peace. And globalization needs some authority to address the problem of the global common good.

Therefore, saying nationalist as opposed to a globalist does not make in more acceptably Catholic, but less.

 

[pnewton]

Andrew Cuomo, the Democratic governor of NY is guilty of all this and more, now even codifying infanticide into state law. And I know more people, Catholic and non-Catholic who voted for him, even though he made his platform very well known.

I have said it before, I will say it again, Mr. Trump has a lot of company when it comes to immoral behavior.

He has a lot of company, and Cuomo acted contrary to Christianity and moral law. I do not know how this is relevant to the topic though.

What exactly are you referring to? Your tone obviously indicates something very negative, buy you haven’t articulated any supporting comments.

What are the negatives that you think a MAGA hat espouses?

This is actually a good question. I hope the OP will weigh in. Is the concern the slogan, or the thoughts behind this slogan, or is the concern with being associate with President Trump? I cannot in good conscience support either, yet I understand the reasons other Catholics support the president despite his deficiencies.

I will also grudgingly admit I may be picking apart a catchy slogan a little too much. Just bear with me on this. Catchy slogans have a way of adversely affecting our thinking over time.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I am concerned about Catholics who vote for and support a man who in every ounce of his being stands for everything Catholicism stands against (avarice, pride, greed, adultery, calumny… which again puts me at risk of being flagged for posting inappropriate messages when I am simply stating facts)

Neither the democratic party nor the Republican party follow everything the Catholic church stands for but avarice, pride, greed, adultery and calumny can be found in both both parties.

No president is perfect. All have their flaws and their sins. Right now we have a president who is at least trying to stay on the side of the pro life, conservatives who voted for him.

I would take that any day over the pro abortion, same sex marriage, and socialist agenda of the Democratic party and the last president.

I would be much more concerned when Catholics support the Democrats.

 

[Theo520]

This is actually a good question. I hope the OP will weigh in. Is the concern the slogan, or the thoughts behind this slogan, or is the concern with being associate with President Trump? I cannot in good conscience support either, yet I understand the reasons other Catholics support the president despite his deficiencies.

I will also grudgingly admit I may be picking apart a catchy slogan a little too much. Just bear with me on this. Catchy slogans have a way of adversely affecting our thinking over time.

I don’t have any MAGA gear, but this is how I interpret the meaning. It espouses SUBSIDIARITY, that our primary focus should be to meet the needs of our extended family of citizens.

• better trade deals accomplish that. The revised deals do lean our direction but are still fair to our trading partners. Unequal trade is a form of subsidy that should only be allowed as an exception.
• high numbers of illegal economic migrants do come with a significant social and economic cost. In contrast, a tight labor market helps our most needy. The focus on criminal illegals is sensational but I think deflects from the real issue and cost.
• Expecting NATO allies to carry their fair share. They are big boys with advanced economies, we shouldn’t have to spend our scarce resources if they aren’t going to be a good partner.

I don’t think MAGA excludes helping other countries, it just implies aid should be judicious and focused on humanitarian needs, supporting legit refugees, or protecting our national interests. This may be selfish but it’s is the Fed Govt responsibility to look out for our strategic interests. Economic migrants are not legitimate refugees.

If we want to change governance in Central America for the better, we should focus on their governance. Importing their workers as ‘scab labor’ only helps our business owners but does nothing to help the many millions still living in those countries. Employing their able-bodied people should be subordinate to getting our less able-bodied citizens productively engaged.

Consider the lifetime impact on minority teens who are now productively employed vs a decade earlier when teens couldn’t find jobs. Which teens learn basic job skills and acquired a work ethic, which group is/was more likely to engage in illegal activities that might set them on a road to prison as an adult? Obama didn’t cause the recession but I do think teens that came of age during it and the slow recovery are forever stunted in reaching their potential as productive citizens. Same issues apply for people in recovery, people with records, the homeless. All are the last people employers want to hire.

I want employers to be hunting for labor, so these less ideal citizen candidates are hired, trained, and supported.

 

[Gary1961]

Theo… In response to what am I referring to… I have to think my comments and position have been pretty clear. I think there have been some very good responses such as MagdalenaRita’s. I’m afraid the majority of responses have been the kind of political rants and diatribes that I never intended to stir up and said I wouldn’t respond too.

What are the negatives a MAGA hat espouses? I would answer but I think it’s pretty safe to say my answer would be labeled leftist, Trump hating, and liberal media biased. Once again, it isn’t my intention to be a leftest Trump hater. I will however, admit the way I wrote the original post, it does appear that way and I apologize.

With that said, I would say this post has served it’s purpose in answering my original question. As for on-going debates and assumptions as to my intent, I’d say this horse has been pretty well beaten to death.

 

[Theo520]

What are the negatives a MAGA hat espouses? I would answer but I think it’s pretty safe to say my answer would be labeled leftist, Trump hating, and liberal media biased. Once again, it isn’t my intention to be a leftest Trump hater. I will however, admit the way I wrote the original post, it does appear that way and I apologize.

With that said, I would say this post has served it’s purpose in answering my original question. As for on-going debates and assumptions as to my intent, I’d say this horse has been pretty well beaten to death.

What I hope you recognize is that many people support the slogan without a gram of racism or white nationalism in their heart. My beliefs are well considered and lie within Church teachings.

It’s irrelevant that a David Duke or some obscure white nationalist has some overlapping interests, even if his motivation is driven by personal bigotry. My beliefs and support are not based on bigotry or hate, they are based on my subsidiary responsibility to my neighbor.

 

[Gary1961]

Yes sir, I do recognize this and your beliefs are very well articulated above. I would agree with most if not all of what you said.

I fear too many people are lead blindly down path’s to the left or right without thinking about what they are hearing, saying or believing. Wearing a symbol, whether it’s a MAGA hat or a Dodgers hat says something about the person and carries implications (as much as we would like to believe it is simply a slogan or souvenir). My question of ‘do the kids really understand those implications’ given our cultural/political realities remains. Given the division in the Catholic church today, I would ask the same question, where do you draw the line?

As I stated above, for my purpose for writing the OP, my questions are answered. Thank you one and all and my apologies to anyone I’ve offended.

 

[CilladeRoma]

He has a lot of company, and Cuomo acted contrary to Christianity and moral law. I do not know how this is relevant to the topic though.

I was replying to a direct quote from another poster.

 

[pnewton]

Then let me re-phase, as the post you responded to was also about the topic, not Cuomo. I would hope that this “whatabout-ism” would be seen for the uselessness it brings to any topic. Just as sin cannot be justified by sin of others, supporting anything immoral cannot be justified by other people who support things that are immoral.

 

[CilladeRoma]

The poster was, in my opinion, attempting to paint Trump as a moral pariah.

I am just pointing out that immorality knows no party.

 

[Annie]

Therefore, saying nationalist as opposed to a globalist does not make in more acceptably Catholic, but less.

I believe in subsidiarity, a very Catholic.position. I can see the utility of international organizations, but think that way way way too much power could be concentrated in a single global authority, so any global authority needs the balance of local authorities.

 

[pnewton]

I had an interesting thought, though it is only meaningful to Christians. Thinking of how God views people, hearing the cry of the poor and the mistreated, it would seem that in the grand scheme the ones dearest to God are those considered “sh—h-ole countries,” and the least of countries to God is the one where the leader turns his nose up at this countries, like the rich man to Lazarus at the gate.

 

[MapleLeaf1]

The fact that you guys have only two serious options per election complicates things. Personally, I think it’s very reasonable for a Catholic to vote for Trump. Heck, at this point, I would, even though I was leaning towards Hillary in 2016.

In my perspective, it comes down to whether you want a dumb, annoying, childish president or one that might persecute the Church. Trump is a lot of things, but on the whole I think he’s relatively harmless. The judicial appointments really help his case, too.

So, supporting Trump? Fine. But a super-MAGA-Trump fanboy who thinks Trump is right about everything because Trump says so? Come on.

 

[Victoria33]

The original question is absurd and I’d say is set to bring out negative sentiments.

Do Catholics wish to be aligned with Obama? With JFK? Aligning with any man, here in the USA at least, is rather absurd. We align with, if anything the Vatican and some do say, not to let your religion necessarily guide your politics. That is another discussion but still, worth considering.

 

[Victoria33]

I had an interesting thought, though it is only meaningful to Christians. Thinking of how God views people, hearing the cry of the poor and the mistreated, it would seem that in the grand scheme the ones dearest to God are those considered “sh—h-ole countries,” and the least of countries to God is the one where the leader turns his nose up at this countries, like the rich man to Lazarus at the gate.

Senators at the meeting did not hear that remark.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/01/14/sen_cotton_did_not_hear_vulgar_comments_from_president_trump.html

There are other articles on this but they include that word in article title so I did not cite one of those articles.

 

[gracepoole]

In my perspective, it comes down to whether you want a dumb, annoying, childish president or one that might persecute the Church. Trump is a lot of things, but on the whole I think he’s relatively harmless. The judicial appointments really help his case, too.

I think this might be an understandable position from someone who doesn’t feel persecuted by the current administration. If I were my Syrian refugee student? I’d feel very differently. I might also feel very differently if I were someone being attacked by white nationalists since my president considers some of them to be “very fine people.”