HIV, AIDS cases rise among U.S. gay, bisexual men

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Zoot:
That’s an interesting idea. Let’s expand it a bit.

If a person contracts a disease or condition because of their behavior, should they be denied treatment? Is this a principle?

How about fat people who get adult diabetes because of their weight? Or the fat people who have heart problems? The folks who have heart problems because they don’t exercise? The people whose diet leads to cholesterol problems? Smokers?

And all the people injured in sports activities? Skiing? Bicycling? Roller blading? All these sports injuries are 100% preventable. If that girl in Hawaii whose arm was bitten off by a shark wasn’t out there surfing, she wouldn’t have been injured.
Decent logic. Well said. AND…

If the Left in this country campaigned against at-risk behavior like anal sex with as much as energy as they do…smokers, for example??? How about junk food??? SUVs ??? Gunowners???

When pigs fly. :rolleyes:
 
Ken’s back with his “Twenty Questions” plan. Don’t succumb.

Lisa N
PS He now goes by"Zoot"
 
well, like, duh

having been forced to do extensive academic research, including hours and hours of oral history interviews on the lives of homosexuals in this country, I am not so much affected by either homophobia or naivete about the so-called gay lifestyle. According to the testimony of hundreds of men in the study I participated in, sponsored by several gay lib organizations, and my institution, the hallmarks of the “gay lifestyle” are anonymous sex, promiscuity, physical and psychological abuse, and risk taking. They are an integral part of the thrill attached to this type of sex. the overwhelming percentage of adult male homosexuals had their first encounter with an adult male or older teen in an abusive or seductive context. Safe sex is simply not an attractive alternative.

Having sadly worked in a field where many of these men became valued colleagues and sometimes close friends, I am still dealing with the reality that most of them will be dead in a few years. Indeed, most of the men in the original study (in their 30s to 60s in 1987-1992, the years of the study) are now dead or dying.
 
Lisa N:
I just saw the video “It’s Not Gay” produced by the American Family Assn. It featured interviews with former homosexuals who have rejected this life and orientation. Most had upper level degrees and there were a number of cites to psychology and social services publications. So they spoke with both personal and professional expertise.
Also, I DO Exist was advertised in SD News Notes, a Catholic newspaper,a few months back. drthrockmorton.com/idoexist.asp
 
Lisa N:
Ken’s back with his “Twenty Questions” plan. Don’t succumb.

Lisa N
PS He now goes by"Zoot"
And if we question the expenditure of funds on a cure for something that is 100% preventable, then we might also ask why are we throwing money away on public health measures to control something that is 100% preventable. While we are at it, we could also eliminate public health measures aimed at all venereal diseases.

Is this Catholic teaching?
 
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Zoot:
And if we question the expenditure of funds on a cure for something that is 100% preventable, then we might also ask why are we throwing money away on public health measures to control something that is 100% preventable. While we are at it, we could also eliminate public health measures aimed at all venereal diseases.

Is this Catholic teaching?
The short answer is no.
 
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Zoot:
While we are at it, we could also eliminate public health measures aimed at all venereal diseases.
Public health measures that may have had SOME hope of controlling the AIDS epidemic were eviscerated by homosexual activists years ago. I don’t know if there ARE any public health measures aimed at STDs anymore. I do know in the 70s that if someone were diagnosed with an STD (mostly gonorrhea in those days) public health was notified. They followed up both with the original patient and by requesting information on his/her partners. In turn those partners were contacted and requested they come in for testing and treatment. As a result syph was basically eradicated and gonorrhea was pretty rare as well. Heck the big concern in those days was herpes. Seems pretty mild in comparison to a fatal disease like AIDS but there was extensive followup in an effort to slow down the transmission of the herpes virus. That’s the function of public health.

However the AIDS epidemic created an attitude of total non-cooperation with public health. In all fairness, there was a lot of stigma at that time and thus AIDS patients were very secretive about both their own situation and anyone else with whom they had been in contact. That along with the casual and anonymous sexual activities allowed AIDS to explode in that population.

So Zoot, too little too late.

Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
Ken’s back with his “Twenty Questions” plan. Don’t succumb.
Ah yes. The watered down version of the Socratic Method. All the questions. Virtually none of the insight.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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mlchance:
Ah yes. The watered down version of the Socratic Method. All the questions. Virtually none of the insight.

– Mark L. Chance.
The questions may lack insight, but I note the answers are also lacking…
 
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Brad:
This is nowhere near as complicated as you make it seem. Be chaste. Prior to marriage, have both partners tested. After marriage, don’t screw around. Disease stops.

You can call it difficult in todays sex-saturated culture from top-down, but don’t call it complicated and insult our intelligence.
I am in full agreement with pushing the morals/abstinence approach which is very applicable and teachable in the US, with a literate, well-educated populace surrounded by a culture based on Judeo-Christian ethics.

Conversely, try this sure-fire approach with any of the thousands of 12-14-16 year old African females (uneducated, w/no contact with education in health care) betrothed to men twice their age who either trade/travel over long distances or work in industry (mine, factory, refinery, port) hundreds of miles from home; who encounter and enjoy the company of many other women regularly, AND has never learned any moral prohibition against sex outside of marriage. Then perhaps suggest to her that she buck every social custom she does know and refuse her husband relations unless he is tested for AIDS and then insist that he be faithful to her. What happens when he ignores this great logic and infects her and exposes his future children to infection. Not so intelligence bustingly-simple after all. Morals are great and effective if taught, reinforced by the community/culture AND practiced by all parties.
 
I like STDs for the most part you don’t get em unless you earned em.
 
Island Oak:
I am in full agreement with pushing the morals/abstinence approach which is very applicable and teachable in the US, with a literate, well-educated populace surrounded by a culture based on Judeo-Christian ethics.

Conversely, try this sure-fire approach with any of the thousands of 12-14-16 year old African females (uneducated, w/no contact with education in health care) betrothed to men twice their age who either trade/travel over long distances or work in industry (mine, factory, refinery, port) hundreds of miles from home; who encounter and enjoy the company of many other women regularly, AND has never learned any moral prohibition against sex outside of marriage. Then perhaps suggest to her that she buck every social custom she does know and refuse her husband relations unless he is tested for AIDS and then insist that he be faithful to her. What happens when he ignores this great logic and infects her and exposes his future children to infection. Not so intelligence bustingly-simple after all. Morals are great and effective if taught, reinforced by the community/culture AND practiced by all parties.
So, in your opinion those dumb Africans are not smart enough, or brave enough, to learn the moral law? They are smart enough to use a condom? Your answer to the AIDS crisis is to introduce more immorality into an already immoral culture? I guess that whole business about preaching the truth to all nations was not a command, only a suggestion?
 
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Brad:
Do you think handing out condoms is a solution? The more condoms they give out in Africa, the more AIDS cases we see.
You’ve never seen me advocating putting condoms in ANYONE’s hands as a solution to this plague. To my way of thinking it not only is a false promise of prevention, but sidesteps the moral issues involved. The solution is going to be a matter of education, moral and health which takes time. It’s also a lesson that has to be re-taught to every new sexually active generation. This is an behaviorally acquired disease as well as a behaviorally avoidable disease. That fact can’t stop us from feeling compassion for the thousands, maybe millions especially in the third world who, through no culpability of their own, find themselves suffering and dying.
 
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Zoot:
The questions may lack insight, but I note the answers are also lacking…
That you have posed questions do not compel any of us to answer them, particularly having dealt with you in the past. You never address the answers but simply blow them off with dismissive comments and then move on to the next question. So if someone chooses to respond, that’s fine but no one is compelled to do so.

Lisa N
 
Island Oak:
I am in full agreement with pushing the morals/abstinence approach which is very applicable and teachable in the US, with a literate, well-educated populace surrounded by a culture based on Judeo-Christian ethics.

Conversely, try this sure-fire approach with any of the thousands of 12-14-16 year old African females (uneducated, w/no contact with education in health care) betrothed to men twice their age who either trade/travel over long distances or work in industry (mine, factory, refinery, port) hundreds of miles from home; who encounter and enjoy the company of many other women regularly, AND has never learned any moral prohibition against sex outside of marriage. Then perhaps suggest to her that she buck every social custom she does know and refuse her husband relations unless he is tested for AIDS and then insist that he be faithful to her. What happens when he ignores this great logic and infects her and exposes his future children to infection. Not so intelligence bustingly-simple after all. Morals are great and effective if taught, reinforced by the community/culture AND practiced by all parties.
My wife’s best friend recently came back from Africa after a stint with the Peace Corps.

Sad, but true. Island Oak has it right. She reports pretty much the same.
 
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fix:
So, in your opinion those dumb Africans are not smart enough, or brave enough, to learn the moral law?
Please see above and don’t ever assume that I equate youth or a lack of opportunity or access to education as “dumb.” I would no more condemn these young women’s bodies for their lack of information about health care than I would their souls if they never in their lives hear the name of Jesus.
 
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jlw:
My wife’s best friend recently came back from Africa after a stint with the Peace Corps.

Sad, but true. Island Oak has it right. She reports pretty much the same.
During a year of typical condom use, 14 out of 100 women will become pregnant. Still want to rely on condems preventing AIDS?
 
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