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INRI
Guest
Perry5 said:
Whatever you say, Perry5…
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Whatever you say, Perry5…
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Brad
Guest
Perry5 said:
I guess I would have to agree with you as your statement is largely unintelligible as it pertains to my quote.
Do you actually have a coherent argument or debate regarding my statment or are you simply satisfied to call me dumb for stating the truth?
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buffalo
Guest
Perry5 said:
Geez Perry,
If you spend enough time around here engaging you will find most posters here are anything but dumb. They will give you a run for your money.
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Perry5
Guest
Geez Perry,
If you spend enough time around here engaging you will find most posters here are anything but dumb. They will give you a run for your money.
Sounds good thats what makes it fun.
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HagiaSophia
Guest
tom.wineman said:
Is there a convent?
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Lisa_N
Guest
Perry5 said:
Apparently you were not raised on a farm. I was. Lambs do not follow shadows. They follow their mothers.
Lisa N
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StJeanneDArc
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Lisa N:
Thank you, Lisa! This was truly a zap from the Holy Spirit. I never realized how beautiful that metaphor was until now.
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springbreeze
Guest
Dear friends
CHASTITY … that applies in all walks of life and it is not wrong to be gay. The church doesn’t admonish the gay person or couple, it admonishes the lack of chastity.
Why do you draw a red line of hatred?
Love is to love your neighbour even so as they are not yourself. That’s not easy at all is it? not easy and I see how hard it is everytime I see posts of hatred like this.
Pick up your catechism and understand the meaning of chastity and then re-address your thoughts upon being gay.
There is one line applied to gay relationships in the bible and those are addressed to a lack of chastity. Further than this St Paul talks about the very same thing, promiscuousness, infidelity, fornication, sexual relations outside of marriage. This is the sin! You don’t even know if a gay person may though they show affection to their partner, refrain from sex and live as sister/sister brother/ brother.
If you would chase out every gay person from the pews of the church consider would Christ Jesus do that? No of course He wouldn’t, He would minister to them…and so should YOU
And although a person may not be able to make Eucharistic union with Christ Jesus, there is also a spiritual union to be made within the church. Are you not a sinner yourself and are you sins not as scarlet and awful in God’s sight as anyone else’s or are you better than your bretheren? Hmm or are you the Pharisee who stands there and says thank God I am not like this man, this homosexual? Or are you the man who admits their sins and admits we are all sinners and is rather a person of encouragement in Christ, A Barnabas???
Remember NO-ONE can come to Jesus unless the Father draw Him and He turns away NO-ONE who seeks Him.
God Bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
CHASTITY … that applies in all walks of life and it is not wrong to be gay. The church doesn’t admonish the gay person or couple, it admonishes the lack of chastity.
Why do you draw a red line of hatred?
Love is to love your neighbour even so as they are not yourself. That’s not easy at all is it? not easy and I see how hard it is everytime I see posts of hatred like this.
Pick up your catechism and understand the meaning of chastity and then re-address your thoughts upon being gay.
There is one line applied to gay relationships in the bible and those are addressed to a lack of chastity. Further than this St Paul talks about the very same thing, promiscuousness, infidelity, fornication, sexual relations outside of marriage. This is the sin! You don’t even know if a gay person may though they show affection to their partner, refrain from sex and live as sister/sister brother/ brother.
If you would chase out every gay person from the pews of the church consider would Christ Jesus do that? No of course He wouldn’t, He would minister to them…and so should YOU
And although a person may not be able to make Eucharistic union with Christ Jesus, there is also a spiritual union to be made within the church. Are you not a sinner yourself and are you sins not as scarlet and awful in God’s sight as anyone else’s or are you better than your bretheren? Hmm or are you the Pharisee who stands there and says thank God I am not like this man, this homosexual? Or are you the man who admits their sins and admits we are all sinners and is rather a person of encouragement in Christ, A Barnabas???
Remember NO-ONE can come to Jesus unless the Father draw Him and He turns away NO-ONE who seeks Him.
God Bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
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Lisa_N
Guest
Let’s see here…hatred? I have not seen hatred on this thread. I have seen some thoughtful posts on both sides regarding whether there is a biological basis for homosexuality. I have seen posts that indicate it is not charitable to ignore or tolerate deviant behavior as some kind of Christian act. And you should also not tolerate your own sins but acknowledge and work on them.
Why is it that the word “hatred” is used anytime someone points out that homosexual acts are biologically abnormal, unhealthy, and if you take your faith seriously an abomination. It is the truth. That does not mean you hate the person who is trapped in this way of life. But pretending that it’s healthy, life affirming or normal is just plain naive.
Please find a truly hateful post. I must have missed it.
Again NO ONE is saying that BEING a homosexual (or thinking you are) is an abomination if you are chaste, if you acknowledge the issue and pray for God’s help in overcoming the desires. What is being criticized is the watering down, the normalizing and the desensitizing toward a homosexual lifestyle. Now you might EXPECT this from the MSM but from the Catholic church?
One, the reality with respect to homosexual relationships amongst men is not only are they highly sexual but often promiscuous. I think you are naive to think the two men holding hands and eating dinner in the room festooned with rainbow sashes are living like two brothers. You have to face reality. These are relationships based on sex. They may develop into a different kind of affection but the instigation of the relationship is often sexual and the casual and anonymous sex within this community is quite well documented. We would not have had an AIDS epidemic if all the homosexuals had been living chastely would we?
And no, absolutely do not chase people from the pews. The people are not unwelcome and we are all God’s children. OTOH we shouldn’t tolerate or support sinful behavior whether that sinful behavior is homosexual activity, theft, lying, etc. For some reason homosexuals want their sin carved out as acceptable. Why is that?
I think we are all well aware we are sinners and we work on our sins. What at least I find incomprehensible is the idea that homosexual sex is a sin that should be taken off the list.
Lisa N
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springbreeze
Guest
Lisa N:
No what you are confusing is the state of being ‘homosexual’ with the actual act of ‘homosexual sex’ and even if someone committs that act that does not mean they are struck out of the church altogether. They may not be able to receive communion, but they may make spiritual communion within the church and this is the short-minded hatred i am opposed to, that hatred that rules people out of church because they sin, that is what i am opposed to!!!
This is the catholic church of saints and sinners is it not?
Personally I am not gay but I have gay catholic friends and to be honest in all other aspects I never met a better catholic, i wish i was so good a catholic as them.
Examine your own self before you would strike another out of God’s house. The church doesn’t strike gay catholics from it’s pews and neither should YOU
You are making sweeping statements in respect of those who possess no faith or desire no faith presently, just as the millions of promiscuous heretrosexual people who live in fornication. If they were our example then hell would reign on earth but they are not and neither should you look at what the gay population is doing by and large to form an opinion on the gay catholic just as the heretrosexual population by and large cannot be shown as a good example of the catholic population.
People have a skewed view and it has probably been skewed by the media
God Bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
Dear friend
No what you are confusing is the state of being ‘homosexual’ with the actual act of ‘homosexual sex’ and even if someone committs that act that does not mean they are struck out of the church altogether. They may not be able to receive communion, but they may make spiritual communion within the church and this is the short-minded hatred i am opposed to, that hatred that rules people out of church because they sin, that is what i am opposed to!!!
This is the catholic church of saints and sinners is it not?
Personally I am not gay but I have gay catholic friends and to be honest in all other aspects I never met a better catholic, i wish i was so good a catholic as them.
Examine your own self before you would strike another out of God’s house. The church doesn’t strike gay catholics from it’s pews and neither should YOU
You are making sweeping statements in respect of those who possess no faith or desire no faith presently, just as the millions of promiscuous heretrosexual people who live in fornication. If they were our example then hell would reign on earth but they are not and neither should you look at what the gay population is doing by and large to form an opinion on the gay catholic just as the heretrosexual population by and large cannot be shown as a good example of the catholic population.
People have a skewed view and it has probably been skewed by the media
God Bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
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rlg94086
Guest
Dear springbreeze,
Most of the posters on this thread have clearly distinguished the sin from the sinner, so I think your “red line of hate” comment is off base.
The problem is that “gay” denotes a lifestyle identity, not the disorder of same-sex attraction. That lifestyle is incompatible with Church teaching. As I said to another poster:
As far as your chastity comment, I have wondered whether someone struggling with homosexuality could live in a celibate (chastity, in this case, equals celibacy) relationship with someone of the same gender. I’m assuming this would be okay, but pretty unusual and very difficult. If it were me, I would think I would have better luck going it alone.
God Bless,
Robert.
springbreeze:
Most of the posters on this thread have clearly distinguished the sin from the sinner, so I think your “red line of hate” comment is off base.
The problem is that “gay” denotes a lifestyle identity, not the disorder of same-sex attraction. That lifestyle is incompatible with Church teaching. As I said to another poster:
We need to welcome people struggling with this disorder, pray with them and help them overcome it. “Accepting them for who they are” is a false love. If there was a group identifying themselves as “kleptos” who live a life of thievery because “they were born that way”(i.e. with a disordered desire to steal from people), would we embrace their lifestyle? No. We would still love them, but we would want to help them overcome their propensity to sin.
As far as your chastity comment, I have wondered whether someone struggling with homosexuality could live in a celibate (chastity, in this case, equals celibacy) relationship with someone of the same gender. I’m assuming this would be okay, but pretty unusual and very difficult. If it were me, I would think I would have better luck going it alone.
God Bless,
Robert.
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GloriaPatri4
Guest
Lisa N:
There is another great book regarding this issue. “Sisters in Crisis” The Tragic Unraveling of Women’s Religious Communities by Ann Carey
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springbreeze
Guest
Dear friends
You are judging gay people by your own premise and it is not even the premise of the church.
The church does not condemn the gay person nor the gay relationship as long as it is chaste.
Marriage is not for gay people as they cannot procreate…end of that subject
So what is your problem?? You have those without faith who desire to hijack marriage and profess themselves in footing with the married, well this is definitely not permissable and is sinful and wrong.
You have to look at what the church defines as chaste in all walks of life. These people are not disordered just as someone is born a certain way, would you desire to eradicate them, this is as bad as abortion!!!
If you know that they are baptised and Christ resides in their soul as it does in yours rather than persecute repeatedly this population you would open your arms and welcome them to spiritual union with Christ Jesus within the church. Otherwise mercy and kindness is lacking
God Bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
You are judging gay people by your own premise and it is not even the premise of the church.
The church does not condemn the gay person nor the gay relationship as long as it is chaste.
Marriage is not for gay people as they cannot procreate…end of that subject
So what is your problem?? You have those without faith who desire to hijack marriage and profess themselves in footing with the married, well this is definitely not permissable and is sinful and wrong.
You have to look at what the church defines as chaste in all walks of life. These people are not disordered just as someone is born a certain way, would you desire to eradicate them, this is as bad as abortion!!!
If you know that they are baptised and Christ resides in their soul as it does in yours rather than persecute repeatedly this population you would open your arms and welcome them to spiritual union with Christ Jesus within the church. Otherwise mercy and kindness is lacking
God Bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
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springbreeze
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StJeanneDArc
Guest
Teresa, what are we to make of this:
I highlighted the word couple because it shows that these are two women who want their sin and their Church too. There is a ministry for homosexuals who want to live chastely–it’s called Courage. I’ve never actually been to a Courage meeting, but I daresay there’s no hand-holding, rainbow sashes, rainbow banners or pairing off as “couples”. Furthermore, use of the word “gay” has political as well as moral connotations. It generally means a homosexual who is committing homosexual acts.
So, yes, we do rightfully object to this “ministry” which doesn’t serve these people’s immortal souls, but rather their all-too-human need to normalize their sin.
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springbreeze
Guest
Dear friends
If you honestly think this is a disease that people can be cured of then you are sorely mistaken.
Infact no-one knows the cause of homosexuality, not one person alive has fathomed it, so you cannot sit and tell me you have the market cornered and you know all the solutions to it if indeed it is something that needs a solution.
Do you not know the corporal works of mercy? Not pertaining to taking someone a glass of water, but to lead them to Christ, if you keep them outside of the church how do you hope to achieve this?
What brings any soul to God but the Father who draws them to Himself in, by and through the Son Christ Jesus?
If you can audibly say keep gay people from being welcomed and invited into the church…well then forget your corporal works of mercy.
If I had to trade my gay friend for any other person I would ask God to keep her my friend above any other. I have seen such love and mercy in her heart that exceeds many other so-called good catholics.
Ashamed? I would be ashamed to deny her and I will never deny her. She is my friend in Christ Jesus.
You want the whole journey of faith in an instant (an all or nothing) not remembering that this journey takes a lifetime.
God Bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
If you honestly think this is a disease that people can be cured of then you are sorely mistaken.
Infact no-one knows the cause of homosexuality, not one person alive has fathomed it, so you cannot sit and tell me you have the market cornered and you know all the solutions to it if indeed it is something that needs a solution.
Do you not know the corporal works of mercy? Not pertaining to taking someone a glass of water, but to lead them to Christ, if you keep them outside of the church how do you hope to achieve this?
What brings any soul to God but the Father who draws them to Himself in, by and through the Son Christ Jesus?
If you can audibly say keep gay people from being welcomed and invited into the church…well then forget your corporal works of mercy.
If I had to trade my gay friend for any other person I would ask God to keep her my friend above any other. I have seen such love and mercy in her heart that exceeds many other so-called good catholics.
Ashamed? I would be ashamed to deny her and I will never deny her. She is my friend in Christ Jesus.
You want the whole journey of faith in an instant (an all or nothing) not remembering that this journey takes a lifetime.
God Bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
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StJeanneDArc
Guest
Why do you think we’re denying homosexuals and don’t want to lead them to Christ? I want to lead homosexuals to Christ, but that can’t be done if they persist in willful denial of a sin (in this case a very serious one).
I know some nice “gay” people, too. There’s probably some nice prostitutes as well.
Would it be appropriate to serve booze at an AA meeting? No, because these meetings are for people who want to give up the booze. You can’t pretend you’re ministering to homosexuals while accepting them as “gays”, which implies that their living the lifestyle.
Sigh! I wonder if Ken/Zoot has made a reappearance with a new personality.
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NightRider
Guest
Teresa, this is a beautiful post. I also have a few gay friends who are Catholics and they are some of the most compassionate people I have ever known. Nonetheless, much hatred is directed at them, by people who feel threatened by their homosexuality.
My adoptive mother was gay. When I was in seventh grade the “vigilantes” in our small town burned our house down when they discovered my mother’s orientation. A few years later, in another city, I was harassed out of my highschool, all because some very mean students found out about my mother’s orientation. Our car was egged and damaged. When I transferred to another highschool some more students heard about my mother and many of them wouldn’t even speak to me, even though I am not gay. Several of my friends were forced by their Catholic parents to sever their friendships with me. Homophobia is a cancer whose only cure is re-education. That is a powerful ministry! Thank God for the Catholics who pursue that ministry and stop homophobia right in its tracks! Homophobia has killed people and those good sisters know that.
Thank you for speaking up, Teresa. I, for one, appreciate it immensely. There is way too much ignorance about homosexuality in the world. God bless you, dear!
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Inkman
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Shheesh springbreeze, you keep saying that over and over as if someone here might not realize it. Anyone who is an informed Catholic knows this! I don’t see any posts here condeming anyone one here who is gay of being unexcepatable. Its the sexual acts of same sex relations that are the problem, we know this…let it go.
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