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buffalo
Guest
There is a huge difference between the “gay” lifestyle and homosexuality. The “gay” agenda pushes this in your face and wants us to accept and embrace this sinful lifestyle. .
- Status
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Brad
Guest
Lisa N:
Very insightful.
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Brad
Guest
You make an accusation here with your first statment ("confusing state of being “homosexual” with act of sex) that you then immediately refute yourself with your backtracking in the following statments (“even IF they were engaging in sex it would be ok”).
You cannot obtain communion, spiritual or otherwise, while you are participating in and promoting grave sin with no remorse or repentance. Jesus Christ said we would be united by Him, who is Truth - and when we act in obstinantly in rejection to this Truth, we are not in communion with Him.
That is not hatred. That is theology according to God Himself.
It sure is. But it was founded by an individual that would sooner die a heinous death of enormous pain and humiliation than say that sins were ok.
If they really are chase, they may be terrific Catholics. If they are not and claim to be “gay”, then they reject the Church’s teaching outright. This is not “good”.
This is more self-righteous preaching than you usually find here. You compare those that protest the acceptance of homosexual sin to Pharisees and then you turn around and do exactly what the Pharisees did to Jesus Christ. The Pharisees told Jesus - How dare you change the law, How dare you point out our sins - How dare you try to say we are not part of God’s kingdom.
The “gay” population by and large is multiple times more promiscuous than the heterosexual population. This is statisically proven. Further the homosexual agenda is attempting to normalize homosexuality as just another family structure both outside and within the Church. We have every right to condemn this attempt to trump the first and most fundamental covenant that God instituted with man and woman for their salvation. We have every right to stand up against the attempted normalization of sexual sins.
You mean the media that glorifies sexual sin and homosexuality and bashing of the Catholic Church? Yes, you are right.
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Brad
Guest
Nobody is persecuting anyone. Please provide some proof for your rhetoric.
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Brad
Guest
Oh how the tune changes when the facts get in the way.
Why is it that Repartive Therapy has as high a success rate in curing people of homoseuxality as any other mental disorder?
1/3 are completely cure. 1/3 are able to live without the disorder but still have some tendencies. 1/3 quit the therapy. It is the same for other mental illnesses.
If nobody has fathomed it then what do you make of the people that are happily married with children and no desire for the homosexual lifestyle they once engaged in.
The fact that you keep shifting directions on how to rationalize the sin of homosexual behavior leads me to conclude you are part of the agenda promotion and will take whatever track you can get to win.
If you lead them to Christ under false pretenses then you have done more harm to their soul than good.
The Father draws them to Himself by showing them where they are wrong and how to heal their iniquities. This is done through repentance, acceptance of forgiveness from God, and loving God as much as we possibly can. It is not done by telling God that you reject His plan for the human race.
Nobody has said this yet except you.
If she is living in obstinant and unrepentant sin and you do not help her out of it, then your friendship may be temporarily good for you but it does nothing for her eternal soul.
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Brad
Guest
Naaah. Ken/Zoot didn’t have the theological or spiritual justifications, only secular ones.
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puzzleannie
Guest
Homosexuals are welcome in every Catholic Church in the world. To the extent that they are sinners, either by reason of the disorder they suffer from, or from any other cause inherent in the human condition, they are welcome to the healing offered by Jesus Christ in the sacraments. They are welcome under precisely the same conditions as everyone else is-accept the gift of faith, request baptism (or have it requested for you if you are under the age of reason), prepare for the other sacraments through conversion and confession, partake in the liturgical and sacramental life of the Church. Homosexuality describes one of a myriad of disorders, inherited with original sin from our first parents, that disposes us to sin. We are all disordered in this way in that we all suffer from concupiscence, the persistent stubborn desire for sinful choices of sense gratification over the joys of the spirit promised by God. None of us can hope to overcome this without God’s grace, won for us by the sacrificial action of Jesus Christ.
For pastors, and those involved in pastoral ministry, to lie to the faithful, and promise that somehow they can receive those graces without conversion, confession and absolution is grievous and has been condemned by Christ himself, when he told them it would be better for them to have a millstone tied around the neck and be thrown into the eternal pit of fire than to lead one of His little ones astray. this is the fate awaiting pastors who counsel any of the faithful that they are exempt from seeking the saving grace of Jesus Christ.
For pastors, and those involved in pastoral ministry, to lie to the faithful, and promise that somehow they can receive those graces without conversion, confession and absolution is grievous and has been condemned by Christ himself, when he told them it would be better for them to have a millstone tied around the neck and be thrown into the eternal pit of fire than to lead one of His little ones astray. this is the fate awaiting pastors who counsel any of the faithful that they are exempt from seeking the saving grace of Jesus Christ.
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Brad
Guest
“Homophobia” doesn’t hurt people. People that sin hurt people. The Catholic Church recognizes that sin hurts people. If you want to help people that are being hurt then you help stop the sin. You don’t accept the sin.
Did the absense of stopping the sin under the premise of “stopping homophobia” hurt people in the Church? According to the hundreds of lawsuits against the Church it sure has.
Is it fair to the men and women that gave their life savings to the Church to see these life savings go out the window because priests in their diocese rejected homophobia and instead acted out on their “unchangeable” desires by preying on impressionable young adults?
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springbreeze
Guest
Dear friend
Beautifully said!
I’m with you on everything you say.
God Bless you and much love and peace to you
Teresa
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Brad
Guest
I am determined not to call people bigots that say homosexual behavior is a sin. Can we, like Jesus, refrain from the name calling?Cool! We are in cahoots!
I suppose I think I would trust my religious and just try and be ‘Christ-like’.
Homosexuals are a challenge! I am determined no to be a bigot.
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Brad
Guest
Nope. We need to read the Catechism and follow what it says, not come up with our own conclustions, revisons, or interpretations.
It sounds to me like your definition of “passing judgement” would include reading that particular section of the Catechism to them.
Am I correct or do you read this entire section to the “homosexual couple”? Because, if you do (and don’t add anything to it), the only conclusion that can be made is that what they are doing is not ok.
Just an example - If you believe you were born to rape little girls, how would you come to terms with your sexuality? Should you be told that is wrong by the Church? It can be pretty lonely for you in jail. Perhaps you would never come to terms with it.
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Brad
Guest
Do you tell them what they are doing is gravely wrong and a mortal sin? If so, then you are doing nothing differently than what people here are suggesting.
By the way, it is still the Eucharist if you receive in a state of mortal sin - that is why it is another mortal sin to do so. Our sins do not take Jesus away. Jesus takes away our sins.
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Brad
Guest
QUOTE=puzzleannie]Homosexuals are welcome in every Catholic Church in the world. To the extent that they are sinners, either by reason of the disorder they suffer from, or from any other cause inherent in the human condition, they are welcome to the healing offered by Jesus Christ in the sacraments. They are welcome under precisely the same conditions as everyone else is-accept the gift of faith, request baptism (or have it requested for you if you are under the age of reason), prepare for the other sacraments through conversion and confession, partake in the liturgical and sacramental life of the Church. Homosexuality describes one of a myriad of disorders, inherited with original sin from our first parents, that disposes us to sin. We are all disordered in this way in that we all suffer from concupiscence, the persistent stubborn desire for sinful choices of sense gratification over the joys of the spirit promised by God. None of us can hope to overcome this without God’s grace, won for us by the sacrificial action of Jesus Christ.
For pastors, and those involved in pastoral ministry, to lie to the faithful, and promise that somehow they can receive those graces without conversion, confession and absolution is grievous and has been condemned by Christ himself, when he told them it would be better for them to have a millstone tied around the neck and be thrown into the eternal pit of fire than to lead one of His little ones astray. this is the fate awaiting pastors who counsel any of the faithful that they are exempt from seeking the saving grace of Jesus Christ.
Well said.
For pastors, and those involved in pastoral ministry, to lie to the faithful, and promise that somehow they can receive those graces without conversion, confession and absolution is grievous and has been condemned by Christ himself, when he told them it would be better for them to have a millstone tied around the neck and be thrown into the eternal pit of fire than to lead one of His little ones astray. this is the fate awaiting pastors who counsel any of the faithful that they are exempt from seeking the saving grace of Jesus Christ.
Well said.
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mercygate
Guest
Au contraire. This is the whole point of the charity of expecting people who are in a state of mortal sin to refrain from receiving the Eucharist.
From the Baltimore Catechism:
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Lisa_N
Guest
Isn’t that relativism? I thought the idea of Church doctrine is that we don’t decide what it says but accept what it says. I think it’s pretty clear how homosexual ACTS are seen through the lens of either Christianity or Judaism. They are not affirmed.Sorry!
I think they would need to study the Catachism and reach their own conclusions about what it says and why it says it.?
And I agree that this SHOULD be an issue between a person and God. If homosexuals were content to engaged in their ‘gravely disordered condition’ without involving greater society I would have absolutely nothing to say on the subject. That they are trying to CHANGE the rest of us to suit THEIR desires and disordered thinking is the issue. What happens in someone’s bedroom is between them and their partner and God. I really do not think I should be involved in other people’s private lives. What I DO care about is the attempt to normalize and equalize homosexual pairings with heterosexual married couples. They want to get “married” they want to borrow, breed or buy children and bring the children up to think that homosexuality is normal.
The public issue is what concerns me. If someone wants to have sex with a dead deer in the woods, well that’s their choice. But were these same people to want this behavior to be recognized, supported and approved is a completely different kettle of fish…albeit just as smelly.
Do you understand the difference?
Look I have NO DOUBT that homoesexuals are every bit as capable of love as any of the rest of us. I know homosexual partners who deeply care for each other. I have several homosexual friends whom I adore and I know that the feeling is mutual. It is not a question of whether they can love, but whether that love is to be recognized on par with heterosexual married love. I have female friends that I love very much but we have no sexual feelings for each other. It’s not a matter of two people of the same sex deeply caring about each other, it’s a matter of the sexual aspects of same sex partnerships being questionable.
And sure I know it’s tough to push back these strong desires and like any other ‘addiction’ homosexuality is very hard to cure. But you are never going to cure or prevent a problem unless you acknowledge it IS a problem. There is NOTHING healthy about homosexual activity. Whether or not you believe in God, the reality is that our body parts are made for specific functions and using them otherwise tends to create problems. I can use my fist as a hammer but it’s neither a good hammer nor painfree as a practice.
I don’t see a lot of outrage regarding private acts between adult homosexuals (pedastry and pedophelia are different of course). Where I DO see outrage is in the homosexual activists’ demands that we accept, condone, even celebrate disordered thinking and actions. I do not see a reason to march in a parade to say you engage in sodomy and darned proud of it. I don’t see the rationale of demanding that homosexuals be allowed to be Boy Scout masters. I don’t want to see homosexuals (or heterosexuals) engaged in public displays of sexual affection. I do not see the reason that homosexuals should be ‘married.’ A registered partnership to protect both parties’ finances, access to each other, etc is fine. But that’s not what activists want. They want church weddings with champagne toasts and a passionate kiss at the end of the ceremony.
IOW my main objection is the PUBLIC activism. What these folks do in the bedroom is between them and God.
Lisa N
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INRI
Guest
Homosexual men have much higher rates of alcoholism and drug abuse compared to the general population. They also have much higher rates of suicide. Because of the rampant STD’s, including AIDS, homosexual men have lower life expectancies. Female homosexuals have higher rates of cervical cancer as well. This is undoubtedly related to a high rate of transmission of the Human Papilloma Virus (HPV). The promiscuity of homosexual men is well documented (something like an AVERAGE of 30 sexual partners per year). As a result, the relationships formed among gay men are less stable and even “stable” relationships are likely to incorporate some aspect of outside sexual experience.
It is a lack of charity, not a display of charity, that allows for this lifestyle to be celebrated and affirmed. It is tantamount to condemning a person to a life of misery, ostracism, premature death, and a state of constant mortal sin.
I went to a talk recently given by a man who some of you say doesn’t exist, a former homosexual. He is now married and has children. He said that one of the greatest gifts of his conversion, if you would want to use the phrase, is that he no longer has to think of sex as something dirty. He had been accustomed to thinking of it this way for reasons that, I hope, don’t need further illustration.
Courage doesn’t deny the powerful nature of same-sex attraction and that it can be persistant once a man or women exits the gay lifestyle. To that organization’s credit, it teaches those with persistent homosexual attraction to live chastely within the Church’s teaching. Those who feel they can make the leap to a heterosexual life are provided counseling that enables them to do so. Despite what the gay lobby would have you think, there are literally hundreds of thousands of former homosexuals in the US alone who have made just such a change and are now much happier than they ever could have been in the misnomered “gay lifestyle”.
It is a lack of charity, not a display of charity, that allows for this lifestyle to be celebrated and affirmed. It is tantamount to condemning a person to a life of misery, ostracism, premature death, and a state of constant mortal sin.
I went to a talk recently given by a man who some of you say doesn’t exist, a former homosexual. He is now married and has children. He said that one of the greatest gifts of his conversion, if you would want to use the phrase, is that he no longer has to think of sex as something dirty. He had been accustomed to thinking of it this way for reasons that, I hope, don’t need further illustration.
Courage doesn’t deny the powerful nature of same-sex attraction and that it can be persistant once a man or women exits the gay lifestyle. To that organization’s credit, it teaches those with persistent homosexual attraction to live chastely within the Church’s teaching. Those who feel they can make the leap to a heterosexual life are provided counseling that enables them to do so. Despite what the gay lobby would have you think, there are literally hundreds of thousands of former homosexuals in the US alone who have made just such a change and are now much happier than they ever could have been in the misnomered “gay lifestyle”.
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TarAshly
Guest
Lisa N:
Spring Breeze: let me just say you are a breath of fresh air in these forums that occasionally get smogged out.
Lisa N take a deep breathe and count to ten. My goodness. this was my point and basis when i said that i was afraid of people like you running the church “you dont agree with me so your wrong and ignorant and avoiding the issue.” back off the girl a little and read what she has to say for once. if its a monologue its on your end my friend.
Spring Breeze: let me just say you are a breath of fresh air in these forums that occasionally get smogged out.
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TarAshly
Guest
Lisa N said:
Sure they are. its called Hollywood and professional sports.
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INRI
Guest
While we’re on the topic of sex and chastity, just take a look a the following article:
Violent sex ‘is killing the Tasmanian devil’
By Nick Squires in Sydney
(Filed: 27/01/2005)
A disease that has devastated the Tasmanian devil population is probably being spread by the animal’s boisterous sex life, Australian scientists believe.
The devil has been wiped out in many parts of the island over the past three years.
The number of “nature’s janitor”, as the animal is nicknamed, has fallen from about 150,000 to less than half that, with four out of every five dying in some areas.
Researchers believe that the animals’ habit of fighting over decaying carrion and engaging in violent sexual foreplay accounts for the speed at which the disease has spread.
The illness, noticed about five years ago, causes hideous facial tumours that leave the devils unable to see or eat.
Just remember that the next time you’re fighting over carrion…:tsktsk:
Violent sex ‘is killing the Tasmanian devil’
By Nick Squires in Sydney
(Filed: 27/01/2005)
A disease that has devastated the Tasmanian devil population is probably being spread by the animal’s boisterous sex life, Australian scientists believe.
The devil has been wiped out in many parts of the island over the past three years.
The number of “nature’s janitor”, as the animal is nicknamed, has fallen from about 150,000 to less than half that, with four out of every five dying in some areas.
Researchers believe that the animals’ habit of fighting over decaying carrion and engaging in violent sexual foreplay accounts for the speed at which the disease has spread.
The illness, noticed about five years ago, causes hideous facial tumours that leave the devils unable to see or eat.
Just remember that the next time you’re fighting over carrion…:tsktsk:
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FightingFat
Guest
Lisa, thank you for your intelligent reply, it’s given me lots to think about!
I wonder if being homosexual is like being born without and arm- or if it is a ‘fashion statement’.
Mark (INRI)- do you treat homosexuals? What is your opinion on their genesis?
I wonder if being homosexual is like being born without and arm- or if it is a ‘fashion statement’.
Mark (INRI)- do you treat homosexuals? What is your opinion on their genesis?
- Status