How God could be omnipresent if He is spiritual?

[Bahman]

And what we’re trying to tell you is that these ‘errors’ you perceive are largely a result of a false premise, and/or your inability to look at things in a slightly different way.

You insist on understanding things that the greatest theological minds of our world cannot grasp.

St. Thomas Aquinas, a genius among theologians, was shown a vision of heaven… so overwhelming and hard to grasp was it, that he never wrote again… so aware was he of his own inability to understand that he didn’t dare try. And he was a genius. A Doctor (philosophically) of the Church.

St. Thomas Aquinas could not understand or formulate these things and he was a genius.

So the rest of us shouldn’t expect to.

But this genius also accepted what he couldn’t understand. That’s faith. Informed faith.

We are given intelligence so we are responsible for what we accept as faith. I think we can understand a lot if we set our minds free and search the truth. Creating intelligent beings with disability to understand everything is not fair. It is like to leaving intelligent beings in state of despair. A God who is Love would never do that. We have to be dare to take our spiritual journey alone. We could be either a follower but you have to be sure that you are following the right faith. It is all up to you. What do you think?

 

[Bahman]

This is a Catholic forum Bahman, all this prophet business sounds very Islamic. You trying to tell us something?
Yppop

I mean that you need to check all things which are produce by members of church because they are human being and can do mistake. A system of thought must be 100% correct to accept it as a faith. This means that you need revelation in absence of a divine being.

 

[SilverShadow22]

We are given intelligence so we are responsible for what we accept as faith. I think we can understand a lot if we set our minds free and search the truth. Creating intelligent beings with disability to understand everything is not fair. It is like to leaving intelligent beings in state of despair. A God who is Love would never do that. We have to be dare to take our spiritual journey alone. We could be either a follower but you have to be sure that you are following the right faith. It is all up to you. What do you think?

I ‘grasp’ things in the sense that I grasp complex math. I learned just enough geometry, just enough physics, and brushed against just enough algebra that I accept it without fully understanding it.

I can calculate the circumference of a circle with minimal trouble, but finding the surface area of a sphere? Help!

I know the basic rules of gravity, mass, and acceleration, and yet I’d have to look up the lists of forces and their formulas to sit down and do anything useful with it. A really smart person or a real physicist would just bang out the calculations, no problem. I’m not that smart, and I know it. That’s just how it is.

Algebra makes no sense at all to me; no one ever explained it in a way I can understand. However, I accept there are people smarter than me who understand it without trouble. I accept that it has use and meaning in a realm I can’t comprehend. It doesn’t bother me much that I don’t grasp it.

But I grasp enough that I believe the rest. I grasp enough to be sure that it’s true. I understand enough to trust the people who do understand it.

And it is no different with the faith. I can know and trust a person without knowing every single thing about them. Eventually you reach a point in which you trust the sample you do know as representative of the parts you don’t. And you simply proceed.

 

[Vico]

…

I can calculate the circumference of a circle with minimal trouble, but finding the surface area of a sphere? Help!
…

Spherical Surface Area = 4 * 3.14 * R**2

 

[Aloysium]

We are given intelligence so we are responsible for what we accept as faith. I think we can understand a lot if we set our minds free and search the truth. Creating intelligent beings with disability to understand everything is not fair. It is like to leaving intelligent beings in state of despair. A God who is Love would never do that. We have to be dare to take our spiritual journey alone. We could be either a follower but you have to be sure that you are following the right faith. It is all up to you. What do you think?

God is not about power, but of love.
All the intellectual brilliance, without love, is nonsense.
The spiritual journey is one of becoming Christ-like.
Jesus is the embodiment of love.

He teaches us to be humble servants; they are the first.

The suffering that accompanies any disability may lead to despair.
Usually it is because of the impact that they have on us, socially.
Loving relations soothe the pain, and give us purpose and meaning.

In God, we find peace and the strength to carry on.

Intelligence is a gift, it is a blessing to be dispensed as God chooses.
His love, which is for all of us, is unconditional.
We come in all shapes and sizes, each of us with our own particular blessings. ,
What we don’t have is meant to teach us all humility.
There but for the grace of God, go we all.

The ultimate, supreme, final truth is love - the giving of ourselves to God and one another.
It does not take a genius to know that.
It is pride and selfishness that prevents us from accepting the simple truth at the heart of existence.

 

[DCNBILL]

Revelation is always private. Why they don’t declare that they are prophet.

Actually the revelation of the Incarnation was very public but not all chose to see.

Yes, I did sin but I was innocent when I was a kid. So who is fault? God, my parents, my society, etc/

So you have not sinned since childhood, and if you were above the age of reason then your sin is your own.

How they could help you when you do sin privately?

All confessed sin is forgiven in Confession.

 

[DCNBILL]

I use knowledge, logic and wisdom to determine that a faith is true or not. Moreover a faith is either 100% correct or it is false.

Note that you have nothing that God did not give you. This post explains a lot about your views, you believe you are the measure of truth, you believe that you are god.

 

[PRmerger]

I use knowledge, logic and wisdom to determine that a faith is true or not.

And I, too, use “knowledge, logic and wisdom” to determine whether a faith is true or not.

So now what’s your solution when 2 folks, using “knowledge, logic and wisdom” disagree on a particular theology?

Moreover a faith is either 100% correct or it is false.

This is contrary to logic.

I’m certain you’ve come across textbooks in your years of education that contained an error or two.

Using your paradigm, you would have to say that everything in this textbook is completely false:

kxan.com/2015/10/09/austin-student-discovers-major-error-in-geography-textbook/

So are you prepared to assert that there really wasn’t an Atlantic Slave Trade? Or that it did not occur between the 16th and 19th centuries? Or that there is no such thing as plantations?

Really, Bahman?

Do you see how your assertion is soooo…contrary to logic?

Certainly one teaching can be wrong without dismissal of the entire narrative, yeah?

 

[SilverShadow22]

Spherical Surface Area = 4 * 3.14 * R**2

Though it was rhetorical… I thank you nonetheless.

 

[Bahman]

I ‘grasp’ things in the sense that I grasp complex math. I learned just enough geometry, just enough physics, and brushed against just enough algebra that I accept it without fully understanding it.

I can calculate the circumference of a circle with minimal trouble, but finding the surface area of a sphere? Help!

I know the basic rules of gravity, mass, and acceleration, and yet I’d have to look up the lists of forces and their formulas to sit down and do anything useful with it. A really smart person or a real physicist would just bang out the calculations, no problem. I’m not that smart, and I know it. That’s just how it is.

Algebra makes no sense at all to me; no one ever explained it in a way I can understand. However, I accept there are people smarter than me who understand it without trouble. I accept that it has use and meaning in a realm I can’t comprehend. It doesn’t bother me much that I don’t grasp it.

But I grasp enough that I believe the rest. I grasp enough to be sure that it’s true. I understand enough to trust the people who do understand it.

And it is no different with the faith. I can know and trust a person without knowing every single thing about them. Eventually you reach a point in which you trust the sample you do know as representative of the parts you don’t. And you simply proceed.

Fair enough. What do think of immaterial definition where spiritual is a subcategory of it: What is immaterial has no extension in space, no size, shape, parts, or quantity, no mass or weight. Isn’t it the definition of nothingness? Is this hard for you to understand?

 

[Vico]

Fair enough. What do think of immaterial definition where spiritual is a subcategory of it: What is immaterial has no extension in space, no size, shape, parts, or quantity, no mass or weight. Isn’t it the definition of nothingness? Is this hard for you to understand?

The immaterial soul exists so it does not meet the definition of nothingness.

Colling Dictionary
nothingness (noun) 1. the state or condition of being nothing; nonexistence

Modern Catholic Dictionary

Immaterial

Definition

Not having matter or the properties of matter. Negatively it is the noncorporeal; positively the spiritual. What is immaterial has no extension in space, no size, shape, parts, or quantity, no mass or weight. It is nonmeasurable reality. Three kinds of immateriality are known to Christian thought:

• Some beings are partially without matter but essentially dependent on matter for their existence and operation, e.g., the power of sensation.
• Others are essentially spiritual and independent of matter for their existence but in this life depend on matter for their operation, e.g., the human soul in its activity of knowing and loving.
• Still others are totally immaterial because they are independent of matter for their existence and activity. Thus the angels, who are pure spirits, whose immateriality is a created gift, and God, who is immaterial by his essence.

 

[Bahman]

God is not about power, but of love.
All the intellectual brilliance, without love, is nonsense.
The spiritual journey is one of becoming Christ-like.
Jesus is the embodiment of love.

He teaches us to be humble servants; they are the first.

The suffering that accompanies any disability may lead to despair.
Usually it is because of the impact that they have on us, socially.
Loving relations soothe the pain, and give us purpose and meaning.

In God, we find peace and the strength to carry on.

Intelligence is a gift, it is a blessing to be dispensed as God chooses.
His love, which is for all of us, is unconditional.
We come in all shapes and sizes, each of us with our own particular blessings. ,
What we don’t have is meant to teach us all humility.
There but for the grace of God, go we all.

The ultimate, supreme, final truth is love - the giving of ourselves to God and one another.
It does not take a genius to know that.
It is pride and selfishness that prevents us from accepting the simple truth at the heart of existence.

These things I understand although they are off topic. Here I provide a definition immaterial which spiritual is subcategory of it: What is immaterial has no extension in space, no size, shape, parts, or quantity, no mass or weight. Do you think that this is definition of nothingness? What is your definition of spiritual?

 

[Bahman]

Actually the revelation of the Incarnation was very public but not all chose to see.

Or they were not convinced.

So you have not sinned since childhood, and if you were above the age of reason then your sin is your own.

Committing sins is partially due to our nature and the reset is due to society that we live. Why we should live here when God is all powerful? Why we should have be given a nature to sin?

All confessed sin is forgiven in Confession.

I don’t think so if that is true if you hurt someone?

 

[Bahman]

Note that you have nothing that God did not give you.

That is not true. I accomplished a lot.

This post explains a lot about your views, you believe you are the measure of truth, you believe that you are god.

I said that knowledge, logic and wisdom are only tools I have in disposal to understand the truth and find what is right and what is wrong. You can call that god, I call is simple human being.

 

[Bahman]

And I, too, use “knowledge, logic and wisdom” to determine whether a faith is true or not.

So now what’s your solution when 2 folks, using “knowledge, logic and wisdom” disagree on a particular theology?

One is right and one is wrong. Or maybe we just take different journeys in our spiritual lives.

This is contrary to logic.

That is not correct. A faith must be error free since it is work of God.

I’m certain you’ve come across textbooks in your years of education that contained an error or two.

Using your paradigm, you would have to say that everything in this textbook is completely false:

We learn things and we could be wrong. We discuss things and one could be wrong. That is very different than faith which is work of God.

So are you prepared to assert that there really wasn’t an Atlantic Slave Trade? Or that it did not occur between the 16th and 19th centuries? Or that there is no such thing as plantations?

That is true that there was slavery and that is the human error.

Really, Bahman?

Do you see how your assertion is soooo…contrary to logic?

I don’t think so. A faith should be error free otherwise it is not work of God.

Certainly one teaching can be wrong without dismissal of the entire narrative, yeah?

No. Either we are set to be free and to get through our separate spiritual journeys or we have no freedom and have to be followers. Which one do you think to be correct? We are intelligent being so we can do things in our way. What do you think?

 

[Bahman]

The immaterial soul exists so it does not meet the definition of nothingness.

We have no way to show or prove that soul exists.

Colling Dictionary
nothingness (noun) 1. the state or condition of being nothing; nonexistence

That is a good definition.

Modern Catholic Dictionary

Immaterial

Definition

Not having matter or the properties of matter. Negatively it is the noncorporeal; positively the spiritual. What is immaterial has no extension in space, no size, shape, parts, or quantity, no mass or weight. It is nonmeasurable reality. Three kinds of immateriality are known to
​

That explain what a spiritual thing doesn’t have. It doesn’t tell you what spiritual thing has. Hence that is definition of nothingness.

Some beings are partially without matter but essentially dependent on matter for their existence and operation, e.g., the power of sensation.

That I agree. The other example is mind.

Others are essentially spiritual and independent of matter for their existence but in this life depend on matter for their operation, e.g., the human soul in its activity of knowing and loving.

I don’t know what is the use of soul when mind can be explained in term of brain activity. For example knowledge needs a form which can be explained in term of neurons wiring.

Still others are totally immaterial because they are independent of matter for their existence and activity. Thus the angels, who are pure spirits, whose immateriality is a created gift, and God, who is immaterial by his essence.

This I totally cannot understand given the definition of immaterial.​

 

[Vico]

We have no way to show or prove that soul exists.

That is a good definition.

That explain what a spiritual thing doesn’t have. It doesn’t tell you what spiritual thing has. Hence that is definition of nothingness.

That I agree. The other example is mind.

I don’t know what is the use of soul when mind can be explained in term of brain activity. For example knowledge needs a form which can be explained in term of neurons wiring.

This I totally cannot understand given the definition of immaterial.

The human spiritual soul exists, it is proven by the resurrections that were witnessed.

The soul has five categories of powers per St. Thomas Aquinas: the vegetative, the sentient, the appetitive, the motive, and the intellective powers. These powers are not quantitative parts in the sense that the soul is divided up into bits each of which performs various functions, but are power parts of the soul. some powers of the soul depend upon matter for their operations so are of the body/soul combination as a subject rather than being simply in the soul.

 

[Bahman]

The human spiritual soul exists, it is proven by the resurrections that were witnessed.

Resurrection if it is really happened only shows that there is a life after death. It doesn’t show that we have a soul. Moreover in a discussion we had before you mentioned that we forget everything upon death. How possibly Jesus could remember his disciplines then?

The soul has five categories of powers per St. Thomas Aquinas: **the vegetative, the sentient, the appetitive, the motive, and the intellective powers. **These powers are not quantitative parts in the sense that the soul is divided up into bits each of which performs various functions, but are power parts of the soul. some powers of the soul depend upon matter for their operations so are of the body/soul combination as a subject rather than being simply in the soul.

All the properties that you discussed (bold part) can be related to brain functioning since you could easily lose them by damaging your brain. So the key question is what the use of soul?

 

[Vico]

Resurrection if it is really happened only shows that there is a life after death. It doesn’t show that we have a soul. Moreover in a discussion we had before you mentioned that we forget everything upon death. How possibly Jesus could remember his disciplines then?

All the properties that you discussed (bold part) can be related to brain functioning since you could easily lose them by damaging your brain. So the key question is what the use of soul?

The wisdom of all experiences is held in the soul not in the brain. The soul is the source of will.

Jesus Christ resurrected his body by divine power. In resurrection any physical memory is restored by God as willed.

I think your philosophy is that of a materialist and that you think there are no human rational souls.

 

[PRmerger]

Moreover in a discussion we had before you mentioned that we forget everything upon death.

This is not a correct articulation of Catholic teaching, Bahman.